Offense needs to stop playing fantasy football every week

[ausbacker]

How do you win a shootout by just running the ball? Maroney's longest run this year is what, 22 yards? There was no way we would be able to put up enough points quickly by running the ball.

As for the passrush, yes, 5 guys should be able to block up to 5 pass-rushing linebackers. When is the last time you saw an O-line get so badly abused by so few pass-rushers?

Finally, as the other poster pointed out, our sacks allowed total is DECEPTIVE. Brady only got sacked once last night, but would you claim they did a good job? No. Brady was running around like a wild man trying to avoid getting sacked. There are QBs that are extremely good at avoiding pressure and have a quick release or throw the ball away (Brady, Manning, Brees, etc) and there are those who aren't (Big Ben). You don't rate an O-line based on sacks, you rate them based on their blocking ability.

maverick has a hard time grasping the concept that if you rush 3 players and the o-line can't block them, not only does that leave 8 players in coverage, but it collapses the pocket and forces the quarterback to throw faster than the play is designed. Never mind attempting the same sort of configuration in a designed run play if 3 d-lineman can get the job done.

Just stand around, beat your chest, accuse everyone of not having a genuine argument despite your own being full of contradictions and make your own inferences despite no reasonable correlation whatsoever.

Sound like a familiar poster's guide satchboogie?

 

[maverick4]

Damien Woody was a pro bowler Guard in 2002. Tom Ashworth was a very good RT. Now they have been replaced with a guy who is a candidate to be cut in Nick Kaczur and now a older Matt Light. This is why they shut Peppers and company down.

So this is like comparing apples to oranges.

The Saints played a great game, it happens.

1. You won't find many people, even in New England, who will agree with your premise that somehow the 2003 O-line talent was better than it is now.

2. The Saints did play a great game, but it doesn't "just happen". The fact you keep claiming nothing else could have been done differently to win, and you're baffled why our explosive offense became impotent against a Saints secondary missing 3 starters and a weak D-line, shows just how much you don't understand the impact of scheme and play calling on the outcome of a game.

 

[maverick4]

if you rush 3 players and the o-line can't block them, not only does that leave 8 players in coverage, but it collapses the pocket and forces the quarterback to throw faster than the play is designed

Why is it so hard for you to understand that the crappy Saints D-line didn't overpower the Pats O-line due to superior talent?

You guys still have zero answers as to why this happens. You just shrug your shoulders and chalk it up to an inevitable loss no matter what.

This argument you make, is just as ******ed as ausbacker repeatedly claiming that the offensive impotence is due to the lack of talent at the 4th receiver.

The overall talent of this team is as good as any team in the league under the cap. Our failures are not mainly talent issues.

 

[ausbacker]

Why is it so hard for you to understand that the crappy Saints D-line didn't overpower the Pats O-line due to superior talent?

You guys still have zero answers as to why this happens. You just shrug your shoulders and chalk it up to an inevitable loss no matter what.

This argument you make, is just as ******ed as ausbacker repeatedly claiming that the offensive impotence is due to the lack of talent at the 4th receiver.

The overall talent of this team is as good as any team in the league under the cap. Our failures are not mainly talent issues.

No, you have your head in the sand and can't prove a single thing you say. The Saints executed their plays better than the Patriots. Apparently the execution of a play call is problematic for you to grasp.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'll probably be bashed for saying this, but Brady sometimes had RIDICULOUS running holes. Its a way to stop the eight man coverage.

Brady could run his 5.4 40 yard dash, duck his head, and could've gotten first downs alot.

 

[maverick4]

No, you have your head in the sand and can't prove a single thing you say. The Saints executed their plays better than the Patriots. Apparently the execution of a play call is problematic for you to grasp.

Always blaming it on execution and lack of talent, is the hallmark of a fan who has zero clue, especially when it comes to the capped NFL which is just as much if not more about coaching/scheme than it is talent.

Keep repeating that the Pats fail because they need a better 4th receiver. You are a joke.

 

[SVN]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

Nope, sorry, you really have a problem of pulling things out of your a*s and making things up.

This has nothing to do with Belichick. Belichick can't manage all facets of the team, it's impossible. If you read ANY books on the man you'd know that he learned to delegate and trust his coordinators from his experience coaching in Cleveland. He has never fired a coordinator and believes in developing them, even when they screw up.

