How Belichick lost his place in posterity

[TheRainMaker]

PPG is a product of schedule and opponents. Teams don't play the same opponents nor have the same schedule so what's the point of ranking them. It's a waste of time to look at those rankings and draw any conclusions about a defense from those numbers alone.

Pats gave up 14 points per game to teams below .500 and 27.5 points per game to teams .500 and above. That’s a major discrepancy there. In fact, this has been a major issue the last several years. The top defenses were constant against no matter who they played.

Posters saying the defense was “ballin’” when they were a middle of the pack defense are just trolling Bill supporters.

 

[Biffins]

Facts suck for you...

Good statistic. Thanks

 

[Wozzy]

Pats gave up 14 points per game to teams below .500 and 27.5 points per game to teams .500 and above. That’s a major discrepancy there. In fact, this has been a major issue the last several years. The top defenses were constant against no matter who they played.

Posters saying the defense was “ballin’” when they were a middle of the pack defense are just trolling Bill supporters.

Defenses give up fewer points to lesser offenses and more to better offenses… you think that’s revelatory?

In other news, better offenses score less points against better defenses than the worst defenses. Shocking.

Points per game or total team points isn’t a measure of defense alone, it’s a measure of team. It mostly measures defense, but to a lesser extent accounts for special teams and the offense’s ability to sustain drives and prevent turnovers.

If you want an accurate accounting of defense alone… look at points per drive, forced turnovers, 3rd/4th down percentage, redzone percentage and yards per drive.

The 2023 Patriots had a top five defense and dead last 32nd ranked offense, this isn’t debatable. And last season Mac turned the ball over like the ball was on fire and threw pick sixes like he was giving away free candy… especially against the best teams and defenses.

 

[sb1]

Defenses give up fewer points to lesser offenses and more to better offenses… you think that’s revelatory?

Sure. It shows that the defensive PPG “ranking” doesn’t mean a thing when other teams don’t have the same schedule.

In other news, better offenses score less points against better defenses than the worst defenses. Shocking.

Points per game or total team points isn’t a measure of defense alone, it’s a measure of team.

Sure so why try to illustrate a PPG graph when making a point that Brady always had the best teams around him. Best coach maybe. Best team no way.

It mostly measures defense, but to a lesser extent accounts for special teams and the offense’s ability to sustain drives and prevent turnovers.

If you want an accurate accounting of defense alone… look at points per drive, forced turnovers, 3rd/4th down percentage, goal line percentage and yards per drive.

Still say DVOA is better. Yards per drive doesn’t account for garbage time but DVOA accounts for it.

The 2023 Patriots had a top five defense

They were decent not great.

and dead last 32nd ranked offense, this isn’t debatable. And last season Mac turned the ball over like the ball was on fire and threw pick sixes like he was giving away free candy… especially against the best teams and defenses.

Jones is gone. So is the HC that contributed heavily to his demise in NE.

 

[Wozzy]

Sure. It shows that the defensive PPG “ranking” doesn’t mean a thing when other teams don’t have the same schedule.

The Patriots had one of the toughest schedules in the NFL last season. Dumb.

2023 NFL schedule: Chiefs, Patriots among teams with the toughest 17-game slates

Which teams have the toughest NFL schedules in 2023? Eric Edholm identifies the 10 squads staring down the most daunting slates in the upcoming season.

www.nfl.com

Sure so why try to illustrate a PPG graph when making a point that Brady always had the best teams around him. Best coach maybe. Best team no way.

Stats and history say your wrong.

Still say DVOA is better. Yards per drive doesn’t account for garbage time but DVOA accounts for it.

DVOA is subjective made up nonsense.

They were decent not great.

The Patriots D ranked #1 in rushing yards per carry and #3 in rushing yards per game… they were arguably the toughest run defense in the NFL.

Opposing QB’s had the 11th worst QB Rating against them and they gave up the 11th fewest passing yards per game.

They gave up the 5th fewest points and 3rd fewest yards per drive in the NFL.

All this ^ despite Judon, Gonzalez and Marcus Jones getting hurt and dragging the 32nd ranked offense around behind them like an anchor.

In short, “decent” is a bad take and stats say you’re wrong, just repeating yourself doesn’t change that.

Jones is gone. So is the HC that contributed heavily to his demise in NE.

