What is Logan's principle???

[BTTA]

Everyone, including Mankins, is entering this topic with an emotional need and filtering in the information that serves that need, and filtering out what doesn't.

None of us know Bo about this (unless the agent really is in camo here). It does feel like a political conversation in that there seems to be an inverse relationship between how much a poster is trying to attend to the facts and how worked up s/he is getting about this.

 

[Deus Irae]

I've been trying to avoid the threads about this for the last week or so but that only goes so far. There's a new thread on it everyday that keeps getting bounced to the top as well as non-stop discussion on the sports networks. The season can't start soon enough.

Mods have a tough job. A lot of these threads should have been merged. Had that happened, though, people would have been complaining that their vitally important take was given short shrift. The result is that we end up repeating the same things in thread after thread.

We know about 3 actual facts in this situation. People "Know" about 300 facts, and they're sure that every one of those is 100% accurate. That's the problem.

 

[Off The Grid]

Everyone, including Mankins, is entering this topic with an emotional need and filtering in the information that serves that need, and filtering out what doesn't.

None of us know Bo about this (unless the agent really is in camo here).

• It does feel like a political conversation in that there seems to be an inverse relationship between how much a poster is trying to attend to the facts and how worked up s/he is getting about this.

NICE!!

 

[Off The Grid]

THIS!!!

I think we need to start another thread or two to discuss all the nuances.

Ahhhh...SWEET sarcasm. :rocker:

 

[Off The Grid]

• i don't really care about logan's principle actually.
• i just want to know his principal.
  
• was he a nice guy or was he a ****?
  
• was he even a he at all?
  
• maybe he was a she?
  
• did mankins like the movie logan's run?
  
• let's start a thread about it.
  
• was logan airport named after mankins, or is it the other way around?
  
• perhaps we should have a thread about that as well.
  
• has logan broken wind today?
  
• a thread should provide some answers.

Beautifull.

 

[Kontradiction]

Mods have a tough job. A lot of these threads should have been merged. Had that happened, though, people would have been complaining that their vitally important take was given short shrift. The result is that we end up repeating the same things in thread after thread.

We know about 3 actual facts in this situation. People "Know" about 300 facts, and they're sure that every one of those is 100% accurate. That's the problem.

Exactly. That's why thread after thread discussing the same exact crap is getting a little tiresome. As I said before, the season can't come soon enough.

 

[The Brandon Five]

you make no sense. what do you think happens to the pass rush when a team is up 24-0 after 1 quarter. Its not going to be something the LG is going to stop.

learn the game

I thought the line was putting on a less than stellar performance before that, but fine, we'll say that Mankins played at an all-Pro level during that game.

EDIT: P.S. Terrell Suggs strip sack of Brady when they were down 7-0 says "Hi"

 

[Ring 6]

What does "he wouldn't have agreed to what he did" mean? What did they coax him into doing?

Agree to putting it off for a year.
Obviously he expected something different to happen in a year. I'm not saying he was coaxed into anything.
They agreed to put it off. When next year came Mankins found out the offer wasn't what he expected it would be when he agreed to wait.

 

[BSR]

Agree to putting it off for a year.
Obviously he expected something different to happen in a year. I'm not saying he was coaxed into anything.
They agreed to put it off. When next year came Mankins found out the offer wasn't what he expected it would be when he agreed to wait.

There was nothing for him to "agree to". He had no choice but to wait if the Patriots didn't want to begin negotiations, just as if the Patriots would have no choice if the opposite had been the case.

 

[Miguel]

Possible Principle points
1.) Logan may have been told early in 2009 that he had to wait until 2010 to get a deal. Then he saw the Patriots extend Levoir, Kaczur, Connolly, Ninkovich, and Aiken in 2009.
2.) Logan may have been told in 2009 that it was difficult to do extensions because of the CBA uncertainty just to see every team including the Patriots sign players to big-money deals.
3.) Logan may consider getting a split bonus contract as not taking care of him, especially since Wilfork got all of his bonus money ($18 million) in one fell swoop.
4.) Logan may have been told that the Patriots consider him as one of the top guards in the NFL and that they would pay him accordingly. Their offer could have been in line with a Top 10 ranking but not a Top 5 ranking.
5.) Logan may not have been happy that his rookie contract included a playing time escalator, he started every game from 2005 through 2008 and his escalator increased his salary by $700,000 when Kaczur's 2009 salary was increased by $1.725 million through escalator. Mankins could have been told that this discrepancy would be taken care of in his next contract.

