Are the Pats ready to deal Laurence Maroney?

[bucky]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

The person who wrote that article is a "Senior Writer". He should be demoted to "Coffee Boy" for writing garbage like that.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

Do you have 'I am a patriots homer' as a tattoo on you?

Maroney will do in 2009 what he has done for the past 3 years - Sporadic signs of productivity followed by north and south looking for holes that will never develop on the LOS until he gets tackled for a loss followed by a mixture of dancing falling down often in the backfield on the first hit and then entering the annual IR or weeks off for injury vacation.

If you expect a sudden resurgence,I suggest to look elsewhere or prepare to put your foot in your mouth again .... for a 4th consecutive season of futility,of course that 4.4 will be your excuse as another wasted season as our lead back will come and go - bank on it.

I'm curious how a guy gets 4.4 yards a carry while consistenly being tackled behind the LOS.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

Either way a person chooses to look at this argument, I think it's safe to say that if Maroney were truly as good as some people think, we probably would not be having this conversation. When's the last time you saw a "Should we trade Tom Brady" or a "Should we deal Wes Welker" thread? NEVER! I know I picked two of the best players we have as examples, but I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from.

The 4.4 ypc average that some are proudly touting means nothing, ultimately, because numbers, especially averages, can be extremely misleading. I think a more fair assessment would be if we looked at his situational statistics, and even yet, actual situational game footage. I think that would paint a more accurate picture of what we're trying to hash out.

Also, the fact is that any discussion of greatness (or even effectiveness) includes the discussion of injuries. One of the reasons why great players are often considered great and are able to amass the numbers that they do is because they can stay on the field. There are plenty of players across all sports who had the ability to be HOF players but failed to become so because their bodies couldn't hold up (Grant Hill/Penny Hardaway come to mind). Now, is it Maroney's fault that he's oft injured? Of course it isn't. But the fact is that he does miss significant time and he does, at times, seem to be scared to take contact as a result. The last thing you want out of a RB is someone who is afraid or unable to take punishment.

If Maroney goes on to rush for over 1,000 yds. and 8 or so TD's, everyone doubting him, myself included, will have to eat their words. I don't hate or dislike the guy and I acknowledge repeatedly that his skillset is off the charts, but he does not appear to be the answer for NE at this point in his career, not the way I'm sure they would like him to be. I hope you all can see that that's pretty fair.

We could go on and on, some of us like him and some don't.

Some expected a little more from him, some a lot more.

I think he deserves one last shot, if he doesn't play up to par in 09, more and more people will get on him. Plus his cap hit, etc benefits him. I was just saying I wouldn't be that shocked to draft a RB, that's all. And yesterday, my argument was that BJGE should make the 5 man RB committee, that was poked at too

Good call, Supafly. This is fair.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

Either way a person chooses to look at this argument, I think it's safe to say that if Maroney were truly as good as some people think, we probably would not be having this conversation. When's the last time you saw a "Should we trade Tom Brady" or a "Should we deal Wes Welker" thread? NEVER! I know I picked two of the best players we have as examples, but I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from.

The 4.4 ypc average that some are proudly touting means nothing, ultimately, because numbers, especially averages, can be extremely misleading. I think a more fair assessment would be if we looked at his situational statistics, and even yet, actual situational game footage. I think that would paint a more accurate picture of what we're trying to hash out.

Also, the fact is that in any discussion of greatness (or even effectiveness) includes the discussion of injuries. One of the reasons why great players are often considered great and are able to amass the numbers that they do is because they can stay on the field. There are plenty of players in across all sports who had the ability to be HOF players but failed to become so because their bodies couldn't hold up (Grant Hill/Penny Hardaway come to mind). Now, is it Maroney's fault that he's oft injured? Of course it isn't. But the fact is that he does miss significant time and he does, at times, seem to be scared to take contact as a result. The last thing you want out of a RB is someone who is afraid or unable to take punishment.

If Maroney goes on to rush for over 1,000 yds. and 8 or so TD's, everyone doubting him, myself included, will have to eat their words. I don't hate or dislike the guy and I acknowledge repeatedly that his skillset is off the charts, but he does not appear to be the answer for NE at this point in his career, not the way I'm sure they would like him to be. I hope you all can see that that's pretty fair.



