Defensivley, Belichick was beaten at his own game...

[D-cleater]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Maybe the team will get the chip on its shoulder back with this kind of press. Thats what they need.

I would think that the D has to feel a little disrespected that Buffalo chooses this week to make a QB switch. They face us, the Jets and Jaguars before a bye, and then Baltimore. They need to seriously limit Fitzpatrick, or whatever his name is, to get some swagger going. Buffalo cannot have a big day, especially passing.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Maybe the team will get the chip on its shoulder back with this kind of press. Thats what they need.

I would think that the D has to feel a little disrespected that Buffalo chooses this week to make a QB switch. They face us, the Jets and Jaguars before a bye, and then Baltimore. They need to seriously limit Fitzpatrick, or whatever his name is, to get some swagger going. Buffalo cannot have a big day, especially passing.

There should be no way in the world that Buffalo scores more than 14 points in this game....if they do then throw the white flag on upcoming games against Manning,Rodgers,Roethlisberger and Rivers

 

[51Hits]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

There should be no way in the world that Buffalo scores more than 14 points in this game....if they do then throw the white flag on upcoming games against Manning,Rodgers,Roethlisberger and Rivers

It can't b much worse than Sanchez setting career highs against you.

I'm not going to jump into this pissing match but let me say this. Defensive ranking while it has meaning and it obviously shows the Patriots are an above avrage defense. But that PPG is skewed by the ****ty offenses they face. Since 2005, the Patriots when going into a game against a top five offense almost never win. Hell it's amazing when it's even a competitive game.

Show me FIVE high flying offenses they've played well against since 2005. That's five years ago, since BB is so perfect, surely someone can show this right? You wont though. And again, I mean a good performance against a premier offense, please no stats against one of their huge stat padding wins against teams like the Cardinals or something.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

It can't b much worse than Sanchez setting career highs against you.

I'm not going to jump into this pissing match but let me say this. Defensive ranking while it has meaning and it obviously shows the Patriots are an above avrage defense. But that PPG is skewed by the ****ty offenses they face. Since 2005, the Patriots when going into a game against a top five offense almost never win. Hell it's amazing when it's even a competitive game.

Show me FIVE high flying offenses they've played well against since 2005. That's five years ago, since BB is so perfect, surely someone can show this right? You wont though. And again, I mean a good performance against a premier offense, please no stats against one of their huge stat padding wins against teams like the Cardinals or something.

Dude, they were second in points allowed, 15 worse than #1 over four years. They also were 49-15 in those 4 years.
In one of them they beat every team. You must have shown up in 2009.
Schedule is a weak argument to begin with, schedule over a 4 year period is a ridiculous argument.

 

[51Hits]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Dude, they were second in points allowed, 15 worse than #1 over four years. They also were 49-15 in those 4 years.
In one of them they beat every team. You must have shown up in 2009.
Schedule is a weak argument to begin with, schedule over a 4 year period is a ridiculous argument.

Considering I posted under BionicPatriot until for whatever reason that account got messed up, you just had to throw something out there to help you huh? I've been posting here since 03, so not I didn't just come last year.

And schedule is weak to argue with? WTF? So if a defense gets lit up every time it faces a real offense, then just gets by or beats the opponents .500 or below your telling me there's no argument there?

That's like asking which 5-0 team is impressive. The one who beat winning teams, or the one who has yet to play a team over .500?

Look up the stats, the Pats have looked fine sure, against average offenses. There's no elite offenses they've shut down, and I'm still waiting for that list of 5 games by the way?

The 2006 Patriots squad was notorious for beating us on the jokes and losing to the big boys. See who their W's and L's came against, I'm pretty sure it's 3 good teams and one bad one.

In 2005 that was the case as well Once Harrison went down. This was the very start to the preview of garbage D we would watch over the years.