Mac Jones sucked after week 13 in year one when he had a “genius” offensive coordinator, a great line and weapons. That’s who we saw for the next two years. Nobody ruined Mac, that’s just who he was.

It’s funny how Joe Burrow has had one of the worst lines in football his entire career, has sustained two serious injuries and somehow is not “ruined.” Mac just sucks.

 

[sb1]

The Patriots had one of the toughest schedules in the NFL last season. Dumb.

2023 NFL schedule: Chiefs, Patriots among teams with the toughest 17-game slates

Which teams have the toughest NFL schedules in 2023? Eric Edholm identifies the 10 squads staring down the most daunting slates in the upcoming season.

www.nfl.com

That article couldn't be any more meaningless for reasons that should be obvious.

They didn't have a tough schedule at all. I'd say it was an average difficulty schedule... maybe slightly easier than average.

Stats and history say your wrong.

Great so let's see some proof that Brady always had the best teams throughout his career compared to his peers. Defensive PPG is not proof.

DVOA is subjective made up nonsense.

^How to say you don't know what that is...without actually saying you don't know what that is....

The Patriots D ranked #1 in rushing yards per carry and #3 in rushing yards per game… they were arguably the toughest run defense in the NFL.

Doesn't mean anything to me. What great backs did they shut down? When did they get a key stop on the ground to turn a game around? They were gashed by Mostert and Hall. No this is not the toughest run defense in the NFL.

Opposing QB’s had the 11th worst QB Rating against them and they gave up the 11th fewest passing yards per game.

So they were decent...which is what I said.

They gave up the 5th fewest points and 3rd fewest yards per drive in the NFL.

All this ^ despite Judon, Gonzalez and Marcus Jones getting hurt and dragging the 32nd ranked offense around behind them like an anchor.

In short, “decent” is a bad take and stats say you’re wrong, just repeating yourself doesn’t change that.

Not at all. Even our friend DVOA puts them at #10. That's not a knock on the defense but it is a reminder that this is not a team with an incredible defense that is only a QB away from contention. No they are not on both counts. Not even close.

Also teams with great defenses don't get blasted 72-3 in a 2 game span. Nor give up 430+ yards of offense at home against teams like the Commanders.

Mac Jones sucked after week 13 in year one when he had a “genius” offensive coordinator, a great line and weapons.

Josh was a "genius" OC? Really?

"Weapons" like Agholor and Parker... lol

That’s who we saw for the next two years. Nobody ruined Mac, that’s just who he was.

His HC decided that two head coaching failures who knew nothing about offense should run his offense and develop his young QB. Nuff said. Clearly that isn't how you develop a young QB. Maybe without Brady to veto Bill's stupidity such as this... this is who Bill always was as a HC. It's not a flattering picture.

It’s funny how Joe Burrow has had one of the worst lines in football his entire career, has sustained two serious injuries and somehow is not “ruined.” Mac just sucks.

Now we're comparing Jones with one of the best in the league and the #1 overall pick the year before who has carried his team to a Super Bowl almost by himself. Ok then.

 

[Wozzy]

That article couldn't be any more meaningless for reasons that should be obvious.

They didn't have a tough schedule at all. I'd say it was an average difficulty schedule... maybe slightly easier than average.

Vegas also said they had one of the hardest schedules… but if I said the ocean was wet you’d disagree at this point.

Great so let's see some proof that Brady always had the best teams throughout his career compared to his peers. Defensive PPG is not proof.

It’s not just defensive ppg, all the stats that measure defense, line play, special teams walk lockstep with team points. You’re just a Brady cheerleader, so anything that suggests he had good teams around him you’ll disagree with even if it’s undeniable.

^How to say you don't know what that is...without actually saying you don't know what that is....

The funniest part about this ^ sentence above is you can’t explain to the rest of us what DVOA is so a 12 year old could understand it.

The best you’ll come up with is a cut and paste job from Football Outsiders, which even you won’t understand.

Doesn't mean anything to me. What great backs did they shut down? When did they get a key stop on the ground to turn a game around? They were gashed by Mostert and Hall. No this is not the toughest run defense in the NFL.

They played the Bills and Dolphins twice, they played the NFC East which meant the Eagles and Cowboys. They had one of the toughest schedules in football. I’m fighting every urge not to be insulting.