 

[Deus Irae]

There was nothing for him to "agree to". He had no choice but to wait if the Patriots didn't want to begin negotiations, just as if the Patriots would have no choice if the opposite had been the case.

Mankins did have a choice. He could have held out in 2009.

 

[sbpatfan]

The difference between Evans and Mankins? Evans didn't get his ass handed to him in the Superbowl.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Possible Principle points
1.) Logan may have been told early in 2009 that he had to wait until 2010 to get a deal. Then he saw the Patriots extend Levoir, Kaczur, Connolly, Ninkovich, and Aiken in 2009.
2.) Logan may have been told in 2009 that it was difficult to do extensions because of the CBA uncertainty just to see every team including the Patriots sign players to big-money deals.
3.) Logan may consider getting a split bonus contract as not taking care of him, especially since Wilfork got all of his bonus money ($18 million) in one fell swoop.
4.) Logan may have been told that the Patriots consider him as one of the top guards in the NFL and that they would pay him accordingly. Their offer could have been in line with a Top 10 ranking but not a Top 5 ranking.
5.) Logan may not have been happy that his rookie contract included a playing time escalator, he started every game from 2005 through 2008 and his escalator increased his salary by $700,000 when Kaczur's 2009 salary was increased by $1.725 million through escalator. Mankins could have been told that this discrepancy would be taken care of in his next contract.

'

1) The Patriots may have factored in Logan's willingness to sign for the kind of money they showered on Levoir et al...
2) Remind me who we signed to a big money deal in 2009...
3) Who said Logan is getting a split bonus contract and not all of his bonus money up front, like Wilfork. And if it's been good enough for bigger fish here than him until now...
4) Their deal could still be in line with a top 5 guard ranking depending on how you look at it. I think fully guaranteed money and substantial signing bonus would trump any of the rolling deals...
5) Maybe Logan should have hired a better agent or found a way to get drafted in the 4th round, then...

 

[BSR]

Mankins did have a choice. He could have held out in 2009.

This is correct. He could have and I wouldn't have blamed him for doing so but then again he's a man of principle. Would a man of principle go back on his word?

So which is it? Is he a man of principle with no choice. Or no principle with a choice?

 

[Miguel]

2) Remind me who we signed to a big money deal in 2009...

Did I say that we signed anyone to a big money deal in 2009? I was referring to the Wilfork deal.

 

[Miguel]

3) Who said Logan is getting a split bonus contract and not all of his bonus money up front, like Wilfork. And if it's been good enough for bigger fish here than him until now...

I guess the meaning of the word possible escaped you.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The OP is saying mankins should not be upset at 35million over 5 yrs. The patriots can put whatever value they want on a position, the player should also be able to put whatever value he wants on himself. An all-pro OL who played out his rookie contract is worth Evans/Mangold type contract.

That is the principle mankins is standing on.

Understood. And the Pats' principal (right or wrong) is that for whatever method of measurement (market, LM's value to team, positional value to team), LM is not worth the dollars that he is seeking.

Thanks for simplifying and bringing it back to the OP's point.

I agree, it's clear that Mankins principle is that he wants to be paid not just for his present and future, but for his past as well.

The Patriots principle is to offer only what they feel he's worth for the present and future.

So Mankins out-performed his rookie contract and was essentially under paid. Congratulations Logan - join the club!

But there's a bigger club of guys who under-performed and they tend not to give back their money.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Did I say that we signed anyone to a big money deal in 2009? I was referring to the Wilfork deal.

We offered him $5M less than Wilfork in new money over a 5 year term...He was getting offered a big deal, just not as big as he apparently anticipated. If he ever thought he was getting more than Wilfork, he was delusional. Just like Wilfork wasn't going to get more than Moss or Seymour or Brady had gotten. Internal salary structure. Had he signed the deal I believe he would now be the 4th highest paid player on the team by total contract and contract average...behind Brady, Moss and Wilfork. Maybe he thought they said top three on the team...

 

[Deus Irae]

This is correct. He could have and I wouldn't have blamed him for doing so but then again he's a man of principle. Would a man of principle go back on his word?

So which is it? Is he a man of principle with no choice. Or no principle with a choice?

Neither. You keep offering false arguments and choices.

 

[RayClay]

I found how much (I mean what) his principle$$ are.

He believes they promised to make him better compensated than Saints guard Jahri Evans, who recently signed a seven-year, $56.7 million deal ($8.1 million average). Mankins’ camp said the Pats offered a deal worth only $6.5 million per season (seven years, $45.5 million).

Friends: Don’t count on Logan Mankins - BostonHerald.com