4PM and No Asante Deal!

[mgcolby]

I completely disagree with this statement.

Ok, care to elaborate? The only categories Asante has outperformed Vasher in is tackles and Pass Defensed over 4 years. Compared to 3 years and the only category that he has been consistently better than Vasher in is pass defensed.

The new scientific football book isn't out for 2007 but the 2006 book has Vasher head and shoulders above Asante in just about every category for CB's.

 

[Warren94]

Sign Merriweather and concentrate on the rest of the draft picks. Merriweather played CB at the U I believe (Remix help a brother out)

Get Merriweather signed and let's move on from Samuel. Did he have a fantastic year last year? Yes he did, but overall he is not a shutdown corner

thanks.

 

[Pats726]

I dont agree with the one year wonder characterization, but even if it were true, who really cares? He is what he has grown into. Would you pay more for a guy who was better earlier in his career but is now behind what samuel has grown into? You are paying for his future not his past.

I'm not sure why you feel he has a chip on his shoulder. He believes he is so good that he should be paid a certain amount of money, and its more than the Patriots are offering. That isn't a chip on his shoulder, that is a difference of opinion.
He is taking what action is available to him in a case like this.
He was franchised. He tried to negotiate a long term deal.
Now he must play under the tag or refuse to.
That is the system.
Would you feel that anyone who feels they are underpaid (and there are millions of Americans who do) has a chip on their shoulder? Even if they are correct that they are underpaid? Even if they are wrong they are underpaid, and they search for a new job what is wrong with that?
People change jobs every day. People feel eunderappreciated by their employers every day. You seem to be tying a negative character trait to anyone who doesnt shut up, accept whatever they are offered, and say thank you. That isn't what America was built on.

I have no clue about what the organization did for him, or he did for them, but it appears they have both held up their end of the bargain.
He showed up. He got his paychecks. He did his job. He was trained and coached.
What exactly did the Patriots do for him over and above what an employer is supposed to do?

If your employer had a system where after 4 years of employment you either agreed to a new pay scale or were paid the average of the top 10% of people in your position in your field, and told you they would
1) Negotiate a deal with you
2) Pay you that average of the 10% for a year
3) You could stop showing up for work nad not get paid
and you didn't agree that what they were offering long term was fair, and didn't want to waste a year waiting to decide your long term future, what do you do?
Would I be allowed to criticize you and characterize you as a jerk with a chip on your shoulder if I didn't like our decision?

I think we just get too carried away here with assigning value systems to people we know nothing about because we are upset about how their needs fit into the needs of the team we root for.

If Asante was the chef at your favorite restaurant and going through a contract dispute like this, would you judge his morals based on whether he wanted to accept what they offered and shut up, or whether he would go to another restaurant that paid him more?

Comparisons of what players make and the living style they have compared to the average American is making basically fall flat....what would be a big change on the average American's lifestyle is hardly a change in As's from one cotract to another...Gee..instead of buying 7 houses he can only buy 6??? Please....when players are in the top 1 percent of income, it's basically about greed NOT lifestyle.

 

[psychoPat]

Comparisons of what players make and the living style they have compared to the average American is making basically fall flat....what would be a big change on the average American's lifestyle is hardly a change in As's from one cotract to another...Gee..instead of buying 7 houses he can only buy 6??? Please....when players are in the top 1 percent of income, it's basically about greed NOT lifestyle.

Andy can be such a scold, can't he?

 

[Oswlek]

Asante is much better than some here give him credit for. The guy played much better than anyone would expect from a 4th rounder his rookie year. He was a good starter - certainly not the best but better than average - his second year. His third year was marred by some long passes, but every bit of evidence indicates that poor safety play was a major contributor to these plays. Last year he was very good - even great at times - to the point that SD only threw something like 3 passes in his direction. Indy certainly didn't have much success throwing his way either in the playoffs.

I don't see why the fact that his ints came in bunches against bad competition really matters, the same is true for most CBs. If you want to point out a flaw in his game, it is the propensity to allow a long completion when he misses out on an int. Even that area seemed to improve last year down the stretch.

He is a very good CB that is hitting his prime. Just because he is holding out doesn't mean that we need to denegrate him.

