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You know, the 49er's scored 37 points against the Cardinals in week 12. The 49er's had the worst offense in the league, averaging 237 yds/g and only 13.7 points per game.

Does that mean anything? NO.


And about that Dolphins game, we had a 28-0 lead at halftime. Brady then played one more quarter and just forced it to Moss. The game was in the bag. But if you want to nit pick, we can. We won that game 28-7, thats a 21 point win. The Giants biggest victory of the season was a 31-10 win against the Falcons, 21 points. So you call the Patriots game pathetic, even though the Giants didn't win a single game by a greater margin. Thanks for continuing to support the Patriots case.

I never called the Patriots game "pathetic"... "reading too much between the lines syndrom" really inflicts these boards.

You missed the point:

=> It's been a while since you blew someone out of the water like you were doing early in the season.

Agree or disagree ?
 
You made a strawman argument, forgive me for calling you on it.



Don't make me call you Mr. Strawman again. I would never put Bradshaw in Sayers category based on less then half a season of play time.

He has been outstanding when he has been on the field, and he adds a whole new dimension to the Giants running game.

Oh and for the record he was no "undrafted"... 7th round pick. :)

You seem to compliment Bradshaw and at the same time say he won't make a difference ? Make up your mind.

As for shutting down MJD, was that because of your defense ?

More stats for you => he had 6 carries all game!!

I didn't make any such argument. Every point I've made, and the ones by the other posters here, have made perfect sense, whether you choose to ignore them or not.

I've tried to engage you in reasonable discussion, while many others have just told you to get lost. It's starting to look like they were right.

You are VASTLY overrating Bradshaw, just like you vastly overrated Kevin Dockery yesterday. A Giants fan vastly overrating his own players? Call 60 Minutes!

I can say that Bradshaw is a nice complementary player, who's having a respectable postseason, without agreeing with you that he's going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl. If you want to talk 2nd running backs, Kevin Faulk is not only the superior player, but also more likely to have an impact.

As for MJD having 6 carries, it kind of speaks for itself. The fact was, the Jags didn't run effectively, no matter how you decide you want to explain it away.
 
god do I love trolls I ask a few simple question but yet no response. I love the smell of fear in the afternoon
 
I never called the Patriots game "pathetic"... "reading too much between the lines syndrom" really inflicts these boards.

You missed the point:

=> It's been a while since you blew someone out of the water like you were doing early in the season.

Agree or disagree ?

Disagree. I guess it depends on your definition of "a while". We handled the Steelers and Dolphins pretty convincingly down the stretch. In the playoffs, the Pats have played playoff football against playoff-caliber teams. Neither the Jags nor the Chargers game was a blowout, but both were sound enough. Anytime you win by more than one score in the playoffs, you can call that a good day.

Edit: In case you were curious, both the Jaguars and Chargers were better in every conceivable way (stats, talent) than the Giants, and both were just as hot coming in.
 
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I never called the Patriots game "pathetic"... "reading too much between the lines syndrom" really inflicts these boards.

You missed the point:

=> It's been a while since you blew someone out of the water like you were doing early in the season.

Agree or disagree ?

What I don't get is your reference of time. The Miami game was less than a month ago, week 16. We've only played 3 games since then, so how is that considered early in the season?
 
I didn't make any such argument. Every point I've made, and the ones by the other posters here, have made perfect sense, whether you choose to ignore them or not.

I've tried to engage you in reasonable discussion, while many others have just told you to get lost. It's starting to look like they were right.

You are VASTLY overrating Bradshaw, just like you vastly overrated Kevin Dockery yesterday. A Giants fan vastly overrating his own players? Call 60 Minutes!

I can say that Bradshaw is a nice complementary player, who's having a respectable postseason, without agreeing with you that he's going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl. If you want to talk 2nd running backs, Kevin Faulk is not only the superior player, but also more likely to have an impact.

As for MJD having 6 carries, it kind of speaks for itself. The fact was, the Jags didn't run effectively, no matter how you decide you want to explain it away.

What I type and what you understand are 2 very very different things.

When did I say the following:
Bradshaw "is going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl."

You accuse me of it, without giving my quote... and then you wonder why I call you Mr. Strawman.

Here is what I have been saying:

The combination of Jacobs/Bradshaw is far superior then Jacobs alone.
For this reason I purpose the Giants will have even more success running the ball then they did in the first game.

Here is what I have NOT been saying:

"Bradshaw is going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl"
"Bradshaw is the next Gayle Sayers"

I hope that resolves your confusion.
 
