Giant Advantages ?

[leek21]

But you don't reverse the TOP by running, you reverse it by stopping NE's offense. Even when NE is pass heavy, they still run a lot of time off the clock.

Did you miss my line about the Giants coming up with big stops or forcing a turnover ?

Let's get this straight:

I concede your offense is great... I am giving them 34 points in the game.

I just think your defense has some holes... last time Giants scored 35 points... give them another field goal this time.... Giants 38 Pats 34

 

[TripleOption]

Did you miss my line about the Giants coming up with big stops or forcing a turnover ?

Let's get this straight:

I concede your offense is great... I am giving them 34 points in the game.

I just think your defense has some holes... last time Giants scored 35 points... give them another field goal this time.... Giants 38 Pats 34

We both know you don't even believe that, so just stop.

You truly think the Giant will outscore the Pats? Not gonna happen.

 

[GhostOfFoxboro]

Did you miss my line about the Giants coming up with big stops or forcing a turnover ?

Let's get this straight:

I concede your offense is great... I am giving them 34 points in the game.

I just think your defense has some holes... last time Giants scored 35 points... give them another field goal this time.... Giants 38 Pats 34

I will ask you again, and please answer:

Why are you cherry picking the stats concerning the Patriots defense against the run from the regular season, but constantly talking about how the Giants have been better in the post-season? Why are you pitting, in your mind, the play-off Giants against the regular season Patriots?

Out of every team who played more than one post-season game this year, the Patriots have the BEST rush defense. And they defended against two of the best running teams in the post-season.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Did you miss my line about the Giants coming up with big stops or forcing a turnover ?

Let's get this straight:

I concede your offense is great... I am giving them 34 points in the game.

I just think your defense has some holes... last time Giants scored 35 points... give them another field goal this time.... Giants 38 Pats 34

Let's set aside the specific stats for a moment, and I'll sum up what you're hoping for:

That was the most points the Patriots defense allowed in a game game all year. 38 points by the Giants in the SB would match their season high. Most have acknowledged that that was the best game the Giants played all year, and the worst the Patriots played.

So you are asking for the Patriots to play worse than their worst game all year, and for the Giants to play better than they've played all year.. On the biggest stage of the year..

I'm sure you wished that we lived in a world where that had a better than outside chance of happening, but here in reality, it doesn't.

 

[Ring 6]

Let me break it down so you can understand:

1) Giants have had a significant change in the past 5 weeks to their running game. ie. Jacobs is now sharing carries with Bradshaw.
=> Feel free to use the Giants regular season stats if you insist. I don't mind, and have never protested against it.

2) Patriots have not made any significant change to their run defense.
=> I used the Pats regular season stats because they are more represtantive then 2 games.

Your protest to me seems like frustration as opposed to sound logic.

Of course the Pats have made significant changes to their run defense.
ITS CALLED COACHING.
Additionally, the playoff games have been a little closer than the regular season, so the Pats run D stats are better, because the change is they are defending the run honestly, rather than being run on when up by 28 points.

As far as a significant change by the Giants running game, all that has happened is they are DIFFERENT, in that they pull Jacobs out of the game. There is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that they are BETTER because of it.

 

[Ring 6]

Did you miss my line about the Giants coming up with big stops or forcing a turnover ?

Let's get this straight:

I concede your offense is great... I am giving them 34 points in the game.

I just think your defense has some holes... last time Giants scored 35 points... give them another field goal this time.... Giants 38 Pats 34

And I concede both your offense and defense are mediocre.

 

[Jimke]

Let's set aside the specific stats for a moment..

That was the most points the Patriots defense allowed in a game game all year. 38 points by the Giants in the SB would match their season high. Most have acknowledged that that was the best game the Giants played all year, and the worst the Patriots played.

So you are asking for the Patriots to play worse than their worst game all year, and for the Giants to play better than they've played all year.. On the biggest stage of the year..

I'm sure you wished that we lived in a world where that had a better than outside chance of happening, but here in reality, it doesn't.

I can't believe that the Patriots defense would allow 38 points in a

game. The encouraging thing from the AFC Conference Championship Game

was the play of our defense especially Tedy Bruschi and Junior Seau.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

I'm not basing it on Jacobs alone. Bradshaw missed the first game.
The Giants running attack is at least twice as good when you combine the Power of Jacobs and the speed and quickness of Bradshaw.

It's hard to stop.

This is the quote I want referred to on Sunday evening on this board....

 

[Watson's IQ]

And I concede both your offense and defense are mediocre.

Just so he doesn't think you're making this up.

Yards:

16th in the league on offense, just behind Houston and Washington (Pats #1)

7th in the league on defense (The Pats, who "have some holes" were #4)

Points:

14th in the league on offense, again outscored by Houston (Pats #1 [All time])

17th in the league on defense, just behind the immortal Bears and Panthers (Pats, again who "have some holes" were #4)

If you want to compare postseason stats, we can do that too.