 

[DaBruinz]

There is NO WAY Samuel deserves 30 million in the 1st 3 years of a contract. He and his agents must be smoking the wacky weed that Rickey Williams had lying around. ITs friggint ABSURD.

No wonder a deal didn't get done. Their expectations are so friggin outta whack.

Samuel should be happy to get $20 million over 3 years and he should be thanking the Patriots for their offer. The Patriots need to trade him now and be done with him.

 

[maverick4]

will asante play or sit and try to force a trade?

 

[Keegs]

Lets trade Asante With reche caldwell.

That is the best idea that i have seen on here yet.

Damn who could we get for that?

 

[patsgo]

Re: no deal per riess

Then they aren't nearly $17 million apart in bonuses. If they offered him a 5 year $30 million deal with more than a third of it in a bonus, the Pats will most likely pay him $18-22 million in the first three years.

splitting hairs at this point

 

[patriot lifer]

Lets trade Asante With reche caldwell.

That is the best idea that i have seen on here yet.

Damn who could we get for that?

Lets trade for Hank Poteat. I'm just not sure the Jets would be such fools to do it

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Andy can be such a scold, can't he?

No kidding...especially since it's Asante who explained a while ago he's had that chip on his shoulder since highschool...Nobody ever thought he was all that good (except perhaps himself and to a lesser extent Bill Belichick...) and after last season he determined he was going to show them all, on and off the field! And boy, he has!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Asante is much better than some here give him credit for. The guy played much better than anyone would expect from a 4th rounder his rookie year. He was a good starter - certainly not the best but better than average - his second year. His third year was marred by some long passes, but every bit of evidence indicates that poor safety play was a major contributor to these plays. Last year he was very good - even great at times - to the point that SD only threw something like 3 passes in his direction. Indy certainly didn't have much success throwing his way either in the playoffs.

I don't see why the fact that his ints came in bunches against bad competition really matters, the same is true for most CBs. If you want to point out a flaw in his game, it is the propensity to allow a long completion when he misses out on an int. Even that area seemed to improve last year down the stretch.

He is a very good CB that is hitting his prime. Just because he is holding out doesn't mean that we need to denegrate him.

I'm not denigrating him. He is what he is - a good young CB who is a ballhawk and can be very good in this system behind a very talented defense when they are all on the field. Problem is he wants to be paid like the kind of premier cover corner talent who in and of himself is a difference maker who immediately upgrades an entire defense like a Champ Bailey. I don't think he's that, and I think BB doesn't think he's that. And even if he was that he wouldn't fit the salary profile of LCB in this system. We invest the big bucks and high picks up front and look for reasonably talented and bright players we can coach up for the secondary. We even keep an assistant coach on the field with them when he's healthy. Asante worked hard to get where he is, but so did the organization who drafted him and coached him up over 4 seasons. Bill took pains to mention that in his wrap up appearance on WEEI in January. Not to take anything away from Asante, as he said, but the system and the coaching benefitted him substantially.

I think Hobbs is every bit as talented, and maybe brings some intangibles to the mix that 'Sante doesn't. I would prefer he play here, but not for the money he's demanding. I have LB's aging out who have been crucial to this teams success to date, and a couple of young DL up for second deals in a year or two. For that kind of money Asante would have to be a core leader, and that's just not what he projects as with the mantra, get paid. His teamates even know that which is why you haven't heard nearly as much support for poor Asante as you did for Deion. If they gave Asante what he's asking for, or anything remotely approaching it, the rest of them would want their deals revisited ASAP because they know where he fits in the mix.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Look at this from Asante's point of view:

He had a phenomenal year last year. He had 10 picks during the regular season. Champ Bailey, Ty Law, and Deltha O'Neal are the only other players to have done this in the past 5 years. .

Yet Bailey made the Pro Bowl 7 times, Law 4 and O'Neal twice. Samuel has yet to make it...............I don't know what percentage of PRo Bowl voting is by fans now but if the players percentage is as big as I think it is, it means his fellow players don't think of him as an elite player, so why should he be paid as such? Not when Warren and Wilfolk has extensions coming up. I see his point but I also see the Pats perspective in not wanting to upset the apple cart and disrupt the pay structure. They may also feel that if he holds out til week 10, they have adequate players to replace him. Who knows, maybe they get lucky and the secondary stays healthy this year for the first time in.......years....