Don't make me call you Mr. Strawman again. I would never put Bradshaw in Sayers category based on less then half a season of play time.

He has been outstanding when he has been on the field, and he adds a whole new dimension to the Giants running game.

Oh and for the record he was no "undrafted"... 7th round pick. :)

I'm just curious.... when did a 4.2 ypc become 'outstanding? I ask because that's what he's averaging this postseason. During the regular season, he only ran the ball a total of 23 times, and his average was skewed because one of those runs was an 88 yard run.


Here are the playoff numbers:

Bradshaw

39-163 - 4.2

Jacobs:

48-155 - 3.2


Now, how is an offensive tandem that's putting up

87-318 - 3.66

supposed to be such a great running game?
 
What I type and what you understand are 2 very very different things.

When did I say the following:
Bradshaw "is going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl."

You accuse me of it, without giving my quote... and then you wonder why I call you Mr. Strawman.

Here is what I have been saying:

The combination of Jacobs/Bradshaw is far superior then Jacobs alone.
For this reason I purpose the Giants will have even more success running the ball then they did in the first game.

Here is what I have NOT been saying:

"Bradshaw is going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl"
"Bradshaw is the next Gayle Sayers"

I hope that resolves your confusion.

I should come up with a fun name for you, but it's not worth my time.

First of all, I'm not sure what your definition of "game changer" is, but since you're arguing that having Bradshaw and Jacobs as opposed to just Jacobs will change the outcome of the game, then I think I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying, chief.

The only thing I'm remotely confused about is how it's possible for one person to be so obstinate in the face of overwhelming facts against his argument.

You have argued in favor of the Jacobs/Bradshaw running attack making a difference, without acknowledging what many have pointed out:

1) The Patriots run defense is playing better. Undeniable fact.
2) The Patriots played an extraordinarily vanilla scheme against the Giants for 3 quarters. When they mixed it up in the 4th, the wheels came off. Undeniable fact.
3) Maroney and Faulk have outproduced Jacobs and Bradshaw in the postseason. Undeniable fact.

Where are your facts, chief?
 
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Here is what I have been saying:

The combination of Jacobs/Bradshaw is far superior then Jacobs alone.
For this reason I purpose the Giants will have even more success running the ball then they did in the first game.


Here is my curiosity. How are the Giants going to be getting the ball so much more that they will have sufficient snaps for Jacobs, Manning and Bradshaw? This is like the Law of Conservation of Matter--there are only so many balls to go around, and you seem to be trying to say that Jacobs will get the ball more, Bradshaw will get the ball a good amount of the time, and Eli will have another 4TD output. Or are you saying that the Giants will succeed by taking more running snaps, thereby removing the chances of Eli having another 4TD game? Do you feel that the Giants stand a better chance of winning this game by giving the ball to Jacobs and Bradshaw and not Manning?
 
I actually hope that the Giants plan is to run the ball. I am much more concerned about the short passing game which has caused us problems (Ravens, Eagles, Jags) Our run D has been solid all year. Us Pats fans remember giving up 180 yards to both the Dolphins and Steelers (and 6 yards a carry) in games that were blow outs. We led the Fins by 40 points at the half and both teams basically decided to play prevent offense and defense the rest of the game. (still not sure why this game was not brought up more in defense of the Pats not running up the score) Same thing happened when the Steelers chose to run it at the end instead of trying to pass and make it more respectable. We also lost the time of possession in both of these blowouts. Should we be concerned about this? The only team that we had trouble stopping was the Ravens and most of that was in the 3rd quarter. Hats off to them, Ogden had a great game and so did McGahee. In the playoffs we forced the best running team in football (Jacksonville) to basically abandon the run. Same thing happened with SD. For the Giants to win they will need to consistently move the chains in the air like they did in week 17 and come up with some key sacks. If Manning can keep playing like he has I think the game will be close until the 3rd quarter like the Jacksonville game. If he struggles at all the game will be over early.
 
1) Run Jacobs and Bradshaw. Jacobs is 264 pounds and 6"4. In front of Jacobs the Giants have FB Madison Hedge**** who is 6"3 and 266 pounds.

How will your old linebackers stand up to that kind of pounding ?


Clearly, Seau and Bruschi are starting inside linebackers on an undefeated team because they can't stop the run. You're an idiot.

Also don't forget Giants have Bradshaw a small, quick, yet powerful running back. He missed the first game against NE, but will be playing in the SB.