 

[leek21]

Your points make the implication that changes in the way a unit plays are only based on changes in personnel. That's dumb.

I never made that implication, Mr. Strawman.

The Patriots run defense was never as bad in the first place as people claimed. As many have pointed out, and you've conveniently ignored, many of those stats were accumulated late in games when the Patriots were basically conceding rushing yards.

Fiar enough... but the counter argument also works... your defense hasn't looked as bad as it is because teams are regularly playing from behind making it easier to defend against.

Furthermore, if you want to talk about how the Giants run defense displays a different dynamic with Bradshaw and Jacobs sharing carries, than you also have to acknowledge that the Pats run defense has clamped down when it counted most.

You mean Giants offense above.

Pats run defense hasn't changed significantly... Giants have added a dynamic new runner who has speed, quickness, and runs with Marion Barber type intensity... you do remember how many Pats it took to bring Barber down don't you ?

Another point you've yet to touch on in your "cogent" analysis. For all your talk of the Giants strong running game, the Patriots have had SIGNIFICANTLY more production out of their running backs so far in the post-season than the Giants have. This is not a coincidence, but the result of a specific strategy of holding Maroney back to keep him fresh for the postseason.

I hope the Pats run try to run the ball!!

 

[Watson's IQ]

If you want to compare postseason stats, we can do that too.

You know what, let's..

Looking at the Giants in the postseason (out of 12 teams)

Yards:

Offense is 8th out of 12 (Pats #2)

Defense is 5th out of 12 (Pats #7) Hey, they won one!

Points:

Offense is 7th out of 12 (Pats #4)

Defense is in a 3 way tie for 2nd out of 12 (Sadly, the Pats are #1)
(Just to remind everyone, according to Leek the Pats defense "has some holes")



We could keep going all day, but every single minute of it the Pats will still be significantly better, postseason, regular season, we'll go simulate it in Madden if you want.

 

[GhostOfFoxboro]

I
Pats run defense hasn't changed significantly...

Not personnel-wise but it's playing a hell of a lot better than they did in the regular season. Does that not mean anything to you? That the Patriots, our of all of the play-off teams (which are ostensibly the best teams in the NFL) has played better run defense then all but two (and those two, the Titans and the Redskins only have 1 game apiece to judge them on in the post season).

 

[elandadem]

According to legend, prior to Super Bowl XXV, Bill Belichick said "If Thurman Thomas goes over 100 yards and we lose, I'll quit the business."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=wojnarowski_adrian&id=1660695

It wouldn't surprise me if he utters a similar quote this weekend, replacing "Thurman Thomas" with "Jacobs" and/or "Bradshaw".

They are not the domineering one-two running back punch you seem to believe. The Patriots already conquered that hurdle (JAX). When they need to be stopped, they will be. When it's to the Patriots' advantage to concede the run, they will run up the yards - but not the score.

Controlling the clock is not likely to benefit the Giants, the Patriots have shown time and time again that they can score quickly - when they want to. The can also eat up the clock, if the mood hits them.

Love your team, by all means, but don't delude yourself. XLII will not play out like XXXVI - the Patriots will not be playing the role of the Rams.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Pats run defense hasn't changed significantly... Giants have added a dynamic new runner who has speed, quickness, and runs with Marion Barber type intensity... you do remember how many Pats it took to bring Barber down don't you ?

I'm going to ignore your name calling, since I'm sure I've stooped that low myself at times.

I think we've stumbled upon the Kevin Dockery redux here. Everyone was willing to concede that Bradshaw has played well, but you have tipped your hand significantly in overrating the kid.

Speed, quickness, Marion Barber type intensity.. Dude, this kid is an undrafted rookie (before anyone makes a Tom Brady comp, I'm not disputing he was a good find) with a grand total of 23 regular season carries, and you're describing him like he's the next Gale Sayers. The kid ran wild against the Bills, a bottom-ten rush defense. In the postseason, he's had a respectable average of 4.1 ypc sharing time, with a long gain of 11 yards. Forgive me if I don't think he's making the difference.

The Pats already shut down MJD, who is better in every way than Ahmad Bradshaw. Sorry, but that's the facts.

 

[leek21]

And I concede both your offense and defense are mediocre.

Funny how a mediocre team scored 35 points against your 'great' team in the last meeting.

The Pats have been faltering... and a big fall could come in the SB. Even you guys are conceding the games have been closer in the playoffs.

Since you guys love stats so much I will back it up with a stat:

You beat San Diego 38-14 in the regular season. It was a blow out.

In the playoffs you pulled off a close win... 21-12.... against a team with no Thomlinson, an injured Rivers and Gates.

Actually when was the last time you had a blow out ?

Week 16 against the lowly Dolphins. 28-7 (28 points, is that all ?)

 

[Watson's IQ]

Funny how a mediocre team scored 35 points against your 'great' team in the last meeting.