So they were decent...which is what I said.

Top five in points allowed… you realize there are 32 teams right?

Not at all. Even our friend DVOA puts them at #10. That's not a knock on the defense but it is a reminder that this is not a team with an incredible defense that is only a QB away from contention. No they are not on both counts. Not even close.

I bet if Brady was on this team you’d be on your knees with the mouth open.

Also teams with great defenses don't get blasted 72-3 in a 2 game span. Nor give up 430+ yards of offense at home against teams like the Commanders.

How many turnovers did our QB have, how many points were pick sixes, fumble scoop and scores? You don’t understand football, it’s painful to discuss it with you.

Josh was a "genius" OC? Really?

Laughable… suddenly he’s no good at offense either.

"Weapons" like Agholor and Parker... lol

Agholor and Jonnu left Mac and had one of the better seasons of their career. We had a bunch of better weapons you skipped over.

His HC decided that two head coaching failures who knew nothing about offense should run his offense and develop his young QB. Nuff said. Clearly that isn't how you develop a young QB. Maybe without Brady to veto Bill's stupidity such as this... this is who Bill always was as a HC. It's not a flattering picture.

Mac sucked on his own, he’s sucked after week 13 of his rookie year when teams accumulated tape on him.

Now we're comparing Jones with one of the best in the league and the #1 overall pick the year before who has carried his team to a Super Bowl almost by himself. Ok then.

Burrow hasn’t been ruined by one of the worst lines in football, in fact him and his weapons got the team on the doorstep of a Super Bowl victory. Justin Herbert’s teams have stunk, why isn’t he “ruined?”

Of course you don’t want me comparing Mac to actual good QB’s, because he sucks… like your takes.

 

[sb1]

Vegas also said they had one of the hardest schedules… but if I said the ocean was wet you’d disagree at this point.

Who's "Vegas"?

Patriots opponents on their schedule in 2023 went a combined 138-134 against teams not named the Patriots. That's not a hard schedule. Where their schedule was ranked in May doesn't matter it's how it actually played out.

NFL Strength of Schedule Rankings & Ratings

NFL Strength of Schedule Rankings & Ratings from TeamRankings.com, your source for pro football computer power rankings.

www.teamrankings.com

NE's schedule last season is ranked 18th hardest, slightly easier than average which is what I said.

It’s not just defensive ppg, all the stats that measure defense, line play, special teams walk lockstep with team points. You’re just a Brady cheerleader, so anything that suggests he had good teams around him you’ll disagree with even if it’s undeniable.

It's not hard to deny it so it can't possibly be undeniable.
PPG is a product of schedule and opponents and that's it. It can't be compared with other teams unless you think apples can be compared with oranges.

Yer gonna have to do better than that if you're trying to show Brady benefited from good teams more than his peers...

The funniest part about this ^ sentence above is you can’t explain to the rest of us what DVOA is so a 12 year old could understand it.

I already explained what it was. Boxscore reading is not serious football analysis.

The best you’ll come up with is a cut and paste job from Football Outsiders, which even you won’t understand.

Not necessary and it's not hard to understand. On 4th and 1 running back carries for 2 yards and gets a first down. That makes his yards per carry only 2 therefore he sucks right? That's what happens when you look at numbers out of context.

They played the Bills and Dolphins twice, they played the NFC East which meant the Eagles and Cowboys. They had one of the toughest schedules in football. I’m fighting every urge not to be insulting.

No they didn't as I showed above.

Top five in points allowed… you realize there are 32 teams right?

Against an average schedule that doesn't mean a whole lot. They have a decent defense that usually does well against lousy offenses. It's not anything more than that.

I bet if Brady was on this team you’d be on your knees with the mouth open.

How many turnovers did our QB have, how many points were pick sixes, fumble scoop and scores? You don’t understand football, it’s painful to discuss it with you.

Laughable… suddenly he’s no good at offense either.

Agholor and Jonnu left Mac and had one of the better seasons of their career. We had a bunch of better weapons you skipped over.

Like who? Oh wait "elite" Henry lolol right?

Mac sucked on his own, he’s sucked after week 13 of his rookie year when teams accumulated tape on him.

Maybe now that he has a better head coach than we've had the last few years he'll do better when he gets a chance.

