Per 98.5: Pats won't renew Brandon Lloyd's deal

[Jimke]

$3 million bonus due soon (probably within a few days of the start of the new NFL year, March 12. If the Pats release Lloyd before that is due then they carry over $2 million in dead money on to this year's cap; if they don't release him then they pay that money, and Lloyd counts $4.5 million against the cap this year.

Which of the following will take LLoyd's place on the 53 man roster and
contribute: Aiken, Ebert, Holmes, Slater? Also, what GOOD wide receiver
do you expect to sign with the money saved? I think no good receiver
with sign for LLoyd money.

 

[Ivan]

No coach in the history of the game I'd rather have than BB but, let's not act like he doesn't make mistakes.

He makes mistakes but he always has very good reasons for moves like this, and if he sees Lloyd as a guy who really doesn't care enough to work hard then he's not paying the bonus and is moving on. He's not leaving Brady without weapons and he is going to have multiple options to address WR this offseason. And if past behavior is an indicator he is going to load up at the position much the way he did at TE last season. I think the Brady deal indicates they will get a deal done with Welker and I expect Edelman back at a pretty low cost deal as he really doesn't have the production to be much of a commodity on the open market. I don't expect Branch back but Stallworth will likely return and they can also use Hernandez in Lloyd's role if they want him on the field with Welker and Gronkowski. Add a couple of WR's in free agency and use a high pick at WR (Tavon Austin or Keenan Allen)and they should have a good WR corps heading into next season.

 

[Ivan]

Which of the following will take LLoyd's place on the 53 man roster and
contribute: Aiken, Ebert, Holmes, Slater? Also, what GOOD wide receiver
do you expect to sign with the money saved? I think no good receiver
with sign for LLoyd money.

Stallworth may take his place on the roster but Hernandez may take his place on the field with Ballard joining the TE corps. Hernadez provides the big target and has more elusiveness and explosiveness than Lloyd, but for that matter so does the statue of Ray Lewis going up in Baltimore. Lloyd is good possession WR but does nothing with the ball and they can replace his production without too much of a problem. I think the real problem with LLoyd is attitude and Belichick doesn't want any more AD types in his lockerroom.

 

[Tunescribe]

GREAT football talk today at 98.5 10-2 -- all Pats and NFL with Breer. :rocker:

 

[ctpatsfan77]

GREAT football talk today at 98.5 10-2 -- all Pats and NFL with Breer. :rocker:

As long as he's not national-sourpuss Breer. . . .

 

[tonyto3690]

Lloyd played ok but at the level he's being paid. He had a couple good games, niners he was electric and huge in our comeback, and of we had that Lloyd every game I'd be thrilled but the other fifteen games he was lackadaisical and the only big plays he ever got were designed play action shots that Edelman or any other decent wr with speed can get.

Would be okay going into season with welker, stallworth, Edelman, branch slater as our guys. We need to truly devote ourselves to the run and be a run first team anyways. Load up on good tight ends and put the resources into the defense and hope our franchise tight ends can earn their pay check.

On top of that, Hernandez is basically a wide receiver anyways, and people forget how well Edelman was playing at wr.

 

[JackBauer]

Would be okay going into season with welker, stallworth, Edelman, branch slater as our guys.

So you'd be okay with one of the worst, if not the worst receiving corps in the NFL. And if, heaven forbid, Welker goes down that becomes probably the worst receiving corps in the past decade?

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm confused, there's nothing to renew, do you mean they won't extend his contract? He's under contract for the upcoming season, he's not a free agent. Are they saying they are going to release him before his bonus is due?

Correction. He has an option bonus. That means that the contract only continues if the option is picked up. If it's not picked up, he becomes a free agent.

 

[Jimke]

He makes mistakes but he always has very good reasons for moves like this, and if he sees Lloyd as a guy who really doesn't care enough to work hard then he's not paying the bonus and is moving on. He's not leaving Brady without weapons and he is going to have multiple options to address WR this offseason. And if past behavior is an indicator he is going to load up at the position much the way he did at TE last season. I think the Brady deal indicates they will get a deal done with Welker and I expect Edelman back at a pretty low cost deal as he really doesn't have the production to be much of a commodity on the open market. I don't expect Branch back but Stallworth will likely return and they can also use Hernandez in Lloyd's role if they want him on the field with Welker and Gronkowski. Add a couple of WR's in free agency and use a high pick at WR (Tavon Austin or Keenan Allen)and they should have a good WR corps heading into next season.