This is true. Truth be told, Bradshaw worries me a hell of a lot more than Jacobs. That said, you might want to go back and see how MJD, Fred Taylor, Darren Sproles, LT, and Michael Turner did against the Pats' run D. They were all better than your decent RB.

Advantage Giants.

Based on what?

2) If the running game gets going it will open up the play action pass. Boss, Toomer, and Smith will be open on the short passes as your LBers will be too concerned about the running game. Can you say "play action pass" ?

Congratulations, that is football 101. You're assuming that execution will happen, though, and that's the entire point. It usually doesn't against a good defense like the Pats.

Incidentally, you could switch out the names and use this justification as a reason for why every offense will always win the game versus every defense. That should have kinda been a red flag, don't you think? I mean, anyone who wasn't an idiot would have realized that and not posted it.

Advantage Giants

You're... not objective.

3) Hobbs vs. Burress. A total mismatch. Hobbs is too short to cover Burress.
Burress will be a deep threat all game, even if he doesn't make one deep catch.

Advantage Giants.


Yup, that's right. The one legitimate weapon on this offense is going to have to be double teamed. Either that or Belichick will devise an exotic scheme where the safeties just stand around all game, doing nothing.

4) Steve Smith is a rookie who was injured for a good part of the season. He is coming on strong and can make clutch receptions. Can Gay and/or Meriweather keep up with him ?

Steve Smith is a nobody who has accomplished nothing.

Advantage Giants.

I stand corrected. You're not just subjective; you're deluded

When the Giants are on Defense:

1) Strahan, Osi, and Tuck. All great pass rushers. Giants might be able
to get pressure on Brady and force him to rush his throws.


You may want to go back and see how teams that rely on strong edge rushers have fared against the Pats. In a word: horribly. That is due to our offensive line, in part, but also to Brady's ability to avoid the edge rush by stepping up into the pocket. The only way to get to him with any consistency is for your tackles to collapse the pocket. Nobody has done that yet, and I'm pretty damn confident that the Giants won't be the first.

Not really an advantage against your OL, but it could be.

2) Giants have great depth and CB. Madison, Webster, Ross, Dockery and McQuarters. All of these guys could be starters and have started throughout the season. Dockery is expected back for the SB.


Yes, the Giants do have 5 differnet CB on the roster. That's great. Too bad none of them are good enough to single-cover (effectively) any of the Pats' top 4 receivers (well, maybe Madison could cover Gaffney, I dunno).

Dockery is small and quick, a perfect player to lineup against Welker. Dockery missed the first game and Welker had a big day.

It's pretty common to see Welker singled. After all, the guy isn't going to beat you for a huge chunk of yards. That's why he always catches so many passes. Better CBs than Dockery have tried to take him out of the game, and failed. When Brady sees Welker actually being doubled, that's a pretty good sign that Nicco or Moss are going to get hit deep.

Moss was contained by Madison in the first game until he got injured... then Moss lit up the Giants. Madison will be back for the SB.

You are advocating single covering Moss with Sam Madison? Wow, you're stupid, even by troll standards. As an aside, I really, sincerely, honestly hope that the Giants try this.

Stalworth/Gaffney vs. Ross/Webster is a draw.

Uhh.... No it isn't

Obviously NE gets the overall advantage

So all of the matchups are even, but NE has an overall advantage? Way to contradict yourself, dumb****.

3) Watson/Maroney/Faulk as receivers.... this is what the Giants must stop and the Giants LBers are great at coverage. Lucky the Giants have extra CBs to help contain Faulk.

Won't they be busy covering the WRs, as you just laid out? After all, since you're such a smart, well-informed guy, you must know that Faulk plays primarily out of the shotgun spread this year.

Advantage NE.

4) Maroney vs. Giants Rush defense.

Giants rush defense is solid.

The Chargers' rush defense was 'solid' too. So was the Jags. Didn't stop Maroney from shredding either of them. Not to mention that the rush D will be playing from a pretty major disadvantage, as, if they load up too much, Brady will recognize it and audible into a pass.

Advantage Giants.

Probably better to end now, since I'm just running out of insults. Points for effort, but that doesn't disguise the fact that you're a troll idiot. Giving reasons and making comparisons doesnt mean a damn thing when your comparisons are both contrary to actual fact and incredibly slanted towards your undertalented, lucky-to-be-here team.

Should be a close game: Giants 38 New England 34

So I'm sure you have a lot of money riding on the Giants to cover the spread, then, since you're so confident in this score. I predicted 38-17, so I'm pretty comfortable with the spread.
 