 

[upstater1]

Why do people keep referring to Asante's contributions to the Patriots' winning ways?

Asante was never a contributor to a Patriots Super Bowl team. He was maybe the 6th or 7th DB back in 2004, hardly ever on the field.

If he leaves New England, chances are he will never contribute to a championship team. He'll go through his career as a guy who has a ring but did very little to show for it.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Vasher's deal runs through 2012. So it's either a 6 year $28.85M deal or a 5 year $28M deal. It does not average $6.5M, it averages $4.8M over 6 years or $5.6M over 5. Much like Richard's 3 year $30M deal averages $8M per if you consider it is paid over 4 years ($32M) that included the final year of his rookie deal.

"The former University of Texas corner received a signing bonus of $9.5 million, and for 2007, kept the same $850,000 base salary he was scheduled to earn under his original deal. But he will also be paid roster bonuses of $2 million this year and $2.5 million in 2008, in addition to his base salary of $750,000 for 2008. That totals $15.6 million.

Base salaries for the rest of the extension are $2.9 million in 2009, $2.95 million in 2010, $3.45 million in 2011 and $3.7 million in 2012.

As a rookie in 2004, Vasher signed a four-year, $1.77 million contract that included a $390,000 signing bonus. "

Thank you for the correction. I half-assed my research and it shows.

 

[upstater1]

Top CB's are. Thomas is a two time and should have been 3 time pro bowler. Asante is a one year wonder who also played well on a superbowl championship team in 2004 that had an outstanding front 7 and a healthy Rodney Harrison and disappeared on it's struggling defense in 2005. In fact Asante is really only a half season wonder. Hobbs won the LCB position in camp last year and Asante didn't get it back until Hobbs was injured. Half of his regular season INTS came off the dynamic duo of Culpepper and Grossman. 7 of his 10 INTS in the regular season came after Thanksgiving. Back then they were offering him $7.5M in guarantees, so they came up substantially in light of his performance down the stretch and the market.

I think if Belichick thought he was a (stand alone) top corner he'd have either offered him more or just traded him to a team willing to carry top corner compensation on their cap. I think they think he's a very good corner in/for this system. Which is all this system calls for. Good corners aren't paid more than top LB's in this system. And besides, he's looking for top DE money, apparently. Good corners don't make more than them in this system either.

Asante has a real chip on his shoulder and that's too bad. This organization has done at least as much for him as he has for them. Unfortunately in the process they may have created a monster.

The question is how much did Asante improve from the CB who was burnt badly quite a few times in 2005.

Judging by his 2007 season he improved a lot.

But that's one season. It's impossible to know what the future holds.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: no deal per riess

Branch offered the same thing and was rejected.

Branch made a public offer/demand - which is what killed that potential compromise right from the start. If Asante is smart he won't take such a compromise public - that creates a situation where the team cannot capitulate.

Do not agree. So, basically we promise not to franchise him next year? Then proceed to lose him for nothing? Nope. If he comes in and plays under the franchise, we tag him and trade him next year. There is no way they let him go for nothing.

I wouldn't call playing a full season and winning another SB Ring "nothing".

Recognizing that hindsight is 20/20, I'd prefer to have had Branch play out his contract and move on this year - AND have another Super Bowl Ring to having a first round draft pick.

Having a 1a WR all season last year certainly would have made the difference in any number of losses - including the Colts game which we would have won if not for just one more first down to run out the clock.

I always kindof thought the goal was to win SB rings - not "get something" for disgruntled players. Samuel could be the difference maker this year - I think we can still win a SB without him - but I'd prefer to use all the ammunition we have.

It's in EVERYONE'S best interest for Samuel to play a full season this year. A quiet agreement not to allow him to move into free agency next year if he doesn't cause a disruption and hold out, and plays a full season is probably the only way that's going to happen.

But if Samuel uses the same demands and rhetoric that Branch did, as he was earlier in the offseason, that will never happen. His agents new found spirit of compromise and lack of bombastic rhetoric in the last few days is a positive sign that some agreement of that nature is possible.

Besides - the intent of the franchise tag is not to hold players hostage until someone agrees to give up a draft pick to get them. The Branch situation last year was different as he was NOT franchised, but still under contract. The intent of the franchise tag is to keep a player for one year for a fair market value (which is currently very cost-effective at CB).