Good call, Supafly. This is fair.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/186703-official-trade-brady-debate-thread-do-not-start-another-one.html

So much for your post....

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

Belioli had a brain cramp in 2006 drafting a thoroughbred to pull a plow...

Some of you really scream ESPN Board refugee.

The Patriots attempted to incorporate a zone blocking system in 2006 but the OL personnel could not accomplish that absent substantial personnel substitutions which proved to be too difficult to manage in game. The plan was scrapped following the pre season, and the decision to remain with the power blocking scheme that favored Dillon's style was made. Unfortunately, they also discovered 2005 was not an abherration, but rather Dillon was toast. Extending his contract was truly a mistake. Their plan for a divergent 2 back system was also toast.

By 2007 Maroney had already been injured attempting to run behind the power scheme. They "babied" him according to mediots who suddenly blamed him for not being something he was not drafted to be in Dillon's absence - Corey Dillon in his prime... Of course the guy Belioli signed to replace Dillon in the equation...quickly landed on IR himself. It appeared to make little difference until December rolled around as the passing offense was dominant. When it started to struggle down the stretch and into the playoffs, Maroney carried it. In the SB a fairly conscious decision was made not to utilize him in (or much of)the running game. Perhaps because they were relying on him to cover for a gimpy Hobbs in the return game, and they believed in favorable conditions the passing game could not be stopped.

In 2008 whatever injury was nagging Maroney finally landed him on IR with season ending surgery. In the what have you done for me lately league he is worthless...

Career Highlights - from the official team website

2006 Season

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2006 Finished second in the NFL with a 28.0-yard kickoff return avg. ... Led the team is rushing yards seven times in 2006 (vs. BUF, vs. DEN, at CIN, vs. IND, at GB, at JAX, at TEN) ... Recorded his first career NFL touchdown with a 1-yard run in the Patriots' 24-17 win over the N.Y. Jets (9/17/06) ... Named FedEx Ground Player of the Week and Diet Pepsi Rookie of the Week after registering his first career 100-yard rushing game in the Patriots' victory over Cincinnati (10/01/06) ... Named AFC Special Teams Player of the Week after returning two kickoffs for 100 yards, including a 74-yard return in the first quarter against Buffalo (10/22/06) ... Received the Patriots 12th Player Award.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2007 Season

In 2007, Maroney ran for 100 or more yards in four of his final six games, including two playoff contests. Of the top 10 single-game rushing totals by Patriots players this decade, Maroney cracked that list three times over a four-game span, totaling 156 yards against Miami (12/23/07) and following that up with back-to-back 122- yard performances against Jacksonville (1/12/08) and San Diego (1/20/08).
Maroney averaged 11.1 yards per carry against Miami on Dec. 23, 2007, totaling a career-high 156 yards on 14 carries. His 11.1 yards per carry is the third highest single-game total in Patriots history (minimum 10 rushes) and the best since Sam Cunningham averaged 11.4 yards per carry (125 yards on 11 carries) on Oct. 20, 1974.
In 2007, Maroney had five 100-yard rushing games, including two in the playoffs. His five 100-yard games were the most for a Patriot since Corey Dillon tied the franchise record with nine 100-yard performances in 2004.
Maroney rushed for a 59-yard touchdown against Miami on Dec. 23, 2007, marking the longest run by a Patriot since 1998, when Sedrick Shaw scampered for 71 yards in the season finale against the New York Jets.
Maroney has recorded two multiple-touchdown games in his career, running for a pair of scores in the 2007 regularseason finale against the New York Giants (12/29) and also totaling a pair of scores at Cincinnati on Oct. 1, 2006.
As a rookie in 2006, Maroney led the team and finished second in the NFL with a 28.0-yard kickoff return average (783 yards on 28 returns).
Maroney was named AFC Special Teams Player of the Week after returning a kickoff 77 yards at Buffalo on Oct. 22, 2006.


