Offense needs to stop playing fantasy football every week

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

I agree, but the point is that this team can win in other ways. Insisting that we are failing due to lack of a quality 3rd or 4th receiver is SILLY. These posters are stuck in the myopic view that you can only win through the spread offense.

A couple posts ago, you said:

The O-line does a good job run blocking, have you seen the ypc numbers? The two tight ends can both run block and catch the ball.

I disagree, saying that Maroney gets too many of his yards in spite of the blocking, and you agree with that too? Which is it?

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Offensive Fantasy Studs

You said the O-line does as good a job for Maroney, as it does hinder him. That doesn't contradict the belief that the O-line does a good job in general run blocking, not just for Maroney.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Offensive Fantasy Studs

You said the O-line does as good a job for Maroney, as it does hinder him. That doesn't contradict the belief that the O-line does a good job in general run blocking, not just for Maroney.

maverick, you've lost yourself in contradiction more than once in this thread. Make up your mind and stick to your point. That way your argument, no matter how flimsy may be defendable.

 

[maverick4]

The team ypc is 4, which is a good figure. For comparison, we only averaged 3.4 ypc in the 2003 season.

Pointing out that the team avg ypc is 4.0, doesn't somehow prove that this team isn't good at run blocking.

 

[ausbacker]

The team ypc is 4, which is a good figure. For comparison, we only averaged 3.4 ypc in the 2003 season.

Pointing out that the team avg ypc is 4.0, doesn't somehow prove that this team isn't good at run blocking.

I'm speechless.

 

[Satchboogie3]

The team ypc is 4, which is a good figure. For comparison, we only averaged 3.4 ypc in the 2003 season.

Pointing out that the team avg ypc is 4.0, doesn't somehow prove that this team isn't good at run blocking.

22nd in the league is below average, not average. We aren't a good run-blocking team. Period. It's a simple as that.

Anyways, what if I suggested this team get a running back like Chris Johnson? That would make our offense absolutely ridiculous... but I'm sure you wouldn't want him because he would put up "Fantasy Football Numbers" every week... That's bad, right?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Offensive Fantasy Studs

You said the O-line does as good a job for Maroney, as it does hinder him. That doesn't contradict the belief that the O-line does a good job in general run blocking, not just for Maroney.

My exact words were:

"Honestly, I think that Maroney in particular gets a lot of his yards in spite of the run-blocking as much as because of it. It's why I've always liked him as a player, even when his stats were lacking. His blocking rarely does him any favors. Last night it did, for one drive anyways, but that was more the exception than the norm."

If you consider that an endorsement of the run blocking, then clearly reading comprehension isn't your thing.

 

[BradyFTW!]

the team ypc is 4, which is a good figure. For comparison, we only averaged 3.4 ypc in the 2003 season.

Pointing out that the team avg ypc is 4.0, doesn't somehow prove that this team isn't good at run blocking.

Quick being such a stat whore!

 

[maverick4]

Anyways, what if I suggested this team get a running back like Chris Johnson? That would make our offense absolutely ridiculous... but I'm sure you wouldn't want him because he would put up "Fantasy Football Numbers" every week... That's bad, right?

Where did you get this idea? Do you know how to read?

I am all for getting as much elite talent as you can on the team. It's how they're used that is the problem. Right now we play to win doing one thing, and if that one thing is stopped, we can't manufacture a win. It's a problem.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Offensive Fantasy Studs

"Honestly, I think that Maroney in particular gets a lot of his yards in spite of the run-blocking as much as because of it. It's why I've always liked him as a player, even when his stats were lacking. His blocking rarely does him any favors. Last night it did, for one drive anyways, but that was more the exception than the norm."

Maroney has been getting TD's for the last 6 weeks behind what is clearly good run blocking for him especially in the red zone. The run blocking in general has been good all season, the running game was doing well earlier when Fred Taylor or Sammy Morris were in there. Maroney is starting to really pick up his game, but he was constantly running into his own blockers especially earlier in the season. That isn't the O-line's fault if Maroney keeps running into his own people. There was one notable instance where Logan Mankins was livid that instead of running through a gaping hole, Maroney ran into his own blocker.

 

[maverick4]

Here's a good post by Rhody in another thread. It shows how this team cannot manufacture a win when it's predictable play calls, and insistence on winning by getting certain guys their numbers, get stopped:

Championship caliber teams win on the road. This is what Tom Brady and his "high powered" offensive toys have done in the 2nd half on the road this year.

0 pts against the Jets
0 pts against the Broncos
10 pts against rhe Colts
7 pts against the Saints
Even against the lowly Bucs in that faux road game in London this "high powered" O scored a whopping 14 pts in the 2nd half.

They not only are not scoring in the 2nd half of games to put those games away but they're not managing the clock to help out the D and theyre turning the ball over.
Only the kool-aid drinkers among us won't admit there are glaring problems with this offense, the strength of this team, which has literally cost them victories this year.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

I agree that the playcalling has a lot to do with our pass protection woes. I would blame it more on line talent nonetheless, but Bill O'Brien's genius gameplans certainly haven't helped.