In 08, they beat up on the bad teams and lost to the good. I saw somewhere in this thread you said the 2008 team had impressive away victories. They had one you could call anything decent, and that's still aginst a team that didn't go to the playoffs that year (Jets) Surely you don't think beating Seattle or Oakland on the road is impressive?

And for 09, I don't think I even need to bring this one up really. This team defined soft. Bad 2nd half team, terrible at making the game ending plays to decide the game, etc. How many good offenses did they stop last year?

Sorry Andy, not trying to fight but you're fighting a losing battle here.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Disappointed in this article, and not for being a homer. I understand objective criticism, but this zeroes on two games and tries to paint a picture of the last seven years.

Points Allowed (in the entire NFL)

2009: 5th
2008: 8th
2007: 4th
2006: 2nd
2005: 17th
2004: 2nd
2003: 1st
2002: 17th
2001: 6th

Again, this article is inane. The NFL is a huge passing league now; tons of secondaries get lit up every week.

CHFF is really plummeting from their once deep, insightful articles. They don't even use historical stats or facts. They might as well be the ESPN Pre-Game show hosts.

And yes, I have a personal vendetta against them anyway. A few years ago I posted on here something called "The Relativity Rankings" which used a statistical formula to rank teams based on their margin of victory and strength of their opponent on offense and defense. I had never seen this idea applied (in fact I tried to use it against Vegas) and I spent a lot of time on it. Within two days, some weasel had his own column on their site with this exact method. This is a site that makes a lot of money, and they were giving this guy his own column. It was my original idea. I emailed and called them a few times to explain that this is plagiarism and even the wording was very similar to my post on this message board. They kicked tires for three weeks, saying they'd look into it and did nothing.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, here the CHFF article dated November 18, 2007. http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_1860_The_Theory_of_Football_Relativity.html

I can't find the link to my article on PatsFans.com for some reason, but I'll edit this if I find it. It was literally two days before that article appeared on their site and had some of the exact wording and examples.

Update: I found one of them here http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...triots-have-better-defense-than-steelers.html , but I had a much more in-depth one that I'm looking for. Notice the date, four days before the CHFF article.

UPDATE: Yeah, here it is http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../63208-debunking-easy-competition-theory.html . I even showed it to them and they ignored it. Bunch of unprofessional goons at CHFF. No big deal, just plagiarism, let it go. Let's write dumb kneejerk articles, sell out, and make money.

These guys are not professional. Plagiarism is a serious charge and they just ignored it and used my work for their profit.

 

[51Hits]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Disappointed in this article, and not for being a homer. I understand objective criticism, but this zeroes on two games and tried to paint a picture of the last seven years.

Points Allowed (in the entire NFL)

2009: 5th
2008: 8th
2007: 4th
2006: 2nd
2005: 17th
2004: 2nd
2003: 1st
2002: 17th
2001: 6th

Again, this article is inane. The NFL is a huge passing league now; tons of secondaries get lit up every week.

CHFF is really plummeting from their once deep, insightful articles. They don't even use historical stats or facts. They might as well be the ESPN Pre-Game show hosts.

And yes, I have a personal vendetta against them anyway. A few years ago I posted on here something called "The Relativity Rankings" which used a statistical formula to rank teams based on their margin of victory and strength of their opponent on offense and defense. Within two days, some weasel had his own column on their site with this exact method. It was my original idea. I emailed and called them a few times to explain that this is plagiarism and even the wording was very similar to my post on this message board. They kicked tires for three weeks, saying they'd look into it and did nothing.

Lets look at...The Colts. Good, OK D. Nothing more

I don't see them getting lit up by good offenses left and right. Yeah when they're bad they're bad. Hell at least they made Brees work in the super bowl, the Patriots couldn't touch the man last season.

Anyway you want to slice it, this defense is average at best. They handle their business aginst the mediocre/losing teams, which is mostly what the schedule is full of, thus their decent rankings.