2008 Season

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2008 (3/3/0/2): Started three of the first four games of the season and had 28 rushes for 93 yards ... Was placed on injured reserve on Oct. 20 with a shoulder injury.

If you want to include the 'hall of fame performance' in 2007 against a team (Miami) that went 1-15 then more power to you but until he does anywhere near that against a defense like Pittsburgh or Baltimore or any respectable team that did not earn the following years #1 draft pick, its not very impressive - How you can be impressed on a player,any player that does well against a team that ranked near the bottom on defense is beyond me,Miami sucked on offense,was just as bad on defense equaling 1-15.

We can all argue about Maroney until we are blue in the face but the fact remains is that you either think he has the potential to become a superstar or you don't - simple as that


Maroney's best game ever IMO was the 1/08 playoff game against SD - I would love to see more in 2009 and holding out a glimmer of hope it could happen,but I doubt it

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/186703-official-trade-brady-debate-thread-do-not-start-another-one.html

So much for your post....

Whatever. I don't think that diminishes my overall statement, but I'm sure you didn't read the rest. You just remembered that there was a thread about Tom Brady that was posted LONG before I joined and you were excited to find it and post it. And besides, did you see the kind of responses that nonsensical post got? Also, it appeared to be at a time when there were major concerns about the surgery, so many people were probably thinking the Pats should cut their losses. Are people going to still feel that way if he comes storming out of the gates and has another pre-injury season where they throws close to 30 TD's and 3000+ yards?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

I'm curious how a guy gets 4.4 yards a carry while consistenly being tackled behind the LOS.

Well that 4.4 stat won't matter when he goes down another season on IR ,Will it?

If he played a full freaking season for one time in his life that 4.4 would be greatly reduced but since he is only on the field 1/2 of the year or less than his 4.4 won't falter as rapidly.

If you think he could keep a 4.4 average for a whole 16 games you are nuts

 

[supafly]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/186703-official-trade-brady-debate-thread-do-not-start-another-one.html

So much for your post....

He may not have been around for that craziness, Deus.

I think we understand what he's saying, everyone has their certain players they stick up for. I like you, think Seymour gets picked on way too much. But you may not agree with my liking Hobbs as much as I do either.

Just the same, it's at least a fair point--that's all you can ask for. Not everyone's gonna agree

 

[Mogamedogz]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

NE should use him more in the passing game this season. He has serious play-making ability when he gets the ball in space.

just my .02

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

He may not have been around for that craziness, Deus.

I think we understand what he's saying, everyone has their certain players they stick up for. I like you, think Seymour gets picked on way too much. But you may not agree with my liking Hobbs as much as I do either.

Just the same, it's at least a fair point--that's all you can ask for. Not everyone's gonna agree

Thanks for not missing the point. I always try to be as fair as I can, especially when criticism is involved. Even with that ridiculous response to what I posted, I don't feel in any way my message was diminished.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

Whatever. I don't think that diminishes my overall statement. And besides, did you see the kind of responses that nonsensical post got? Also, it appeared to be at a time when there were major concerns about the surgery, so many people were probably thinking the Pats should cut their losses. Are people going to still feel that way if he comes storming out of the gates and has another pre-injury season where they throws close to 30 TD's and 3000+ yards?

Ummm.... it completely kills your overall statement. Look, it's not my fault you made a terrible argument. Then again, given your other posts in this thread, it's not exactly a surprise that you made such a comment anyway.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

NE should use him more in the passing game this season. He has serious play-making ability when he gets the ball in space.

just my .02

Maroney IS very good catching passes out of the backfield where he can use his speed and agility when no one is right in your face, but if you put him behind the LOS and expect him to power his way out of a negative gain then good luck and pray for him to get at least back to the LOS,a gain is not happening 95% of the time.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

He may not have been around for that craziness, Deus.

I think we understand what he's saying, everyone has their certain players they stick up for. I like you, think Seymour gets picked on way too much. But you may not agree with my liking Hobbs as much as I do either.