It's obtuse (but not surprising) thinking from you to automatically attribute any criticism of the team as an attack on Bill Belichick or his decision-making.

so whose fault it now ? BB for not firing the coords ? BB for not coaching the coords properly. ? the coords themselves of doing something stupid without listening to BB's ideas or BB himself who is letting the coords do what they want for 10 plus games even if it isnt working ?
If the oc is bad and not doing his job why is BB tolerating it ? And if that is BB's history and nature then nothing can be done because the OC is doing with BB's blessing ..not inspite of BB

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

so whose fault it now ? BB for not firing the coords ? BB for not coaching the coords properly. ? the coords themselves of doing something stupid without listening to BB's ideas or BB himself who is letting the coords do what they want for 10 plus games even if it isnt working ?
If the oc is bad and not doing his job why is BB tolerating it ? And if that is BB's history and nature then nothing can be done because the OC is doing with BB's blessing ..not inspite of BB

Wow, you are obsessed with Belichick, could you mention him even more?

The criticisms of the play calling are not on Belichick. The 1st half stats show that Belichick's input works, but the 2nd half stats show that his coordinators can't do the job. The longer the game goes on, the pre-game planning that Belichick was involved in affects less of the game, and becomes more influenced by the coordiantor. Belichick tolerates his coordiantors because he isn't allowed to hire coordinators that make a certain amount of money, and because he is willing (or has to) to let them make mistakes in order to become better.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

Wow, you are obsessed with Belichick, could you mention him even more?.

The criticisms of the play calling are not on Belichick. The 1st half stats show that Belichick's input works, but the 2nd half stats show that his coordinators can't do the job. .

BB does have input in playcalling before and during games. You are kidding yourself if you don't think that. Certainly, the more confidence he has in a coord, he'll lay off more (see RAC or Weis). I can bet you he is all over O'Brien and to a lesser extent Pees.

The longer the game goes on, the pre-game planning that Belichick was involved in affects less of the game, and becomes more influenced by the coordiantor. .

True to a point. See above.

Belichick tolerates his coordiantors because he isn't allowed to hire coordinators that make a certain amount of money, and because he is willing (or has to) to let them make mistakes in order to become better.

Untrue. I'm 100% sure if BB said to Kraft, "It'll cost $1.2m for Weis", Kraft would do it in a heartbeat. BB prefers hiring from within and bringing along coaches who know HIS system. Bringing in a hot-shot coordinator who would want to implement his own offense runs counter to the organization's philosophy in NE.

 

[The Intimidator]

Always blaming it on execution and lack of talent, is the hallmark of a fan who has zero clue, especially when it comes to the capped NFL which is just as much if not more about coaching/scheme than it is talent.

Keep repeating that the Pats fail because they need a better 4th receiver. You are a joke.

He isn't the joke here. Look at the talent that we have on the offensive side of the ball. We have a running back that has averaged 3.9 yards a carry and a 3r down back who is designed to take screen passes and come in on 3rd down. Our 3rd reciever to start the year was Joey Galloway, who was projected to take the place of Gaffney. Didn't work out. Yet with all of this, we are the 2nd in the league in overall offense buddy. Please, we have debated this countless times and you still think it is bad. Sure it is flawed on the O-line some and in at receiver pass Moss and Welker, but this isn't the Browns either. BB calls in the plays and really controls the offense, not O'Brien for the most part as well. You are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise.

I'm sorry but you are the joke right now.

 

[maverick4]

BB calls in the plays and really controls the offense, not O'Brien for the most part as well. You are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise.

Given WHAT evidence?

You keep assuming Belichick is some sort of master dictator, when this couldn't be farther from the truth. If you think Belichick gets all credit and all blame, then every coordinator who ever worked under him was just a robot following orders, which is ludicrous.

 

[chris66]

This was the first game wher i saw moss dog it if he didnt have single coverage. I agree that maybe we dont need elite wr. we need wr that work hard to get open.

 

[SVN]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

Wow, you are obsessed with Belichick, could you mention him even more?

The criticisms of the play calling are not on Belichick. The 1st half stats show that Belichick's input works, but the 2nd half stats show that his coordinators can't do the job. The longer the game goes on, the pre-game planning that Belichick was involved in affects less of the game, and becomes more influenced by the coordiantor. Belichick tolerates his coordiantors because he isn't allowed to hire coordinators that make a certain amount of money, and because he is willing (or has to) to let them make mistakes in order to become better.