But go to all the game those seasons in which they faced the Colts or any other elite offense, I assure you every game is a 300+ yard nightmare. Then you'll see them play teams like the Bills, which is where the good defensive rankings come from But again, you too, show me 5games in the last 5 years where the Patriots defense shut down a top 5 NFL scoring offense.

 

[Nikolai]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

But again, you too, show me 5games in the last 5 years where the Patriots defense shut down a top 5 NFL scoring offense.

Define shut down, please.

EDIT - Ah well, I'm going to bed, but I'll posit these to you (using pro-football reference OSRS ratings for offense proficiency). Didn't bother looking at '05. Got what I needed from 2006-8, with a borderline case in 2009.

Team (NFL rank) - # pts

2006
Bengals (7th) - 13 pts
Bears (tied-4th) - 13 pts

2007
Chargers (6th) - 14 pts
Chargers (6th) - 12 pts (AFCCG)

2008
Cardinals (tied-6th) - 7 pts

2009
Only one in the top ten - Falcons (tied-10th) - 10 pts

 

[51Hits]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Define shut down, please.

2 Scores or fewer. You wont find a game like that against the Colts and Chargers. Except for 2007 on which they had 2 very solid performances against them, but that season was peerfect. One bright spot since 2005 does little to encourage me.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

2 Scores or fewer. You wont find a game like that against the Colts and Chargers. Except for 2007 on which they had 2 very solid performances against them, but that season was peerfect. One bright spot since 2005 does little to encourage me.

So you are looking at the 2008 and 2009 games versus two teams that typically average 30 points per game, for a total of a three game sample pool, and using that as an argument?. Pats have done a good job versus Indy (especially in '08) when their defense is actually running. The problem is they get gassed by the third quarter and collapse. What coach can help in that situation?/

Belichick can't work miracles. If he doesn't have the talent, there obviously won't be many shutouts. That's not to say there's more than a handful of other coaches who can gameplan a defense on his level.

 

[Nikolai]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

2 Scores or fewer. You wont find a game like that against the Colts and Chargers. Except for 2007 on which they had 2 very solid performances against them, but that season was peerfect. One bright spot since 2005 does little to encourage me.

Didn't see this post, but please take a look at my above post. It's not a murderer's row, but the defense has risen up occasionally against top scoring offenses. In 2009, not so much.

 

[HomelandDef]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Disappointed in this article, and not for being a homer. I understand objective criticism, but this zeroes on two games and tries to paint a picture of the last seven years.

Points Allowed (in the entire NFL)

2009: 5th
2008: 8th
2007: 4th
2006: 2nd
2005: 17th
2004: 2nd
2003: 1st
2002: 17th
2001: 6th

Again, this article is inane. The NFL is a huge passing league now; tons of secondaries get lit up every week.

CHFF is really plummeting from their once deep, insightful articles. They don't even use historical stats or facts. They might as well be the ESPN Pre-Game show hosts.

And yes, I have a personal vendetta against them anyway. A few years ago I posted on here something called "The Relativity Rankings" which used a statistical formula to rank teams based on their margin of victory and strength of their opponent on offense and defense. I had never seen this idea applied (in fact I tried to use it against Vegas) and I spent a lot of time on it. Within two days, some weasel had his own column on their site with this exact method. This is a site that makes a lot of money, and they were giving this guy his own column. It was my original idea. I emailed and called them a few times to explain that this is plagiarism and even the wording was very similar to my post on this message board. They kicked tires for three weeks, saying they'd look into it and did nothing.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, here the CHFF article dated November 18, 2007. Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: The Theory of Football Relativity

I can't find the link to my article on PatsFans.com for some reason, but I'll edit this if I find it. It was literally two days before that article appeared on their site and had some of the exact wording and examples.

Update: I found one of them here http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...triots-have-better-defense-than-steelers.html , but I had a much more in-depth one that I'm looking for. Notice the date, four days before the CHFF article.

