4PM and No Asante Deal!

[dhamz]

Isn't a signing bonus given all at once? Correct me if I am wrong but this is what I figure.

13 million singing bonus (guaranteed)
6 mil/yr. average

13 mil + (6 mil/yr * 3 yrs) = 31 million

Now I have no idea about how the contract is structured (probably back loaded) but what makes him think that in the prime of his career he won't earn the entire contract? Maybe if they reduced his yearly salary and rolled that into his signing bonus to make it 16 instead of 13 million, maybe he would've signed?

He is wanting this money guaranteed. Well Asante, if you are as good as you showed last year then you will guarantee that money will be paid to you. Just my .02

What you are missing is the 6m per year average being quoted includes the bonus. In other words if it were a 6 year deal, it would be 13m in bouns and 23m in salary for 36 total.

If reports that it was "back loaded" are correct it also would probably be structured to end with salaries like 7m and 9m in years 5 and 6 that would never be paid because of the cap hits it would cause essentially making it a 4 year 20m deal.

 

[DaBruinz]

The 30m over 3 years is not nearly as ridiculous as people are trying to make it out to be. He'll most likely get very close to it. If he plays the 2007 season under the tag (almost 8m) and then signs the offer the Pats made (with 13m in signing bonus) he would have 21 million over 2 years plus his salary for year 2 and 3 likely putting him in the 25m range for 3 years. And that is on the conservative side. As an unrestricted free agent he would likely top 13m in bonus.

How do you figure that he's have made 21 million in 2 years? If he had signed the Pats offer, he doesn't get the 7.79 million from the franchise tag. He gets a small salary and his signing bonus. Probably totally 14-15 million. Even then, he'd not get a large raise from that, so it would total out around 17 million for 2 years. And the 3rd year would only be slightly more than that, so maybe 20 million over 3 years.

 

[DaBruinz]

You also said Eric Warfield was a good player. How did that one turn out Skippy?

Sorry. I said that Warfield could be a good player and that his D-line wasn't exactly stellar there in KC. So, please, make sure you quote me properly if you are going to say anything. Otherwise, do everyone a favor and don't.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Oh, pray tell, why would Asante have been a fool? He'd likely see ALL the money in the contract and he'd be richer than he'd ever imagined.

Because he would have left a lot of money on the table

It probably wasn't their final offer, but if Samuel and his agent weren't coming down at all, then they weren't going to budge either.

NE doesn't strike me as the type of team to suddenly add a couple million a year just because it will get the deal done. Their first and final offers are probably fairly close. Besides, if you enter a negotiation and you never even get to your "final offer" then the negotiation simply had no chance.

Bringing up Thomas' deal is unfair? How do you figure? Thomas was the PREMIER FA at his position. And its not like he's gotten a HUGE payday previously.

No, expecting Asante to take FAIR MARKET VALUE, which is NOT 10 million a year for the 1st 3 years for a CB who has only had 1 good season, is not unfair. A season where Earthwind Moreland could have had at least 5 of those interceptions. The market for a CB of Asante's nature is NOT 10 million a year over the 1st 3 years of his contract. And I doubt that Asante will EVER see $30 million in the next 3 years.

It is unfair because Thomas had a different priority than Asante does. Applying one person's priorities to another and then judging that other person is unfair.

Let's say you and I are both looking for a job. Let's say you have health insurance through your wife and I don't. I'm looking for good health insurance for my family through my job. You can care less about health insurance and would rather receive more salary. Can I call you stupid because you didn't get health insurance? Can you call me stupid because I took less salary?

Asante doesn't have to take what you view as fair market value. Freeney didn't settle for fair, and that worked out for him. Givens didn't settle for fair and got his payday. Why should Asante settle for fair when he can make more? If he chooses to accept fair for other reasons that's great. That is neither standard nor expected, though.

 

[WhiZa]

Shavers was asked about the possibility of Samuel holding out.

"That option remains on the table for him," he said. "He's going to make those decisions behind closed doors."

I finally got a chance to read Reiss this morning. Did Samuel say in the media (aka not closed doors) that he was going to hold out till week 10?

 

[Pats726]

I finally got a chance to read Reiss this morning. Did Samuel say in the media (aka not closed doors) that he was going to hold out till week 10?