The last I heard on Welker last year was 2 years for 12 mil. The Pats
a hell of a long way to go. BB left Brady with no weapons in 2006. One
of the replacements dropped a key pass which may have lost the AFC
championship that year.

 

[Triumph]

Exactly. Seems some people are amazingly glib about getting rid of Lloyd and his 900+ yards. Would you rather that figure be 1200 from more yac? Sure. But before we say cut the bum and roll the dice on a rookie, realize that those receiving yards ain't too bad.

You cannot say that Lloyd met or exceeded expectations when he knows the offense and has worked with McDaniels for a number if seasons. Lloyd underperformed in the # 1 scoring offense in the NFL with a HOF QB delivering the porkskin.The Pats laid out a 3 Mil bonus for Lloyd and all he had to do was go out and earn it. How much better can it get?

Lloyd had a 57% catch rate which kind sucks to be honest. Brady had a 63% completion percentage when he normally is in the 66% range. Brady hasnt been at 63% since pre 2007 Tom Brady NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com One doesnt have to suspend disbelief to think that Lloyds drops brought Brady completion % down.

Gronk out, Edelman out and AARP Branch. The Pats can get Lloyds production for a fraction of the cost with David Nelson or Hartline.

 

[JackBauer]

Gronk out, Edelman out and AARP Branch. The Pats can get Lloyds production for a fraction of the cost with David Nelson or Hartline.

How on earth are you going to get Lloyd's production for a fraction of the cost from Hartline?

 

[Ivan]

The last I heard on Welker last year was 2 years for 12 mil. The Pats
a hell of a long way to go. BB left Brady with no weapons in 2006. One
of the replacements dropped a key pass which may have lost the AFC
championship that year.

I agree that their last reported offer to Welker isn't even in the ballpark, and you are right that Belichick left them woefully short at WR in 2006, but I do think he learned from that season and has not repeated the mistake since, and I don't think he will do this season. It makes no sense, at least to me, that Brady would redo his deal the way he did unless the Patriots were ramping up for the remainder of his career. Is it possible that isn't the case, yes, but it wouldn't make any sense. I don't believe a new deal with Welker was any condition in the new deal for Brady, but I do think there is a quiet understanding that the purpose is to improve their team and put them over the top.

 

[DaBruinz]

The last I heard on Welker last year was 2 years for 12 mil. The Pats
a hell of a long way to go. BB left Brady with no weapons in 2006. One
of the replacements dropped a key pass which may have lost the AFC
championship that year.

The deal Welker turned down was 2yrs at 8M per year. The reason he turned it down was that he wanted a longer term deal. Supposedly, they are talking about a new deal now. Hopefully they get something done since it's clear that Brady wants him back.

They DO need someone else who can line up opposite Welker, particularly if they are dumping Lloyd. And there are some good guys out there. Greg Jennings being one of them. You also have Hartline, Collie, Henderson, and Brandon Gibson. If they want a possession receiver, they could give Massaquoi a try-out as well. There is one other option, but he'd have to do some serious butt-kissing.. Randy Moss...


IMHO, they need to get Brady back to finding the open receiver instead of looking for Welker/Gronk all the time. That will solve more problems than anything else.

 

[Jimke]

Lloyd played ok but at the level he's being paid. He had a couple good games, niners he was electric and huge in our comeback, and of we had that Lloyd every game I'd be thrilled but the other fifteen games he was lackadaisical and the only big plays he ever got were designed play action shots that Edelman or any other decent wr with speed can get.

Would be okay going into season with welker, stallworth, Edelman, branch slater as our guys. We need to truly devote ourselves to the run and be a run first team anyways. Load up on good tight ends and put the resources into the defense and hope our franchise tight ends can earn their pay check.

On top of that, Hernandez is basically a wide receiver anyways, and people forget how well Edelman was playing at wr.

Lloyd's contract was about one half of what the average receivers were
getting last year. The Pats got a bargain .

 

[Ivan]

The deal Welker turned down was 2yrs at 8M per year. The reason he turned it down was that he wanted a longer term deal. Supposedly, they are talking about a new deal now. Hopefully they get something done since it's clear that Brady wants him back.

They DO need someone else who can line up opposite Welker, particularly if they are dumping Lloyd. And there are some good guys out there. Greg Jennings being one of them. You also have Hartline, Collie, Henderson, and Brandon Gibson. If they want a possession receiver, they could give Massaquoi a try-out as well.


IMHO, they need to get Brady back to finding the open receiver instead of looking for Welker/Gronk all the time. That will solve more problems than anything else.