UPDATE: Yeah, here it is http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../63208-debunking-easy-competition-theory.html . I even showed it to them and they ignored it. Bunch of unprofessional goons at CHFF. No big deal, just plagiarism, let it go. Let's write dumb kneejerk articles, sell out, and make money.

These guys are not professional. Plagiarism is a serious charge and they just ignored it and used my work for their profit.

I was going to post the points allowed stats. This guy ignores 10 years of data and cherrypicks one half against the Jets and one game against Drew Brees. He makes an incredibly weak case, there is nothing of substance backing it up.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Considering I posted under BionicPatriot until for whatever reason that account got messed up, you just had to throw something out there to help you huh? I've been posting here since 03, so not I didn't just come last year.

And schedule is weak to argue with? WTF? So if a defense gets lit up every time it faces a real offense, then just gets by or beats the opponents .500 or below your telling me there's no argument there?

That's like asking which 5-0 team is impressive. The one who beat winning teams, or the one who has yet to play a team over .500?

Look up the stats, the Pats have looked fine sure, against average offenses. There's no elite offenses they've shut down, and I'm still waiting for that list of 5 games by the way?

The 2006 Patriots squad was notorious for beating us on the jokes and losing to the big boys. See who their W's and L's came against, I'm pretty sure it's 3 good teams and one bad one.

In 2005 that was the case as well Once Harrison went down. This was the very start to the preview of garbage D we would watch over the years.

In 08, they beat up on the bad teams and lost to the good. I saw somewhere in this thread you said the 2008 team had impressive away victories. They had one you could call anything decent, and that's still aginst a team that didn't go to the playoffs that year (Jets) Surely you don't think beating Seattle or Oakland on the road is impressive?

And for 09, I don't think I even need to bring this one up really. This team defined soft. Bad 2nd half team, terrible at making the game ending plays to decide the game, etc. How many good offenses did they stop last year?

Sorry Andy, not trying to fight but you're fighting a losing battle here.

Schedule is a weak argument because all teams face reasonably similar schedules and over a 4 year period, there is very little difference
If your argument is the team that allowed the 2nd fewest points allowed more to the good teams than the bad, well, duh. Every team allows more to the good than the bad.
Please find me the team that allowed more points but somehow dominated good teams.
Its a cop out argument.
Remember the article is saying we have been a defensive laughingstock since 2005, when in fact we allowed the second fewest points. Feel free to point all the many numerous teams that were more effective allowing more points that our laughing stock team.
Oh and in 2006, you are wrong.
They allowed 17,27,17,21 in losses to Denver, Indy, Jets and Miami and beat the 13-3 Bears, 14-2 Chargers, 10-6 Jets twice.

 

[captain stone]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick Defense the cure for what ails you

Are you saying we need new blood at the HC position?
I would not go that far......yet.

I would not go that far, either.

What I am saying is that:
- Bill needs more help in the FO;
he's lost more people there than he's hired.

- Bill needs real talent, not JAGs, at OLB & DE & CB & RB & OL.

- Bill needs to hire legitimate coordinators.
(If RAC & Charlie could return as DC & OC, then why couldn't they return here?)
Bill O'Brien is simply not an NFL-calibre OC;
his qualifications & experience are laughably inadequate.

- Bill needs more assistant coaches;
again, he's lost more there than he's hired.

- Bill needs better game-planning & game management;
hiring more & better coaches would allow him to concentrate more on these duties.

The longer Bill takes to clean, or attempt to clean, these messes,
the longer we'll continue to lose road games & PO games; that is, if we even make the POs.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Disappointed in this article, and not for being a homer. I understand objective criticism, but this zeroes on two games and tries to paint a picture of the last seven years.

Points Allowed (in the entire NFL)

2009: 5th
2008: 8th
2007: 4th
2006: 2nd
2005: 17th
2004: 2nd
2003: 1st
2002: 17th
2001: 6th

Again, this article is inane. The NFL is a huge passing league now; tons of secondaries get lit up every week.