I think it was reported that he did...OR that those in his camp said that was an option he was thinking about. Eiher way, it has been on the table as a possibility and whether it was HIM or his agent or people speaking for him..that was a headline.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry Andy. You can disagree all you want, but I've watched Vasher play and he is much better than Asante.

I have too, and I disagree, in fact I dont even think its very close.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I have too, and I disagree, in fact I dont even think its very close.

Well the thing is, apparently Bill thinks value wise Asante is considerably closer to Vasher than Bailey. And at the end of the day, that's really the only truly informed opinion that counts.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

I'm in with the camp that feels Asante was foolish not to work out a deal with the Pats. He could have stayed on a great team long term, been protected against injury, and still turned out filthy rich - maybe not quite as much as he dreamed of but still huge money. Instead, the best he can get is only $8mil guaranteed (and only gets all that if he shows up for game 1), has no injury protection and likely will be franchised again next year if he plays well.

The Pat's held nearly all the cards and Asante lost out on this deal. If he holds out until game 10, he'll lose nealry $5mil, money he'll probably never recoup even if signs a big bonus elsewhere next season. Sorry, but that seems a poor strategy, Asante. Good luck, I'd love to see you play every game for us this year...

 

[Mack Herron]

Some players have peculiar values

They play football for a living, yet it's all about the money. I wonder if Milloy or Law are really happier having taken a few extra bucks to languish in obscurity versus multiple millions and the notoriety and fame that comes with championships and stability?

 

[checkedout]

screw the greedy bastard! I hope he rots in hell! The offer was more than fair.
Good bye AS!

 

[makoute]

Re: Some players have peculiar values

They play football for a living, yet it's all about the money. I wonder if Milloy or Law are really happier having taken a few extra bucks to languish in obscurity versus multiple millions and the notoriety and fame that comes with championships and stability?

Ty Law doesn't seem to care. And it's all about the money for the NFL, so why shouldn't it be all about the money for the players.

 

[Ring 6]

Yep. He is what he's grown into. A guy who is a mediocre tackler and gets burn as often as he does make a play. He's a guy who teams were NOT afraid of and who teams continued to throw at even into the play-offs.

Samuel doesn't strike fear into teams the way Sanders did. Or the way Haynes did.




Chefs at my favorite resteraunt don't average 2.75 million a year (which is what I believe the league average is - 32 teams - $112 million per team on the cap - 1300 players or so). So, Andy, your analogy doesn't really apply.

We're talking about a guy who has issues tackling. A guy who teams aren't scared by and who they continued to thorw at throughout the play-offs. Sorry, but Samuel isn't that good a player. He's not worth more than Richard Seymour. He's not worth more than Ty Warren for that matter. Samuel certainly hasn't shown himself to be a leader in the defense the way I'd expect from a TOP corner.

So, convince me, Andy. Convince me that Samuel is worth $30 million over the next 3 years.

I just dont know what games you have been watching. It is ludicrous to say he was bruned as often as he made plays. Please point out all of these times last season that he was burned. I saw him make a boatload of plays. I saw very few instances of him getting burned.
The Moreland comment you have making is assinine. For Earthwind Moreland to get half the ints Samuel did he would have to have good coverage and be in position for them half as often, which wouldn't come close to happening.
You seem to think Ints only count if you leap over the guy and make a Herculian play. The fact is that Ints happen because you play good coverage, are in position, and take advantage of a poor decision of throw. No one out there is picking off passes that are good decisions and good throws, but MANY corners allow passes to be completed that are not the best decisions or throws, but they are not in position like a good corner would be.

The worst you could characterize his tackling FOR A CORNER is average.
I do not need to justify him being worth 3 yrs and 30 mill, thats not my point. There may be no one in the league that such a contract would be a wise investment in.
My point is that its ridiculous to judge the mans character based on the fact that he sees a market where he may be able to get that much money, so he is pursuing his options.