BradyFTW - Bill O'Brien is just one part of the cabal that develops the game plan. You also have Brady, Belichick, Fears, Scar, Waldron, and O'Shea. So, if there is an issue with it, it rests on all 7 of those people.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Offensive Fantasy Studs

Maverick, your argument isn't coherent.

I think that is pretty much the case with every "argument" that Mav4 starts..

What Maverick has continuously ignored is that this is Bill Belichick's offense. One that he developed. Just like it was under McDaniels and Weis. Weis, McDaniels, and now O'B rien are the "colonels" who implement the offense. The players are the grunts who are supposed to execute it.

I used to say that Weis was a great strategist, but lousy tactician. McDaniels was a better tactician than Weis, but not nearly the strategist. Considering that this is O'Brien's first year, we don't know how good of a strategist or tactician he is. What we do know is that the offense needs to run the ball more. With Morris and Maroney both healthy, they should be able to do that more.

What I do know is that it seems amazing that Mav4 doesn't understand that when he takes shots at this offense and the plays it runs, he is taking a shot at Belichick. He'll sit there and deny it until he's blue in the face, but that is only because he doesn't understand that 1+1 = 2.

 

[dakevdude]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

I'm a little lost here...is the OP argument...having the Pats ranked 2nd or 3rd in offense going into the Saints game is a bad thing? LOL

Mmmm....like someone said before...the reason the Patriots lost to Saints last week was because the young and inexperienced secondary was dazed and confused with Drew Brees scoring at will...similar to what happened in the Colts game with Manning in the fourth quarter.

I might not be the smartest person in the world but I do know those several blown coverages and long touchdowns weren't on the offense.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Offensive Fantasy Studs

this is Bill Belichick's offense. One that he developed. Just like it was under McDaniels and Weis. Weis, McDaniels, and now O'B rien are the "colonels" who implement the offense. The players are the grunts who are supposed to execute it.

I used to say that Weis was a great strategist, but lousy tactician. McDaniels was a better tactician than Weis, but not nearly the strategist. Considering that this is O'Brien's first year, we don't know how good of a strategist or tactician he is.

What I do know is that it seems amazing that Mav4 doesn't understand that when he takes shots at this offense and the plays it runs, he is taking a shot at Belichick.

So many dumb arguments made here.

1. In the first paragraph you claim it is ALL Belichick's decision, yet in the second paragraph you imply that Weiss, McKid, and O'Brien all had influence on the offense based on their own styles and skill. You can't have it both ways.

2. In multiple books on Belichick and interviews with the man, he acknowledges that from coaching in Cleveland, he learned he can't do it all and gives great autonomy to his coordinators, delegates and trusts them. The bad and good performances on offense and defense, get credit or blame to the coordinators. It's not all on Belichick all the time. He's a genius but not a superman who does it all, all the time.

3. In no way are criticisms of play calling or choke jobs on offense or defense, direct jabs at Belichick. That is like saying that Bob Kraft suddenly became a crappy owner when Pete Carroll was coach.

Yet more incoherent and laughably bad excuse-making from the stat whores.

 

[rabthepat]

Pats will win more when they have better talent and coaching.

It's really that simple.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats will win more when they have better talent and coaching.

It's really that simple.

Obviously it's a combo of talent and coaching. In the NFL with the cap, the top 6 contenders are all pretty much equal in overall talent. It comes down to coaching a lot more in the NFL than say the MLB or NBA, where the best talent almost always wins. Every single play starts and stops, resets 100+ times, it's a chess match with a ton of different players used.

The coaching staff under Belichick is not contender-level.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Where did you get this idea? Do you know how to read?

I am all for getting as much elite talent as you can on the team. It's how they're used that is the problem. Right now we play to win doing one thing, and if that one thing is stopped, we can't manufacture a win. It's a problem.

Maverick, the thing I've been trying to tell you (and you've been failing to realize) is that ITS NOT TRUE! Lets go take a look at the FACTS:

2007:
Week 5 against the Browns, Moss was well covered (3 catches for 46 yards, 0 TD). So what did the team do? They went to OTHER guys. Watson had a big game (6 Rec, 107 Yards, 2 TDs), Morris ran for 100 yards, and Stallworth had 65 yards and 1 TD.

Week 6 against the Cowboys, Moss had an average game (6 Rec, 59 Yards, 1 TD). Who stepped up? Stallworth (7 Rec, 136 Yards, 1 TD) and Welker (11 Rec, 124 Yards, 2 TD).

Week 8 against the Skins, Moss had 3 Rec for 47 Yards and 1 TD. Who did they go to instead? Everyone. Maroney had 14 carries for 75 yards and 2 receptions for 37 yards. Faulk had 5 carries for 32 Yards and 7 receptions for 57 yards. Welker had 9 rec for 89 yards, Stallworth had 4 receptions, and Gaffney had 4 receptions. Brady spread the wealth.