Burrow hasn’t been ruined by one of the worst lines in football, in fact him and his weapons got the team on the doorstep of a Super Bowl victory. Justin Herbert’s teams have stunk, why isn’t he “ruined?”

They have? If his teams stunk I'd hate to see what your opinion is of the pile of steaming excrement our former GM left us on offense.

Of course you don’t want me comparing Mac to actual good QB’s, because he sucks… like your takes.

Says the guy who kept waving pom poms for Bailey Zappe over 1 game in Cleveland two seasons ago with zero league tape on him….and it wasn’t even that great

 

[Tunescribe]

 

[Pats1971]

Pats gave up 14 points per game to teams below .500 and 27.5 points per game to teams .500 and above. That’s a major discrepancy there. In fact, this has been a major issue the last several years. The top defenses were constant against no matter who they played.

Posters saying the defense was “ballin’” when they were a middle of the pack defense are just trolling Bill supporters.

A defense even being middle of the pack with that bad of an offense means they were the 85 bears. Its almost unheard of. You show me a team that cant move the ball and turns the ball over, I will show you most teams give up a lot of points.

 

[lancerman]

Good statistic. Thanks

People dunk on Stafford a lot for being unclutch or whatever, but I feel like if anyone really watched his Lions teams for a full season or two they'd realize how much they totally kneecapped him having any chance of success.

 

[Wozzy]

People dunk on Stafford a lot for being unclutch or whatever, but I feel like if anyone really watched his Lions teams for a full season or two they'd realize how much they totally kneecapped him having any chance of success.

He spent 12 years in Detroit and couldn't win a single playoff game.

In one season with the Rams he wins four playoffs games including a Super Bowl, on a roster that was there a year prior with Goff.

And some deep thinkers here will tell us "team" is less important than QB magic or a clutch gene... it's a laughably bad take.

 

[Wozzy]

A defense even being middle of the pack with that bad of an offense means they were the 85 bears. Its almost unheard of. You show me a team that cant move the ball and turns the ball over, I will show you most teams give up a lot of points.

PFR provides stats like Points Per Drive that isolates offense and defense to give a much better measurement of individual units.

It doesn't make total points or points per game worthless, it just helps break down why these teams were good or bad in more detail.

 

[sb1]

A defense even being middle of the pack with that bad of an offense means they were the 85 bears. Its almost unheard of. You show me a team that cant move the ball and turns the ball over, I will show you most teams give up a lot of points.

I love the take that a team out scored 72-3 in a two game stretch last season has a tough defense. Lol.

 

[Triumph]

Thunder performing some damage control.

Trolling.

 

[Wozzy]

I love the take that a team out scored 72-3 in a two game stretch last season has a tough defense. Lol.

You mean the same two game stretch where our offense scored 3 points... no, that's not a typo... 3 points in two games.

But that wasn't all, also where our QB turned the ball over three times in game one, and three times in game two... six turnovers total against Dallas's #2 and New Orlean's 11th ranked scoring offenses.

14 of those points came off pick sixes, another 7 came off a Mac Jones fumble/scoop and score... 21 points came directly from Mac turnovers. Then he turned it over three more times for good measure.

Tell me you don't understand football without actually telling me you don't understand football.

 

[sb1]

You mean the same two game stretch where our offense scored 3 points... no, that's not a typo... 3 points in two games.

But that wasn't all, also where our QB turned the ball over three times in game one and three times in game two... six turnovers total.

Tell me you don't understand football, without telling me you don't understand football.

Ok so if the turnovers don’t happen they get outscored 62-3? That’s much better then I guess.

 

[Wozzy]

Ok so if the turnovers don’t happen they get outscored 62-3? That’s much better then I guess.

At least two of Mac's other turnovers came in or near the opponent's red zone... learn the game.

 

[sb1]

That looks like an appropriate gif for your take that a team outscored 72-3 in 2 games has a tough defense.

Wasn’t Bb supposed to be a defensive genius?

 

[Wozzy]

That looks like an appropriate gif for your take that a team outscored 72-3 in 2 games has a tough defense.

Wasn’t Bb supposed to be a defensive genius?

This is why you're a biased fraud.

You get schooled by facts, and all you do is repeat what was just proven outright wrong.