Why does the analogy have anything to do with what the chef makes. Are you saying that you are the person able to judge what everyone else should think enough money is and at what point of income they shouod take anything offered because its so much money? Thats a weak standpoint to argue from.
(By the way, Samuel has made less than that number you threw out there COMBINED so far in his career)

Finaly, you seem to be implying a corner is only good if teams refuse to throw to his side of the field. That means there have been about 3 good corners in NFL history.
To caterogize teams as throwing at him is totally inaccurate. That implies they are trying to exploit him, which is wrong. Not to mention that we play 90% zone defense so offense NEVER, EVER pick on or avoid a player in a zone defense. Passing schemes agaisnt a zone defense are about building a set of complementary routes that CREATE an open receiver. You run progressions based on which route is featured (most likely to come open against that coverage based on what the other routes are) then check down the list. There isnt a corner that has ever played who wouldn't have balls thrown to their area in a zone.
Finally, if you have followed the Pats, which I know you have, there is one dynamic that proves that what you think you see in coverage may not be what is really there.
How many times have you seen a corner making the tackle (or int or break up the pass) 1-2 yards downfield in the flat? Ive seen it 100s of times.
If corners are covering the short flat often in our scheme, how are you determining what their responsibliites are when you say they are being thrown at
I'm rambling now, but I'm not saying Samuel is the greatest corner in the game, but clearly you are way to far on the negative side on him.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think the problem in a nutshell is that Belichick sees him as a very good young corner IN THIS SYSTEM, and team Samuel sees him as an emerging superstar. There were some bizarre and tortured quotes from his agent in the Globe piece this morning, particularly about their "options", but none moreso than this:

“He was the NFL interception leader last year. He’ll be a Hall of Famer, hopefully,” Shavers replied. “Depending on what circles you’re in, he’s one of the best young corners in the game. "

This is what happens when you begin to believe your own hype. I'm sure his team has replayed all the national broadcasts where the talking heads who barely knew he existed began to wax poetic about his performances late last season (after he regained his LCB slot due to injury) and how he was obviously being snubbed for the pro bowl. What they also need to do for balance is rewatch some of the national broadcast coverage of the 2005 season when according to the same talking heads we had no secondary.

The truth as always lies somewhere in between.

 

[Tunescribe]

Are we going to have to suffer this crap every year now? Who will be next year's "prima donna"?

"Gee, they're disrespecting me. I only get $8 million this year. I think I'll hold out."

Makes me wanna puke.

 

[bobgeorge]

The "future Hall of Famer" quote is disturbing. I thought this was only about Champ Bailey money. And he was not the interception leader, he was tied with Bailey.

Sorry, folks, but Samuel is looking only for the big payday as I wrote the other day. He has two rings and probably could care less if he ever gets another one. If he is making this big a stink over $8 million versus $10 million, the Patriots are simply going to have to plan for the future without him.

Bob G

 

[fair catch fryar]

The "future Hall of Famer" quote is disturbing. I thought this was only about Champ Bailey money. And he was not the interception leader, he was tied with Bailey.

Sorry, folks, but Samuel is looking only for the big payday as I wrote the other day. He has two rings and probably could care less if he ever gets another one. If he is making this big a stink over $8 million versus $10 million, the Patriots are simply going to have to plan for the future without him.

Bob G

IMO, Seems to me that they're already one step ahead of Asante in that respect. With Asante our 'D' is certainly better, but if healthy, I think our secondary will manage things just as well.

 

[Pats726]

There is pretty much no reason for him NOT to at least threaten to hold out. Why not put pressure on the Pats? Actually there IS a big reason NOT to do it..you look like you are greedy and that an offer of 7 mill just isn't enough. Sorry..I think he looks like a dink in doing that..and if PR is important to him, he would not have. I find that a very LARGE character flaw..and if I were another team, I would stay away. It apparently does NOT mean much to him how he looks. But you ARE correct his value is high now..but if pushing for that is the most important..why not?? SHow how ungrateful one is to a team that is WILLING to pay over 7 mill a year for. Half the year was over and how many would have laughed if at that point one would have said he was going to be franchised. He had a great second half of a season..That's all.and whether that is a continuation in his play or just a peak that he will never get to, it's obvious he is pushing for that..

So let's look to next year. The most likely scenario for Asante next year is that he plays well, but maybe gets only 5-6 picks and doesn't have a standout performance like the 2 last year.

I think here one wonders what Asante will do?? If he signs the tender gets into camp..then he could have a solid year again..more possible..but on teh otehr hand..if he sits out a lot..say till even 6-7..he loses money AND I believe sets himself up for a poor year. He's not coming in quick and in a game or two be back in without a lot of prep. THAT is not going to happen. The longer he stays out the less likely a chance at a solid year. So I think the next week's are huge for him.