Week 12 against the Eagles, Moss had 5 Rec for 43 Yards and 0 TD. Who stepped up? Welker (13 rec, 139 Yards), Gaffney (6 Rec, 87 Yards), Stallworth (4 Rec, 54 Yards).

Week 13 against Balt, Moss had 4 Rec for 34 yards and 1 TD. The offense had some trouble, but it was a complete team effort. Brady spread the ball out between 8 receivers (Maroney and Stallworth getting the most yardage).

Week 14 against the Jets, Moss had a decent day, but it was Maroney who lead the offense (104 rushing yards, 1 TD).

Week 15 against Miami: This is the game a lot of people started to complain because Brady was forcing the ball to Moss to try and break the TD record for him. What they fail to realize is that Brady did this after we had the game in the bag (up 28-0) and he didn't completely ignore the rest of the team. Maroney had a huge game (156 yards rushing, 1 TD), Gaffney had a good game (5 Rec, 82 yards, 1 TD), and Faulk, Welker, and Stallworth were all part of the passing game.

Playoffs:
Jags game: Moss was well covered (1 Rec, 14 yards, 0 TD), so Brady DESTROYED the team underneath. Stallworth had 3 Rec for 68 yards, Welker had 9 Rec for 54 yards, Gaffney and Faulk were also involved in the passing game. On the ground, Maroney ran for 122 yards and 1 TD

Chargers Game: Moss was again held in check (1 Rec, 18 yards, 0 TD). Maroney ran for 122 yards and 1 TD, Faulk had 8 Rec and Welker had 7.


Fastforward to 2009:
Bills game, Brady's first game back, Moss and Welker have big games.

Jets game: Belichick over-thinks the offense, they were completely out of sync, the O-line couldn't handle the pass-rush and Brady couldn't handle the pressure (still very rusty). On top of that, Revis had great coverage on Moss, something I doubt Brady or Belichick expected.

Atlanta game: Moss and the offense has a good game, Brady looks better but is still missing some throws.

Baltimore game: Brady spread the ball around between 9 guys (Morris, Watson, Moss, and Welker getting the most receptions).

Broncos game: Brady and Morris were doing well in the first half, but the offense stalls in the second half, mainly attributed to a lack of adjustments, execution, play calling, and not running the ball enough.

NO's game: Brady and the O-line didn't show up to play. This game had nothing to do with forcing the ball to Moss, Brady simply didn't have it, nor did he have any time.

So to wrap this up, when Moss has been well covered, the offense goes to it's other weapons (running game, other receivers, etc). When the offense struggles, it's because either A. Brady has a bad game or B. The O-line fails and doesn't give him any time. This season, we saw a rusty Brady and an out of sync offense, which was to be expected. None of our problems have ever been attribute to focusing on Moss. NONE.

 

[maverick4]

Satch thanks for looking it up and trying to make a genuine sincere argument. But, you didn't really give any good reason to dispel that our 2nd half choke jobs in 4 games now, aren't due to play calls and the coordinator. In fact you even write that we lost a game because of play calling and no adjustments.

The Saints were missing 3 starters in the secondary, their defense in general is below average, and yet we couldn't manufacture a win or drives because we stubbornly tried to keep forcing a win with the spread shotgun offense. Our offense was so predictable that we couldn't even beat a crappy secondary, and a team that was getting gouged in the run game. The pass protection protection problems are directly linked to the opposing defense not having to worry about defending the run most of the time we pass.

Even in your write-up, you acknowledge that we lose when we can't succeed with Moss or Welker. That is the whole point. This team can't win when Welker (or Moss) is stopped. It's just like the 01 Rams when the Pats figured out how to stop Faulk, they choked because they didn't adjust or know how to manufacture a win without forcing the ball a certain way.

Fastforward to 2009:
Bills game, Brady's first game back, Moss and Welker have big games.

Jets game: Belichick over-thinks the offense, they were completely out of sync, the O-line couldn't handle the pass-rush and Brady couldn't handle the pressure (still very rusty). On top of that, Revis had great coverage on Moss, something I doubt Brady or Belichick expected.

Broncos game: Brady and Morris were doing well in the first half, but the offense stalls in the second half, mainly attributed to a lack of adjustments, execution, play calling, and not running the ball enough.

NO's game: Brady and the O-line didn't show up to play. This game had nothing to do with forcing the ball to Moss, Brady simply didn't have it, nor did he have any time.
This season, we saw a rusty Brady and an out of sync offense, which was to be expected. None of our problems have ever been attribute to focusing on Moss. NONE.

 

[jmt57]

I realize this is an over-simplification, but if you can only point your finger at one thing to blame for a loss - either an offense for scoring 17 points, or a defense for allowing 38 points - then you have blame the defense and not the offense.

Teams can and do win scoring just 17 points. On the other hand it is extremely rare to win when you allow 38 points.