If Asante wants to play hardball the Patriots absolutely should too - but if there's a compromise to get him to play this year that can be made under the radar, it makes sense to do it and leave nothing to chance when it comes to picking up another SB ring THIS season.

absolutely agree. The Pats have the leverage at this point. They need to be careful about giving up any power. Otherwise, they could miss out on capitalizing.

Again - SB rings are the goal - not acquiring "leverage" and sowing seeds of discontent with Samuel and other players. That's not what this organization is about.

I'm hopeful of a compromise to get Asante in camp and playing a full season.

All of you should ask yourself a simple question - what do you want? Another SB Ring? Or a disgruntled player who refuses to pay held hostagefor a ransom (two first round picks) that few if any teams are willing to pay?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: no deal per riess

All of you should ask yourself a simple question - what do you want? Another SB Ring? Or a disgruntled player who refuses to pay held hostagefor a ransom (two first round picks) that few if any teams are willing to pay?

I want a team that understands winning the Super Bowl is a crap shoot, but staying in contention to win the Super Bowl year after year is a product of staying within a system and maintaining excellence. For all the crying about the team not winning the Super Bowl last season, they were a bout of the flu and an injury to Maroney away from doing just that. Anyone who thinks that having Branch on the team would have magically dispelled all the flu virus from the Patriots' lungs of turned Maroney into the man of steel is fooling themselves, to say the least.

I've got no issues with Samuel, or any other player, trying to cash in. On the other hand, if they are only about the money and feel a need to get every nickel possible so strongly that they can't accept the concept of a real, but fair, "hometown discount" on the team to keep their teammates around, they can go pound sand. And that goes for Samuel, Seymour, Warren, Brady or any other player on the squad.

 

[Vern]

Re: no deal per riess

Branch offered the same thing and was rejected. I'm not sure it's in the Patriots' best interest to gain a few games of Samuel (OK, ten) for this year but agree to lose him for nothing in 7 months.

On the other hand, I don't think the Pats actually want to pay him 9.4M in 09 either. Clearly, all they really want in 09 is to franchise him in order to trade him, like they've done once or twice before.

Since no team is going to actually give up 2 first rounders, I think a good option would be to promise Samuel that they will not demand 2 first round picks in a trade for him in 09. That way, he can still be assured of cashing in (his camp suggested a trade this year would have succeeded if not for the Pats holding to the two first round picks demand) and the Pats really give up nothing because by this point in 09, it's all going to be about what they can get for him in a trade anyway. Samuel is then motivated to come in and drive up his value even more for his cash-in year, and the Pats haven't set precedent to not use the tag, just bent on the trade aspects of it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Am I the only person who thinks that Asante would have been a fool to sign for 6M/yr with 13M in bonuses?

Oh, pray tell, why would Asante have been a fool? He'd likely see ALL the money in the contract and he'd be richer than he'd ever imagined.

If that was NE's final offer they knew there was never any chance of a deal and already know how they're going to handle the Asante situation.

It probably wasn't their final offer, but if Samuel and his agent weren't coming down at all, then they weren't going to budge either.

My best guess is that they simply wait for him to sign the tender. If he doesn't sign it until week 10 then so be it. It's not like Belichick won't simply answer "no comment" to any Asante question. Asking about Asante will be just like injury inquiries; reporters will ask the obligatory questions because they have to and then move on. Just because ESPN and the Boston Sports Media will be talking about Asante every hour for 10 weeks doesn't mean Belichick will give it a second thought.

*edit* bringing up Thomas's deal is unfair to Asante. Thomas did not prioritize money and took less because of it. Expecting Asante to take less just because Thomas did is unfair. He has all the right in the world to get paid as much as he can as long as he's willing to accept the repercussions.

Bringing up Thomas' deal is unfair? How do you figure? Thomas was the PREMIER FA at his position. And its not like he's gotten a HUGE payday previously.

No, expecting Asante to take FAIR MARKET VALUE, which is NOT 10 million a year for the 1st 3 years for a CB who has only had 1 good season, is not unfair. A season where Earthwind Moreland could have had at least 5 of those interceptions. The market for a CB of Asante's nature is NOT 10 million a year over the 1st 3 years of his contract. And I doubt that Asante will EVER see $30 million in the next 3 years.