Hartline won't be cheap but he won't break the bank either and looks like a good fit overall, especially to fill Lloyd's role. He will cost more than Lloyd did but not too much more. Re-signing Welker and adding Hartline would be a good start at dealing with WR, add in Edelman and Stallworth and draft a WR high in this draft and they will have a really good WR corps.

 

[Spiral]

How on earth are you going to get Lloyd's production for a fraction of the cost from Hartline?

I used this in another Lloyd thread a while ago, but here it is again:

In 2011, TB completed 401 passes without Lloyd. With Lloyd in 2012, TB completed--you guessed it--401 passes. I'm not saying that you can plug anyone into that spot, but Lloyd didn't have much of an impact. He's clearly not worth the 5th highest cap number on the team. If Lloyd had a cap number of $2M or so, there would be no discussion. It's a value-based decision, just like dozens of others the Patriots make every year. Making these types of cuts is what keeps this team competitive.

 

[jason423]

Since I know my site has caused some confusion on the cap charges of cutting LLoyd I just posted this over at overthecap. If you can click on the link to view thats cool(that is my gratuitous plug) but hopefully this clears up anything from my site on the charges. I also did officially move everything over to overthecap now so the main pages off nyjetscap should just take you there in the future. Thanks again for the support over the last year or so when Ive hosted on my jets site.

I know one of the recent stories swirling around New England besides the Brady extension has been the contract of WR Brandon Lloyd. A few people have noted to me that there are some discrepancies in the salary cap savings presented here and in other articles so I just wanted to explain.

Lloyd has an option bonus of $3 million dollars due to him this year, which will add cap charges of $1.5 million a year to the remaining two years on his contract. Since these bonuses are considered likely they are almost always included in a players salary cap figures which is why Lloyd has a $4.5 million dollar cap number this season. However most of the time I also include in dead money those bonuses as if they were picked up since in my experience most options are paid out in some manner. Due to this is really helps to simplify the process of maintaining such a large database which I think most of the readers would understand.

So if Lloyd was cut before the option bonus is due the Patriots would only absorb a dead money hit of $2 million which would represent a cap savings of $2.5 million dollars not the loss of cap dollars I have listed on his page. Cutting him also saves them of $5 million in cash obligations which makes him a prime candidate to be released especially with such other appealing options on the open market. The Patriots have been active in free agency or trades when addressing the wide receiver position in the past going back to trading for Wes Welker and Randy Moss to the recent signing of Lloyd. Given the fact that Mike Wallace, Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe, and Victor Cruz will all hit the open market in a few weeks and that the Patriots have ample cap room to work with cutting Lloyd makes alot of sense for the team.

Clarification on Patriots Deal with Brandon Lloyd

 

[Jimke]

The deal Welker turned down was 2yrs at 8M per year. The reason he turned it down was that he wanted a longer term deal. Supposedly, they are talking about a new deal now. Hopefully they get something done since it's clear that Brady wants him back.

They DO need someone else who can line up opposite Welker, particularly if they are dumping Lloyd. And there are some good guys out there. Greg Jennings being one of them. You also have Hartline, Collie, Henderson, and Brandon Gibson. If they want a possession receiver, they could give Massaquoi a try-out as well. There is one other option, but he'd have to do some serious butt-kissing.. Randy Moss...


IMHO, they need to get Brady back to finding the open receiver instead of looking for Welker/Gronk all the time. That will solve more problems than anything else.

DaBruinz
I'm not 100% sure of this but Welker complained late in the year that the
last best offer had been reduced. Moss would at least know the system.

 

[JackBauer]

I used this in another Lloyd thread a while ago, but here it is again:

In 2011, TB completed 401 passes without Lloyd. With Lloyd in 2012, TB completed--you guessed it--401 passes. I'm not saying that you can plug anyone into that spot, but Lloyd didn't have much of an impact. He's clearly not worth the 5th highest cap number on the team. If Lloyd had a cap number of $2M or so, there would be no discussion. It's a value-based decision, just like dozens of others the Patriots make every year. Making these types of cuts is what keeps this team competitive.

I'm not talking about production; I have little doubt that Hartline could give us what Lloyd gave us last year.

I'm wondering how we plan on getting that for a "fraction of the cost"?

 

[Jimke]

It will be interesting to see if BB covers his butt with regard to WR before
free agency begins (Edleman, Welker) and during the early stages. I hope
he doesn't wait out the process and sift thru the dregs.