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4PM and No Asante Deal!


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Re: no deal per riess

Do not agree. So, basically we promise not to franchise him next year? Then proceed to lose him for nothing? Nope. If he comes in and plays under the franchise, we tag him and trade him next year. There is no way they let him go for nothing.

absolutely agree. The Pats have the leverage at this point. They need to be careful about giving up any power. Otherwise, they could miss out on capitalizing.
 
Then the question is whehter or not the Pats feel Samuel is a top corner or not...obviously they do not...or they want a prove it year before dropping tons of cash on a player who some thought would not start last year. /shrug...who knows.

exactly. He has only been one of the top corners for one year. He didn't even make the probowl. Only his agent thinks he should be getting that kind of money.
 
exactly. He has only been one of the top corners for one year. He didn't even make the probowl. Only his agent thinks he should be getting that kind of money.

I concur. But isn't it less about being paid like a top corner and more about a crazy offseason filled with huge deals. These players are benefiting so much from the increase in cap space. Redding just got a $49 million deal. I remember when Bledsoe got a deal like that with the Pats in the 90's. A Dt being paid like a 90's Qb.
 
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Am I the only person who thinks that Asante would have been a fool to sign for 6M/yr with 13M in bonuses?

If that was NE's final offer they knew there was never any chance of a deal and already know how they're going to handle the Asante situation.

My best guess is that they simply wait for him to sign the tender. If he doesn't sign it until week 10 then so be it. It's not like Belichick won't simply answer "no comment" to any Asante question. Asking about Asante will be just like injury inquiries; reporters will ask the obligatory questions because they have to and then move on. Just because ESPN and the Boston Sports Media will be talking about Asante every hour for 10 weeks doesn't mean Belichick will give it a second thought.

*edit* bringing up Thomas's deal is unfair to Asante. Thomas did not prioritize money and took less because of it. Expecting Asante to take less just because Thomas did is unfair. He has all the right in the world to get paid as much as he can as long as he's willing to accept the repercussions.

Look at Vasher's deal and compare the two players - I think the Patriots offer was fair.

I also think, long term thinking says - save your money for Warren and Wilfork as they would be nuch harder to replace then Samuel.

It would be great to sign Warren a year early next year and same for Wilfork the following year.
 
Am I the only person who thinks that Asante would have been a fool to sign for 6M/yr with 13M in bonuses?

If that was NE's final offer they knew there was never any chance of a deal and already know how they're going to handle the Asante situation.

My best guess is that they simply wait for him to sign the tender. If he doesn't sign it until week 10 then so be it. It's not like Belichick won't simply answer "no comment" to any Asante question. Asking about Asante will be just like injury inquiries; reporters will ask the obligatory questions because they have to and then move on. Just because ESPN and the Boston Sports Media will be talking about Asante every hour for 10 weeks doesn't mean Belichick will give it a second thought.

*edit* bringing up Thomas's deal is unfair to Asante. Thomas did not prioritize money and took less because of it. Expecting Asante to take less just because Thomas did is unfair. He has all the right in the world to get paid as much as he can as long as he's willing to accept the repercussions.

I agree with you. The Pats' contract may have even been back loaded.

The tender offer of 7.9 mil. for one year might be millions higher than the

first year of the contract Asante was offered. The thing that surprises me

is the Pats did not cover themselves in the event of a prolonged hold out.

Signing Tory James and drafting Mike Richardson does not amount to

adequate protection. The interesting thing is that Asante will probably not

be able to duplicate the 10 interceptions and his value will drop.
 
I don't know, but it just doesn't sound like someone who will hold out.

July 16, 2007
More Samuel
By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff
Alonzo Shavers, the agent for cornerback Asante Samuel, confirmed that an extension was not reached with the Patriots.

"Collectively, between the two of us, we were not able to strike a deal," he said.

Shavers was asked about the possibility of Samuel holding out.

"That option remains on the table for him," he said. "He's going to make those decisions behind closed doors."

Asked about Samuel's reaction to the deadline passing, Shavers said: "Obviously, he's disappointed. But he's a professional, and he's aware of the team he plays for, the situation he's in, and his reaction was what it should be, one of continued professionalism."
 
I say trade him for even asking for 30million guarenteed. Asante is a bi-product of the patriots defense, just like Deon was. They made a fair offer, and as far as I'm concerned, drop him. Thats just ridiculous, he's a good cornerback, probably top 10, but nothing higher.

We'll be fine without him.
 
Here's my take: both Asante and the Pats have behaved very rationally up to this point. They both understand that it is in everybody's best interest for him to report to camp (more or less) on time and have a good season.