Just the same, it's at least a fair point--that's all you can ask for. Not everyone's gonna agree

The problem is that it's not a fair point, as the Trade Brady thread proves. How can his point possibly be fair when it's been proven wrong? Your claiming it is does not make it so.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

Ummm.... it completely kills your overall statement. Look, it's not my fault you made a terrible argument. Then again, given your other posts in this thread, it's not exactly a surprise that you made such a comment anyway.

If you say so. Keep drinking the Maroney kool-aid. I hope you're just as into him when he's eventually no longer a Patriot. You'd probably still be defending Chad Jackson too if BB didn't ship him out.

 

[StyLeZ X]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

-Maroney +Moreno

 

[supafly]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

The problem is that it's not a fair point, as the Trade Brady thread proves. How can his point possibly be fair when it's been proven wrong? Your claiming it is does not make it so.

I don't like to get into pissing matches with proven and established posters such as yourself. You guys are the heart and soul of these boards.

I am simply saying that if he would've said..."There weren't any threads about trading (Randy Moss) and Wes Welker," instead of Tom Brady and Wes Welker, then it would've made sense. I was just saying that I understand his point because he probably wasn't here when some idiots were talking about trading Tom. I think the point was that if people were so happy and satisfied with his performance, there wouldn't be any discussions. For ex: No ones talking about trading Wilfork, etc.

I have my own battles, and I didn't mean to get into one between 2 other people, I should've not commented. My only point was that he was saying established and proven players don't usually have so much controversy etc, multiple threads--that's all. Certainly not saying who's right and who's wrong, everyone has their own opinion.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

If you say so. Keep drinking the Maroney kool-aid. I hope you're just as into him when he's eventually no longer a Patriot. You'd probably still be defending Chad Jackson too if BB didn't ship him out.

What Koolaid? Your argument was crap. I'm not sure why you would defend it after it was refuted so easily. You made a statement. I proved it wrong with a cite to a thread of over 1000 posts. It's not my fault you made a piss-poor argument.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

The 4.4 ypc average that some are proudly touting means nothing, ultimately, because numbers, especially averages, can be extremely misleading. I think a more fair assessment would be if we looked at his situational statistics, and even yet, actual situational game footage. I think that would paint a more accurate picture of what we're trying to hash out..

Lawrence Maroney's situational statistic, his DVOA, is well above NFL average.


Nobody is arguing that Maroney hasn't been dissapointing. We're arguing that hes been dissapointing because hes hurt, not because of on the field performance. His on the field performance has been great.


Your argument is akin to saying "Tom Brady is a crappy QB because he only threw for 76 yards last year"

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

I don't like to get into pissing matches with proven and established posters such as yourself. You guys are the heart and soul of these boards.

I am simply saying that if he would've said..."There weren't any threads about trading (Randy Moss) and Wes Welker," instead of Tom Brady and Wes Welker, then it would've made sense. I was just saying that I understand his point because he probably wasn't here when some idiots were talking about trading Tom. I think the point was that if people were so happy and satisfied with his performance, there wouldn't be any discussions. For ex: No ones talking about trading Wilfork, etc.

3 quick points:

1.) I agree with your defense in the sense of there being a lot of Maroney bashing posts and few such posts for some other players. Sadly for the new guy, that wasn't what his post actually said, and he's kept defending it rather than just admitting error and moving on.

2.) While I'm not saying it's an identical situation, people were pummeling Cassel this past preseason and for the first few games of the season. The "mob rules" mentality of message boards is actually one of this medium's great weaknesses, not a strength.

3.) Pissing matches are also part of the life's blood of message boards, so don't hold back. Bring good points and that's really all most of us would ask of you, or of anyone else.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Are the New England Patriots Ready To Deal Laurence Maroney?

3 quick points:
2.) While I'm not saying it's an identical situation, people were pummeling Cassel this past preseason and for the first few games of the season. The "mob rules" mentality of message boards is actually one of this medium's great weaknesses, not a strength.

Difference being while Cassel was criticized this past offseason,He had not even one regular season game under his belt so it was not justified even though we were not exactly secure with Matt at the helm in september.

In Lomo's circumstance he has had 3 years to become a staple of this offense,Cassel did it in a few games - LoMo has yet to be an impact player 3 years later - injury excuses aside.