CHFF is really plummeting from their once deep, insightful articles. They don't even use historical stats or facts. They might as well be the ESPN Pre-Game show hosts.

And yes, I have a personal vendetta against them anyway. A few years ago I posted on here something called "The Relativity Rankings" which used a statistical formula to rank teams based on their margin of victory and strength of their opponent on offense and defense. I had never seen this idea applied (in fact I tried to use it against Vegas) and I spent a lot of time on it. Within two days, some weasel had his own column on their site with this exact method. This is a site that makes a lot of money, and they were giving this guy his own column. It was my original idea. I emailed and called them a few times to explain that this is plagiarism and even the wording was very similar to my post on this message board. They kicked tires for three weeks, saying they'd look into it and did nothing.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, here the CHFF article dated November 18, 2007. Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: The Theory of Football Relativity

I can't find the link to my article on PatsFans.com for some reason, but I'll edit this if I find it. It was literally two days before that article appeared on their site and had some of the exact wording and examples.

Update: I found one of them here http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...triots-have-better-defense-than-steelers.html , but I had a much more in-depth one that I'm looking for. Notice the date, four days before the CHFF article.

UPDATE: Yeah, here it is http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../63208-debunking-easy-competition-theory.html . I even showed it to them and they ignored it. Bunch of unprofessional goons at CHFF. No big deal, just plagiarism, let it go. Let's write dumb kneejerk articles, sell out, and make money.

These guys are not professional. Plagiarism is a serious charge and they just ignored it and used my work for their profit.

FYI, I posted this exact same idea for the 2006 playoffs and several other times (just search my created threads from a year ago and longer).

That said, I know for a fact that Byrne lurks in these boards, he even has an account over on PatriotsPlanet. I agree with you that they plagiarized the idea and whether they stole it from me or you it is immaterial.

 

[51Hits]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Define shut down, please.

EDIT - Ah well, I'm going to bed, but I'll posit these to you (using pro-football reference OSRS ratings for offense proficiency). Didn't bother looking at '05. Got what I needed from 2006-8, with a borderline case in 2009.

Team (NFL rank) - # pts

2006
Bengals (7th) - 13 pts
Bears (tied-4th) - 13 pts

2007
Chargers (6th) - 14 pts
Chargers (6th) - 12 pts (AFCCG)

2008
Cardinals (tied-6th) - 7 pts

2009
Only one in the top ten - Falcons (tied-10th) - 10 pts

Forget 2007 when the offense was putting them ahead by 30 points, I want real performances when the offense didn't make the offense one dimensional, but if you wanna use that sure. And the Bears? Are you seriously telling me the Bears in 06 were a dominant offense, or are you hoping your stat makes it look better? Great D, but terrible offense. That's a poor game.

The Cardinals we're a 9-7 team that season that got hot in the playoffs. Isn't that why EVERYONE here says the Jets are mediocre? That's not an elite team, but I guess it's nice being able to shut down a 9-7 in the snow.

2009, and that's no explosive offense. Matt Ryan and co. are decent, but not explosive yet.

Out of your list, I'm impressed with 2 games and that's because the Chargers are the only good team on that list, besides the Bears but their offense was not good I don't care what stats want to indicate. That offense cost them a super bowl. So lets review

2006 - They beat a mediocre Bengals team (this is why I wanted ELITE teams, not 8-8, 9-7 teams, but you having to show teams like this reinforces what I've been saying all along) they beat a Bears offense that was mediocre they were one of the weakest SB teams of all time.

07 - Fantastic team, no one was stopping the Pats that year..Except for the Giants :[ This is the only kind of strategy that will help our D. We need our offense to be explosive similar to 07 to help them make the opposing offense one dimensional.

08 - This was a Cardinals team that was playing its worst football of the year at that time. They were also in a snow storm. Not bad, but again...It's a 9-7 team. Yes they went to a super bowl by some miracle fluke run, but at that time they were still far from a juggernaut.