Look at this from Asante's point of view:

He had a phenomenal year last year. He had 10 picks during the regular season. Champ Bailey, Ty Law, and Deltha O'Neal are the only other players to have done this in the past 5 years. He has a great nationally televised game against Chicago (his best of the season IMO). Then he adds a pick 6 off Manning in the AFCCG while guarding Harrison.

Then by getting franchised that means that the WORST he can do is get the $7.79M for 2007, right? There is pretty much no reason for him NOT to at least threaten to hold out. Why not put pressure on the Pats? By placing the franchise tag on him the Patriots have already indicated that they are willing to pay that amount.

His market value will never be higher. He might as well try to get a Clements-type deal from the Pats even though he knows there is little chance of getting it.

So let's look to next year. The most likely scenario for Asante next year is that he plays well, but maybe gets only 5-6 picks and doesn't have a standout performance like the 2 last year.

In order to franchise him again the Pats would need to give him a 20% bump to $9.4M. Unlikely to happen. The Pats will have higher priorities (Ty Warren). I can't see them franchising him just to trade him. That would be a **** move on their part. It also means that they run the risk of paying him the $9.4. And only real benefit would be keeping him away from the Jets.

So Asante will hit the free agent market next year when teams still have a huge chunk of cap room and he might even be the best CB on the market at that point. He'll get his deal then. Though he has to be a little frustrated that he can't get a longer term deal with more security he's not going to be too frustrated to turn down a $7.79M check.

There is still plenty of time for this to get crazy, but at this point I think Asante is behaving very rationally. I really don't see things getting ugly at this point. Asante will be in a Pats uniform this season.
 
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Look at Vasher's deal and compare the two players - I think the Patriots offer was fair.

I also think, long term thinking says - save your money for Warren and Wilfork as they would be nuch harder to replace then Samuel.

It would be great to sign Warren a year early next year and same for Wilfork the following year.

Vasher got a 5 year, $28M extension ($14M guaranteed). He still had one year remaining on his rookie deal, though, so the contract is for 4 new years. I don't know how much he was going to make in '07, but I feel pretty comfortable with the assumption he wasn't making over 1M as a 4th rounder. So removing 1 year at 1M you arrive at 4 years and $27M in new money, or 6.5M/yr.

It should also be noted that, with a year left on his rookie deal, Vasher had no leverage and was looking at only making $1M or so this year. Asante's worst-case scenario is that he makes almost $8M.

So Vasher's deal was for $.5M more annually and $1M more guaranteed, and Vasher's set for life a year early (while Asante will be set for life if he plays under the franchise tender anyway). I'm not familiar with Vasher as a player, but he'd have to be much better than Asante for Asante to agree to a lesser deal.

As for the notion of fair, that's highly subjective and the player doesn't have to be happy with "fair." Maybe he wants a "great" deal, and he has the right to seek that.

I agree with you by the way. I would much rather NE spends their money on Warren and Wilfork. I only want NE to re-sign Asante to a favorable deal, but that doesn't mean I begrudge Asante if he doesn't want to do the Patriots any favors.
 
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Samuel tried to turn 1 year into a long term deal. He could'nt. One year doesnt erase all those dropped passes and bad plays the previous years. Asante will sign now he has no choice really. Plus he knows he no longer has to worry about being franchised tagged because he will prove to be a 1 year wonder.Asante knows last year was his career year, congrats to the Pats for not being snookered into a horrible deal. Asante will "get paid" one year at a time.
 
Vasher got a 5 year, $28M extension ($14M guaranteed). He still had one year remaining on his rookie deal, though, so the contract is for 4 new years. I don't know how much he was going to make in '07, but I feel pretty comfortable with the assumption he wasn't making over 1M as a 4th rounder. So removing 1 year at 1M you arrive at 4 years and $27M in new money, or 6.5M/yr.

It should also be noted that, with a year left on his rookie deal, Vasher had no leverage and was looking at only making $1M or so this year. Asante's worst-case scenario is that he makes almost $8M.

So Vasher's deal was for $.5M more annually and $1M more guaranteed, and Vasher's set for life a year early (while Asante will be set for life if he plays under the franchise tender anyway). I'm not familiar with Vasher as a player, but he'd have to be much better than Asante for Asante to agree to a lesser deal.

Vasher's talent level is equal to or greater than Asante's and he has been much more consistent over his three years in the league.
 
In order to franchise him again the Pats would need to give him a 20% bump to $9.4M. Unlikely to happen. The Pats will have higher priorities (Ty Warren). I can't see them franchising him just to trade him. That would be a **** move on their part. It also means that they run the risk of paying him the $9.4. And only real benefit would be keeping him away from the Jets.