I never called the Patriots game "pathetic"... "reading too much between the lines syndrom" really inflicts these boards.

You missed the point:

=> It's been a while since you blew someone out of the water like you were doing early in the season.

Agree or disagree ?

Actually, you missed the point, which is this: it doesn't matter.

The Patriots have decisively won both playoff games so far. The objective of the game isn't to run up as many points as possible; that happened early in the year when Belichick was instilling a 60 minute mentality into his team. You know, the kind of mentality that, if your guys had it, they might have actually stood a chance in week 17.
 
You have argued in favor of the Jacobs/Bradshaw running attack making a difference, without acknowledging what many have pointed out:

1) The Patriots run defense is playing better. Undeniable fact.
2) The Patriots played an extraordinarily vanilla scheme against the Giants for 3 quarters. When they mixed it up in the 4th, the wheels came off. Undeniable fact.
3) Maroney and Faulk have outproduced Jacobs and Bradshaw in the postseason. Undeniable fact.

Where are your facts, chief?

Let's begin by analyzing your claim #2)

You wrote:
"2) The Patriots played an extraordinarily vanilla scheme against the Giants for 3 quarters. When they mixed it up in the 4th, the wheels came off. Undeniable fact."

4th Quarter => Patriots, 2 TDs (15 points), Giants 1 TD (7 points).

BUT the Pats had 5 possessions compared to the Giants 3.
The final possession they just killed the clock so we won't count that.
Still 4 possessions to 3... and you have 1 more score.

Now let's discuss that 1 extra score.
=> Brady to Moss for a 65 yard TD.

On the play before Madison ripped his stomach muscles (missed 2 playoff games!!)... lucky it was an under throw and Moss dropped it.
The next play Moss went deep again and was wide open.

Madison will be back for this game.

What else happened in that 4th quarter ?

Giants took some bad penalties => Personal Foul on Toomer, holding on Toomer.

What else happened ?

Manning and Burress had a miscommunication error and Hobbs got an easy pick.


Does that mean you are banking your SB hopes on injuries, penalties, and miscommunication ?
 
What I type and what you understand are 2 very very different things.

When did I say the following:
Bradshaw "is going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl."

You accuse me of it, without giving my quote... and then you wonder why I call you Mr. Strawman.

Here is what I have been saying:

The combination of Jacobs/Bradshaw is far superior then Jacobs alone.
For this reason I purpose the Giants will have even more success running the ball then they did in the first game.

Here is what I have NOT been saying:

"Bradshaw is going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl"
"Bradshaw is the next Gayle Sayers"

I hope that resolves your confusion.

So what you're saying is that Bradshaw's presence will cause the Giants to have significantly greater success in the running game... but that does not mean that he will be a game changer? Care to explain how that's even possible? Quit digging yourself deeper.

Does that mean you are banking your SB hopes on injuries, penalties, and miscommunication ?

Penalties and Miscommunications, yes, actually. That's a large part of why the Pats are so great: they don't make the stupid mistakes that other teams make. And once again, if you think that Madison can single cover Moss, you're deluded. Jax and Chargers chose to die by someone else, and they both had better #1 corners than Madison. The best you can hope for is that doubling Moss on every play will actually take him out of the game (it probably won't), at which point you still have to deal with everyone else.
 
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Manning and Burress had a miscommunication error and Hobbs got an easy pick.


Wait wait wait...Hobbs v Burress was one of YOUR advantages...

This pretzel logic is tough to follow.
 
Does that mean you are banking your SB hopes on injuries, penalties, and miscommunication ?
What are you banking on your Super Bowl hopes? ...... your delusional analysis. Just a reminder, the Giants aren't playing at home against the Patriots this time.
 
Does that mean you are banking your SB hopes on injuries, penalties, and miscommunication ?

I'm banking my Super Bowl hopes on the fact that the Patriots are a better team in every respect.

Miscommunication? Dude, Burress on Hobbs was YOUR greatest advantage.

And yes, kid Manning has an illustrious track record of tossing up picks at unfortunate moments. You can call it miscommunication if you want, but just because he's been mistake-free for three straight games, don't suddenly think it's Peyton Manning under center.
 
Let's begin by analyzing your claim #2)

You wrote:
"2) The Patriots played an extraordinarily vanilla scheme against the Giants for 3 quarters. When they mixed it up in the 4th, the wheels came off. Undeniable fact."