In order to franchise him again the Pats would need to give him a 20% bump to $9.4M. Unlikely to happen. The Pats will have higher priorities (Ty Warren). I can't see them franchising him just to trade him. That would be a **** move on their part. It also means that they run the risk of paying him the $9.4. And only real benefit would be keeping him away from the Jets. So Asante will hit the free agent market next year when teams still have a huge chunk of cap room and he might even be the best CB on the market at that point. He'll get his deal then. Though he has to be a little frustrated that he can't get a longer term deal with more security he's not going to be too frustrated to turn down a $7.79M check.

I think there's a lot of assumptions there..The large one is that he's going to play as close this year as last..and that is an open question.

There is still plenty of time for this to get crazy, but at this point I think Asante is behaving very rationally. I really don't see things getting ugly at this point. Asante will be in a Pats uniform this season.

I do think things WERE ugly a few months ago..a team offers a player a Franchise tag of almost 8 million and the player spits in teh face of the team..NOT enough for him. Is that rational?? I think THAT is hardly rational at all..GREEDY absolutely..but rational..no. Ugly?? VERY close to that earlier in negotiations. Even his agent wanted him to keep quiet..he did not. I think he plays and maybe there will not be a thought of a Franchise tag...One can basically arrange a trade and then TAG him and trade. That does happen. (T.Jones..a fwe years ago) But he may not even be close to where he was last year and it might all be a moot point.

 

[danny88]

I just dont know what games you have been watching. It is ludicrous to say he was bruned as often as he made plays. Please point out all of these times last season that he was burned. I saw him make a boatload of plays. I saw very few instances of him getting burned.
The Moreland comment you have making is assinine. For Earthwind Moreland to get half the ints Samuel did he would have to have good coverage and be in position for them half as often, which wouldn't come close to happening.
You seem to think Ints only count if you leap over the guy and make a Herculian play. The fact is that Ints happen because you play good coverage, are in position, and take advantage of a poor decision of throw. No one out there is picking off passes that are good decisions and good throws, but MANY corners allow passes to be completed that are not the best decisions or throws, but they are not in position like a good corner would be.

The worst you could characterize his tackling FOR A CORNER is average.
I do not need to justify him being worth 3 yrs and 30 mill, thats not my point. There may be no one in the league that such a contract would be a wise investment in.
My point is that its ridiculous to judge the mans character based on the fact that he sees a market where he may be able to get that much money, so he is pursuing his options.


Why does the analogy have anything to do with what the chef makes. Are you saying that you are the person able to judge what everyone else should think enough money is and at what point of income they shouod take anything offered because its so much money? Thats a weak standpoint to argue from.
(By the way, Samuel has made less than that number you threw out there COMBINED so far in his career)

Finaly, you seem to be implying a corner is only good if teams refuse to throw to his side of the field. That means there have been about 3 good corners in NFL history.
To caterogize teams as throwing at him is totally inaccurate. That implies they are trying to exploit him, which is wrong. Not to mention that we play 90% zone defense so offense NEVER, EVER pick on or avoid a player in a zone defense. Passing schemes agaisnt a zone defense are about building a set of complementary routes that CREATE an open receiver. You run progressions based on which route is featured (most likely to come open against that coverage based on what the other routes are) then check down the list. There isnt a corner that has ever played who wouldn't have balls thrown to their area in a zone.
Finally, if you have followed the Pats, which I know you have, there is one dynamic that proves that what you think you see in coverage may not be what is really there.
How many times have you seen a corner making the tackle (or int or break up the pass) 1-2 yards downfield in the flat? Ive seen it 100s of times.
If corners are covering the short flat often in our scheme, how are you determining what their responsibliites are when you say they are being thrown at
I'm rambling now, but I'm not saying Samuel is the greatest corner in the game, but clearly you are way to far on the negative side on him.

Ouch, Andy takes it to da bruinz! Nice post right there.

 

[Pats726]

Are we going to have to suffer this crap every year now? Who will be next year's "prima donna"?

"Gee, they're disrespecting me. I only get $8 million this year. I think I'll hold out."

Makes me wanna puke.

Very true...yuk!! Always one in the bunch who things "he's better"....
Do people remember the Seymour hold out in camp and HOW that was dealt with on BOTH sides?? class and to the point and with a win-win situation in mind.
The problem is in many ways with those LESS talented..they want the big bucks even though they are 2nd tier. Branch..Samuel...BOTH in teh same boat. BOTH will get overpaid..but NOT by the Patriots plain and simple. I can't even complain about Givens or Graham leaving for more..NOT the same!