Why would that be a **** move? Its a perfectly acceptable course of action according to the CBA. It would be a smart move for New England, why just let a guy walk, if you can get a pick for him?

Other than that, I agree with your post.
 
Vasher's talent level is equal to or greater than Asante's and he has been much more consistent over his three years in the league.

I completely disagree with this statement.
 
Someone please correct me if I am wrong here.
This deadline passing doesnt mean he cannot resign long term, but if he did the Pats would lose the right to use the franchise tag for the length of that deal.
IIRC, there is also a way around that, by signing a one year deal and then extending it later, but I could be wrong about that.
 
But Thomas is 3 years older than Samuel and plays linebacker, not cornerback. Top CBs are paid more than top LBs.


Top CB's are. Thomas is a two time and should have been 3 time pro bowler. Asante is a one year wonder who also played well on a superbowl championship team in 2004 that had an outstanding front 7 and a healthy Rodney Harrison and disappeared on it's struggling defense in 2005. In fact Asante is really only a half season wonder. Hobbs won the LCB position in camp last year and Asante didn't get it back until Hobbs was injured. Half of his regular season INTS came off the dynamic duo of Culpepper and Grossman. 7 of his 10 INTS in the regular season came after Thanksgiving. Back then they were offering him $7.5M in guarantees, so they came up substantially in light of his performance down the stretch and the market.

I think if Belichick thought he was a (stand alone) top corner he'd have either offered him more or just traded him to a team willing to carry top corner compensation on their cap. I think they think he's a very good corner in/for this system. Which is all this system calls for. Good corners aren't paid more than top LB's in this system. And besides, he's looking for top DE money, apparently. Good corners don't make more than them in this system either.

Asante has a real chip on his shoulder and that's too bad. This organization has done at least as much for him as he has for them. Unfortunately in the process they may have created a monster.
 
Vasher got a 5 year, $28M extension ($14M guaranteed). He still had one year remaining on his rookie deal, though, so the contract is for 4 new years. I don't know how much he was going to make in '07, but I feel pretty comfortable with the assumption he wasn't making over 1M as a 4th rounder. So removing 1 year at 1M you arrive at 4 years and $27M in new money, or 6.5M/yr.

It should also be noted that, with a year left on his rookie deal, Vasher had no leverage and was looking at only making $1M or so this year. Asante's worst-case scenario is that he makes almost $8M.

So Vasher's deal was for $.5M more annually and $1M more guaranteed, and Vasher's set for life a year early (while Asante will be set for life if he plays under the franchise tender anyway). I'm not familiar with Vasher as a player, but he'd have to be much better than Asante for Asante to agree to a lesser deal.

As for the notion of fair, that's highly subjective and the player doesn't have to be happy with "fair." Maybe he wants a "great" deal, and he has the right to seek that.

I agree with you by the way. I would much rather NE spends their money on Warren and Wilfork. I only want NE to re-sign Asante to a favorable deal, but that doesn't mean I begrudge Asante if he doesn't want to do the Patriots any favors.

Vasher's deal runs through 2012. So it's either a 6 year $28.85M deal or a 5 year $28M deal. It does not average $6.5M, it averages $4.8M over 6 years or $5.6M over 5. Much like Richard's 3 year $30M deal averages $8M per if you consider it is paid over 4 years ($32M) that included the final year of his rookie deal.

"The former University of Texas corner received a signing bonus of $9.5 million, and for 2007, kept the same $850,000 base salary he was scheduled to earn under his original deal. But he will also be paid roster bonuses of $2 million this year and $2.5 million in 2008, in addition to his base salary of $750,000 for 2008. That totals $15.6 million.

Base salaries for the rest of the extension are $2.9 million in 2009, $2.95 million in 2010, $3.45 million in 2011 and $3.7 million in 2012.

As a rookie in 2004, Vasher signed a four-year, $1.77 million contract that included a $390,000 signing bonus. "
 
Am I the only person who thinks that Asante would have been a fool to sign for 6M/yr with 13M in bonuses?

If that was NE's final offer they knew there was never any chance of a deal and already know how they're going to handle the Asante situation.

NFL contracts are all about the guarenteed $.

The Pats essentially offerred Samuel 5.2m more in guarenteed $ than he can get by simply signing the tender. There is no reason he would or should sign LT for that.
 
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Top CB's are. Thomas is a two time and should have been 3 time pro bowler. Asante is a one year wonder who also played well on a superbowl championship team in 2004 that had an outstanding front 7 and a healthy Rodney Harrison and disappeared on it's struggling defense in 2005. In fact Asante is really only a half season wonder. Hobbs won the LCB position in camp last year and Asante didn't get it back until Hobbs was injured. Half of his regular season INTS came off the dynamic duo of Culpepper and Grossman. 7 of his 10 INTS in the regular season came after Thanksgiving. Back then they were offering him $7.5M in guarantees, so they came up substantially in light of his performance down the stretch and the market.