The Pats have been faltering... and a big fall could come in the SB. Even you guys are conceding the games have been closer in the playoffs.

Since you guys love stats so much I will back it up with a stat:

You beat San Diego 38-14 in the regular season. It was a blow out.

In the playoffs you pulled off a close win... 21-12.... against a team with no Thomlinson, an injured Rivers and Gates.

Actually when was the last time you had a blow out ?

Week 16 against the lowly Dolphins. 28-7 (28 points, is that all ?)

You've gone off the reservation. You started as a cogent poster with arguments to make and I think many including myself enjoyed discussing them with you.

Now the Pats "are faltering" and ready for "a big fall". This is the same garbage Patriots fans put up with from trolls every week.

You could have been so much more leek21, you coulda been a contender!

 

[Satchboogie3]

Funny how a mediocre team scored 35 points against your 'great' team in the last meeting.

The Pats have been faltering... and a big fall could come in the SB. Even you guys are conceding the games have been closer in the playoffs.

Since you guys love stats so much I will back it up with a stat:

You beat San Diego 38-14 in the regular season. It was a blow out.

In the playoffs you pulled off a close win... 21-12.... against a team with no Thomlinson, an injured Rivers and Gates.

Actually when was the last time you had a blow out ?

Week 16 against the lowly Dolphins. 28-7 (28 points, is that all ?)

You know, the 49er's scored 37 points against the Cardinals in week 12. The 49er's had the worst offense in the league, averaging 237 yds/g and only 13.7 points per game.

Does that mean anything? NO.


And about that Dolphins game, we had a 28-0 lead at halftime. Brady then played one more quarter and just forced it to Moss. The game was in the bag. But if you want to nit pick, we can. We won that game 28-7, thats a 21 point win. The Giants biggest victory of the season was a 31-10 win against the Falcons, 21 points. So you call the Patriots game pathetic, even though the Giants didn't win a single game by a greater margin. Thanks for continuing to support the Patriots case.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Funny how a mediocre team scored 35 points against your 'great' team in the last meeting.

The Pats have been faltering... and a big fall could come in the SB. Even you guys are conceding the games have been closer in the playoffs.

Since you guys love stats so much I will back it up with a stat:

You beat San Diego 38-14 in the regular season. It was a blow out.

In the playoffs you pulled off a close win... 21-12.... against a team with no Thomlinson, an injured Rivers and Gates.

Actually when was the last time you had a blow out ?

Week 16 against the lowly Dolphins. 28-7 (28 points, is that all ?)

How much of the time during those games did the patriots NOT run a vanilla scheme I understand that you are a Giants fan and that you for some very odd reason are delusional about the prowess of your team aganst mine. but seriously here is a few qurestions for you

who would your rather have 2 weeks to prepare a team for a a big important game Tom coughlin or BB

who would you rather having running the offense in a a big game
Eli Manning or Tom Brady

who's experence in Big games would your rather have the Pats or the Giants

Which teams record would you rather have 18-0 or 13-6

which would you rather have the highest scoring offense in history (589) or the giants scoring out put (373)

which would you rather have a record point differaital (315) or your Giants 22

who you would rather have catching the ball Moss,Welker,Watson,Stallworth, Gaffney,Faulk or Burress, Toomer, Boss the other Steve Smith, S. Moss and Jacobs.

and hey All you Pats fans feel free to respond to

 

[GhostOfFoxboro]

Read this article and tell me where it's wrong. If it's not wrong, tell me again about the Giant's advantages:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2117_Mismatch_of_the_Century.html

 

[leek21]

I'm going to ignore your name calling, since I'm sure I've stooped that low myself at times.

You made a strawman argument, forgive me for calling you on it.

I think we've stumbled upon the Kevin Dockery redux here. Everyone was willing to concede that Bradshaw has played well, but you have tipped your hand significantly in overrating the kid.

Speed, quickness, Marion Barber type intensity.. Dude, this kid is an undrafted rookie (before anyone makes a Tom Brady comp, I'm not disputing he was a good find) with a grand total of 23 regular season carries, and you're describing him like he's the next Gale Sayers.

Don't make me call you Mr. Strawman again. I would never put Bradshaw in Sayers category based on less then half a season of play time.

He has been outstanding when he has been on the field, and he adds a whole new dimension to the Giants running game.

Oh and for the record he was no "undrafted"... 7th round pick.

The kid ran wild against the Bills, a bottom-ten rush defense. In the postseason, he's had a respectable average of 4.1 ypc sharing time, with a long gain of 11 yards. Forgive me if I don't think he's making the difference.

The Pats already shut down MJD, who is better in every way than Ahmad Bradshaw. Sorry, but that's the facts.

You seem to compliment Bradshaw and at the same time say he won't make a difference ? Make up your mind.

As for shutting down MJD, was that because of your defense ?

More stats for you => he had 6 carries all game!!