4th Quarter => Patriots, 2 TDs (15 points), Giants 1 TD (7 points).

BUT the Pats had 5 possessions compared to the Giants 3.
The final possession they just killed the clock so we won't count that.
Still 4 possessions to 3... and you have 1 more score.

Now let's discuss that 1 extra score.
=> Brady to Moss for a 65 yard TD.

On the play before Madison ripped his stomach muscles (missed 2 playoff games!!)... lucky it was an under throw and Moss dropped it.
The next play Moss went deep again and was wide open.

Madison will be back for this game.

What else happened in that 4th quarter ?

Giants took some bad penalties => Personal Foul on Toomer, holding on Toomer.

What else happened ?

Manning and Burress had a miscommunication error and Hobbs got an easy pick.


Does that mean you are banking your SB hopes on injuries, penalties, and miscommunication ?

You actually made 1 good point there. Moss would have had a TD on the first bomb if it wasn't for Brady under throwing it. Now, how often do you think that will happen? On top of that, Moss was able to get open on the very next play.

On that next play, a lot of people thought they were looking to go to Moss. Thats not the case. It was supposed to be a short pass to Welker (on the right side, hook route) but Brady read the defense trying to trap Welker, he looked to Moss, saw him open and bam, TD.

And honestly, your excuse "It wasn't our starting CB!" is weak. A good football team has depth. If your only good CB are the 2 starters, your secondary isn't going to be very good.

And some fact, the Giants CB's accounted for 8 INT. The Patriots CB's accounted for 10 INT.
The Giants had 15 total INT. The Patriots had 19 total INT.
 
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I realize the fact New England is a great team, that being said the Giants do have some advantages over New England:

When Giants are on Offense:

1) Run Jacobs and Bradshaw. Jacobs is 264 pounds and 6"4. In front of Jacobs the Giants have FB Madison Hedge**** who is 6"3 and 266 pounds.

How will your old linebackers stand up to that kind of pounding ?

Also don't forget Giants have Bradshaw a small, quick, yet powerful running back. He missed the first game against NE, but will be playing in the SB.

Advantage Giants.

2) If the running game gets going it will open up the play action pass. Boss, Toomer, and Smith will be open on the short passes as your LBers will be too concerned about the running game. Can you say "play action pass" ?

Advantage Giants

3) Hobbs vs. Burress. A total mismatch. Hobbs is too short to cover Burress.
Burress will be a deep threat all game, even if he doesn't make one deep catch.

Advantage Giants.

4) Steve Smith is a rookie who was injured for a good part of the season. He is coming on strong and can make clutch receptions. Can Gay and/or Meriweather keep up with him ?

Advantage Giants.

When the Giants are on Defense:

Your offense is too damn good, not much teams can do to stop it.
However Giants do have some advantages:

1) Strahan, Osi, and Tuck. All great pass rushers. Giants might be able
to get pressure on Brady and force him to rush his throws.

Not really an advantage against your OL, but it could be.

2) Giants have great depth and CB. Madison, Webster, Ross, Dockery and McQuarters. All of these guys could be starters and have started throughout the season. Dockery is expected back for the SB.

Dockery is small and quick, a perfect player to lineup against Welker. Dockery missed the first game and Welker had a big day.

Moss was contained by Madison in the first game until he got injured... then Moss lit up the Giants. Madison will be back for the SB.

Stalworth/Gaffney vs. Ross/Webster is a draw.

Obviously NE gets the overall advantage

3) Watson/Maroney/Faulk as receivers.... this is what the Giants must stop and the Giants LBers are great at coverage. Lucky the Giants have extra CBs to help contain Faulk.

Advantage NE.

4) Maroney vs. Giants Rush defense.

Giants rush defense is solid.


Advantage Giants.



Should be a close game: Giants 38 New England 34

My guess if you were stuck in a paper bag it would be, ADVANTAGE: Paperbag
 
What I type and what you understand are 2 very very different things.

When did I say the following:
Bradshaw "is going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl."

You accuse me of it, without giving my quote... and then you wonder why I call you Mr. Strawman.

Here is what I have been saying:

The combination of Jacobs/Bradshaw is far superior then Jacobs alone.
For this reason I purpose the Giants will have even more success running the ball then they did in the first game.

Here is what I have NOT been saying:

"Bradshaw is going to be a game changer in the Super Bowl"
"Bradshaw is the next Gayle Sayers"

I hope that resolves your confusion.
Bradshaw can't even carry MJD's jock, so stop overrating the rookie.
 
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