I think if Belichick thought he was a (stand alone) top corner he'd have either offered him more or just traded him to a team willing to carry top corner compensation on their cap. I think they think he's a very good corner in/for this system. Which is all this system calls for. Good corners aren't paid more than top LB's in this system. And besides, he's looking for top DE money, apparently. Good corners don't make more than them in this system either.

Asante has a real chip on his shoulder and that's too bad. This organization has done at least as much for him as he has for them. Unfortunately in the process they may have created a monster.

I dont agree with the one year wonder characterization, but even if it were true, who really cares? He is what he has grown into. Would you pay more for a guy who was better earlier in his career but is now behind what samuel has grown into? You are paying for his future not his past.

I'm not sure why you feel he has a chip on his shoulder. He believes he is so good that he should be paid a certain amount of money, and its more than the Patriots are offering. That isn't a chip on his shoulder, that is a difference of opinion.
He is taking what action is available to him in a case like this.
He was franchised. He tried to negotiate a long term deal.
Now he must play under the tag or refuse to.
That is the system.
Would you feel that anyone who feels they are underpaid (and there are millions of Americans who do) has a chip on their shoulder? Even if they are correct that they are underpaid? Even if they are wrong they are underpaid, and they search for a new job what is wrong with that?
People change jobs every day. People feel eunderappreciated by their employers every day. You seem to be tying a negative character trait to anyone who doesnt shut up, accept whatever they are offered, and say thank you. That isn't what America was built on.

I have no clue about what the organization did for him, or he did for them, but it appears they have both held up their end of the bargain.
He showed up. He got his paychecks. He did his job. He was trained and coached.
What exactly did the Patriots do for him over and above what an employer is supposed to do?

If your employer had a system where after 4 years of employment you either agreed to a new pay scale or were paid the average of the top 10% of people in your position in your field, and told you they would
1) Negotiate a deal with you
2) Pay you that average of the 10% for a year
3) You could stop showing up for work nad not get paid
and you didn't agree that what they were offering long term was fair, and didn't want to waste a year waiting to decide your long term future, what do you do?
Would I be allowed to criticize you and characterize you as a jerk with a chip on your shoulder if I didn't like our decision?

I think we just get too carried away here with assigning value systems to people we know nothing about because we are upset about how their needs fit into the needs of the team we root for.

If Asante was the chef at your favorite restaurant and going through a contract dispute like this, would you judge his morals based on whether he wanted to accept what they offered and shut up, or whether he would go to another restaurant that paid him more?
 
Why would that be a **** move? Its a perfectly acceptable course of action according to the CBA. It would be a smart move for New England, why just let a guy walk, if you can get a pick for him?

Other than that, I agree with your post.

I am just assuming that whatever the Pats could get for him would be pretty minimal. The franchise threat only works if the team actually wants to pay the player the tag amount and I just don't see them wanting to pay him more than $9M. Most teams would just wait them out. So I think they're just looking at a late round pick like a 6 or 7. (I don't know though, I'd be interested if someone had a good example for comparison. I could be wrong.)

For such small return I just don't see it being worth the risk of generating that kind of animosity towards the team. Look at what Graham said last week. I forget the exact quote but it was something like "I played there, got a few rings, learned a lot, and cashed in when I got the chance based on what I did there." I loved that. That's why guys like Moss and Stallworth are here. Players want to play for the Pats because they know that even if they don't get paid here someone else will pay them BECAUSE they played here. Franchising players in order to send them where they don't want to go negates that benefit.
 
I am just assuming that whatever the Pats could get for him would be pretty minimal. The franchise threat only works if the team actually wants to pay the player the tag amount and I just don't see them wanting to pay him more than $9M. Most teams would just wait them out. So I think they're just looking at a late round pick like a 6 or 7. (I don't know though, I'd be interested if someone had a good example for comparison. I could be wrong.)

For such small return I just don't see it being worth the risk of generating that kind of animosity towards the team. Look at what Graham said last week. I forget the exact quote but it was something like "I played there, got a few rings, learned a lot, and cashed in when I got the chance based on what I did there." I loved that. That's why guys like Moss and Stallworth are here. Players want to play for the Pats because they know that even if they don't get paid here someone else will pay them BECAUSE they played here. Franchising players in order to send them where they don't want to go negates that benefit.


These players might want to chat with Ty Law.
 
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