iam not obsessed with belichick.you are obsessed with OC for the past 2 yrs.
Lets say all your points are somehow valid. What do you think is the solution if the coordinator keeps sucking it up all yr,next yr and yr after. BB just tolerates ? Are you saying the longer the game goes on BB involves himself less and less with the playcalling and does not ever ask BOB to do something or change something ? What kinda grooming is that then ?
Are you saying the 4th and 2 call @indy BB just said go for it and asked Brady and the OC to run what they want ?
Go back to the 2007 season the phl@NE game here with nfl films sounds of the game.BB @halftime comes over to brady and says "We are going to get out of the no huddle now" .So you are mistaken that BB just lets the OC's do what they want even if doesnt agree. its not micromanagement its about doing what is right.He will say it when it isnt .
Iam all in agreement with less shotgun and more running theories and all but just dont dump it all on the OC. He is being groomed by BB as you said and if he isnt changing anything week to week then either its how BB wants it or he is tolerating it so neither of it is going to change.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

Iam all in agreement with less shotgun and more running theories and all but just dont dump it all on the OC. He is being groomed by BB as you said and if he isnt changing anything week to week then either its how BB wants it or he is tolerating it so neither of it is going to change.

I think we can agree on this last part.

The most frustrating part is that I don't think Belichick is going to fire anybody. I think his hands are tied because he isn't allowed to pay coordinators more than a set amount, so he has to work with sub-par ones and coach up his own coaches.

 

[chris66]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

I think we can agree on this last part.

The most frustrating part is that I don't think Belichick is going to fire anybody. I think his hands are tied because he isn't allowed to pay coordinators more than a set amount, so he has to work with sub-par ones and coach up his own coaches.

If Kraft wants to keep fielding a winner he will have to open his wallet. top coordinators make between 2-3 mil/year. Sean Payton gave up some of his salary so they could hire Williams.

 

[maverick4]

Pherein made a post in another thread that does a great job explaining essentially the point of this thread title and first post.

Not to intrude but from a saints fan perspective. Brees is fortunate enough to be on a team that exacerbates his abilities. Look over some of the facts: a OL that is constantly overlooked in the probowl but has ranked 1-3# since 2006, a receiving core that is never marked at the top 5 because the ball is thrown to a different guy each play. Paytons “ you cant cover everyone” offense works, but no one is a hero, no one will ever get moss like numbers in this offence.
You put a guy to pass to them who doesnt have the best arm and cant play in weather, but is probably the most accurate passer in the NFL, and its a field day.

YouTube - DrewBrees Sport Science

You add a 3 headed running game, and teams have a problem. The point is the only way to beat the Saints is you have to stop the run, pass, and break the OL, its not one thing, and then you have to out think payton. Vikings dont have that. Brees is a really good guy who spends the time , and deserves this , hes not as strong but more accurate than manning.

YouTube - Drew Brees

He is not the best QB ever, he has a long road to come close to brady, montana,bradshaw. Brees is at the right place at the right time, he has picked apart 5 #5 defenses this year and the Saint offense has been #1 #1 #4 #1 since 2006, you guys were facing a seasoned offence even when the defense was #28, Brees is a damn good football player, the boy was born to play, but hes no Tom Brady yet and his success is with the offence of the Saints as a whole. Brees would not be doing these numbers with out our team and paytons build as a whole. Realize Bush and Moore didnt play, and Moore was our #1 receiver last year, this team is deep. This is Sean Paytons doing. Thanks guys

 

[dhamz]

1. When it was 24-17 very early in the 3rd quarter, we could have slowed the game down. The Saints could not stop our running game. Instead we blew it by not having patience. The game got out of hand shortly after.

This never happenned. The Patriots never had the ball trailing 24-17. In fact, the Saints were on the Patriots 6 yard line exactly 1 play after Maroney's TD made it 24-17.

 

[maverick4]

This never happenned. The Patriots never had the ball trailing 24-17. In fact, the Saints were on the Patriots 6 yard line exactly 1 play after Maroney's TD made it 24-17.

It was 31-17 with 10:30 to go in the 3rd quarter. Plenty of time, no need to completely abandon the run or eliminate all passing plays from under center. And yet, up until the Pats threw up the white flag, look at how almost every single play from that point on was a shotgun pass:
New England Patriots vs. New Orleans Saints - Play By Play - November 30, 2009 - ESPN

 

[eagle eye]

Given WHAT evidence?

If you think Belichick gets all credit and all blame, then every coordinator who ever worked under him was just a robot following orders, which is ludicrous.

Let me see Romeo, Charlie, the rat - they sure proved how gifted they were since they left.

Its too early to tell about Josh.

 

[maverick4]

Belichick failed in his first HC job too, so what? The fact that those guys didn't immediately succeed in their 1st head coaching job, in no way means that they didn't have influence/input and their own style on the Pats offense or defense that they coached. Those units were clearly just as much a credit/blame to them as it was to Belichick. They weren't mindless drones where all success and failure is directly Belichick. It they were, the league wouldn't keep hiring these guys.