09 - I think everyone can agree last years D sucked, plain and simple. No need to explain here.

So looking back, I'm impressed with 2 wins. Because only 3 of those wins came against serious teams, one of which was a horrendous offense, so it's not like the D had a dominating performance or anything. also, the Cardinals and Bengals team those Patriots beat the Bengals were out of the playoffs and like I said with the Cards, tey were 9-7. Anyway you slice it, at THAT time, they were a 9-7 squad. Not too many 10+ win teams on your list there, and I bet while looking at the scores a lot of those 10+ win teams you saw on the schedule those years were probably losses.

 

[51Hits]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

So you are looking at the 2008 and 2009 games versus two teams that typically average 30 points per game, for a total of a three game sample pool, and using that as an argument?. Pats have done a good job versus Indy (especially in '08) when their defense is actually running. The problem is they get gassed by the third quarter and collapse. What coach can help in that situation?/

Belichick can't work miracles. If he doesn't have the talent, there obviously won't be many shutouts. That's not to say there's more than a handful of other coaches who can gameplan a defense on his level.

Again, your letting stats tell your argument.

The Patriots absolutely dominated with TOP in that game because they got the running game to work well for them. Problem was, out of the 30 minutes the defense was on the field that night, every time except one or 2 series they gave up TDs, and the game winner. That's a good offensive gameplan saving the Colts from murdering that D more than anything.

If BB dosen't have talent? Well who the hells fault is that?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

FYI, I posted this exact same idea for the 2006 playoffs.

That said, I know for a fact that Byrne lurks in these boards, he even has an account over on PatriotsPlanet. I agree with you that they plagiarized the idea and whether they stole it from me or you it is immaterial.

Wow. Just wow. That's amazing. I can't believe that they are taking credit for this. What a bunch of unethical losers. Their articles are pathetic now. This Belichick one is a perfect example of how lazy and shallow they've become.

Great minds think alike, Oswlek =).

 

[NYJetsfan]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

For those of you smarter Patriots fans who didn't join the "season is over" after one loss train, I have to say I'm smiling. After our week one loss I had to deal with "Fire Shotty", "Bench Sanchez" and "Start Clemens" threads. Seems like you get the same garbage over here. Okay, so you're not that Patriots team that led you to three SB's, but you're not as bad as I've been reading on here. It was just a bad game in a stadium where the fans were VERY VERY loud against a team that had so much more to prove. It just wasn't meant to be your day.

 

[51Hits]

Re: CHFF: Jets find Belichick defense the cure for what ails you

Schedule is a weak argument because all teams face reasonably similar schedules and over a 4 year period, there is very little difference
If your argument is the team that allowed the 2nd fewest points allowed more to the good teams than the bad, well, duh. Every team allows more to the good than the bad.
Please find me the team that allowed more points but somehow dominated good teams.
Its a cop out argument.
Remember the article is saying we have been a defensive laughingstock since 2005, when in fact we allowed the second fewest points. Feel free to point all the many numerous teams that were more effective allowing more points that our laughing stock team.
Oh and in 2006, you are wrong.
They allowed 17,27,17,21 in losses to Denver, Indy, Jets and Miami and beat the 13-3 Bears, 14-2 Chargers, 10-6 Jets twice.

I'm talking regular season, that was a miracle playoff run ended by a second half melt down, the first of many.

The Jets were far from elite. They beat 2 elite teams that year, and I think we can all agree the Chargers cost themselves that game more than the Pats won it. They literally had it won when their DB couldn't hang onto the game winning pick. But hey, the 06 squad wasn't a bad one. They were like a miracle run more than anything.

More than anything, the rapid decline has begun since 08 when the vetrans that held those mide decade teams together went bye bye. We haven't replaced them yet and the defense is getting worse.

We're obviously going to go back and forth all day