Offense needs to stop playing fantasy football every week

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

Nobody is suggesting we don't need Brady, Moss, or Welker. The more elite talent we can get, all the better.

What I mean is, this team should be able to win when Brady throws under 25 times, or Moss/Welker get less than 5 catches.

Win the game pounding the ball some week, and where the passing guys aren't putting up crazy passing/receiving fantasy stats. Win the ball with the tight ends.

Stop trying to force success through the spread offense, and where you lose the game if you can't do it that way.

Trying to force a win doing it your way is Mike Martz'ish.

In case you haven't noticed, Stanback, Baker, Watson and Edelman aren't exactly a murderer's row of talent (and I actually like Watson).

No, the real problem is pass protection. I kept laughing last night when the announcers talked about how mysteriously every offensive player the Saints had had turned into an awesome, dynamic talent. My football IQ was lowered by having to hear them talk about this, while missing the painfully obvious point that great QB + time = virtually guaranteed success. The difference between the Saints and the Pats last night was that they protected our QB and we didn't protect ours.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

By fantasy stud, it means that you know week in and week out a guy will get his stats if the team/coordinator can help it.

I don't think that applies to the Vikings or Bengals; they aren't over-reliant on Favre or Palmer in order to win. Peyton Manning is the one exception to the rule, he's that good now.

Have you seen Peterson's numbers lately? How about Benson's (pre-injury)?

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

So if Moss and Welker have under 10 receptions combined, that leaves another 15 attempts at receivers 3, 4 and 5 as well as the running game. If you can't see that you're defeating your own argument about NOT needing better quality in receivers 3,4,5 .

Why are you stuck in the mindset that this team can only win by passing, and passing to receivers? It's the same flawed mindset O'Brien has right now, and also explains why this team can't win if its favorite plays are stopped.

 

[HarkDawg]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

there is no way in hell you let Welker go.......


I realize you can't keep 2 high paid receivers, but Welker brings so much to this team. He is still young too. If you want to be more defense orientated that is great..... but you cannot let someone like Wes walk on out the door.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

In case you haven't noticed, Stanback, Baker, Watson and Edelman aren't exactly a murderer's row of talent (and I actually like Watson).

No, the real problem is pass protection. The difference between the Saints and the Pats last night was that they protected our QB and we didn't protect ours.

1. Blaming the lack of a 3rd and 4th receiver is ridiculous. This team is good enough to win as it is, these are weak excuses.

2. The pass protection issue is because we use shot gun so much, not because the O-line talent is horrible. Look at how often the Saints put Brees under center. The DE's, LB's, corners, and safeties have to respect the run if you are under center. The pass rush and coverage dramatically improves if you don't even have to see what the backfield is doing.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

Why are you stuck in the mindset that this team can only win by passing, and passing to receivers? It's the same flawed mindset O'Brien has right now, and also explains why this team can't win if its favorite plays are stopped.

maverick..... you yourself said you wanted Brady to throw less than 25 times. I know exactly what I said. That leaves 15 throws to receivers 3,4,5 and the running game.

In a rapidly evolving passing league you want to return to running the football? That's perfectly fine with me if

1. You have a reliable run blocking line, &
2. You have great wide receiver depth to throw a limited amount of passes.

So which of these do the Patriots currently have?

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

I realize you can't keep 2 high paid receivers, but Welker brings so much to this team. He is still young too. If you want to be more defense orientated that is great..... but you cannot let someone like Wes walk on out the door.

Who said anything about letting great players go?

I am talking about not over-relying on them all the time. Welker is completely over-used right now in this offense. This team can't win right now if Welker is stopped, which is pretty ridiculous given the overall talent on this team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

1. Blaming the lack of a 3rd and 4th receiver is ridiculous. This team is good enough to win as it is, these are weak excuses.

2. The pass protection issue is because we use shot gun so much, not because the O-line talent is horrible. Look at how often the Saints put Brees under center. The DE's, LB's, corners, and safeties have to respect the run if you are under center. The pass rush and coverage dramatically improves if you don't even have to see what the backfield is doing.

I agree that the playcalling has a lot to do with our pass protection woes. I would blame it more on line talent nonetheless, but Bill O'Brien's genius gameplans certainly haven't helped.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

maverick..... you yourself said you wanted Brady to throw less than 25 times.
In a rapidly evolving passing league you want to return to running the football? That's perfectly fine with me if

1. You have a reliable run blocking line, &
2. You have great wide receiver depth to throw a limited amount of passes.

I said the 25 throws as an example, that there should be SOME (hence, the reduction in value as a fantasy stud) games we win this year where Brady doesn't even have to throw that much. Instead, what we are doing now is trying to win every single time the same way, and if that way doesn't work then we lose.

The O-line does a good job run blocking, have you seen the ypc numbers? The two tight ends can both run block and catch the ball.

The overall point of this isn't to insist that Brady throws under 25 times every week, it is that we shouldn't keep trying to win one way every week and not be able to manufacture a win if that one way doesn't work. The way we play right now, if Welker gets stopped we can't overcome that because we keep insisting on winning the same way.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

I said the 25 throws as an example, that there should be SOME (hence, the reduction in value as a fantasy stud) games we win this year where Brady doesn't even have to throw that much. Instead, what we are doing now is trying to win every single time the same way, and if that way doesn't work then we lose.

The O-line does a good job run blocking, have you seen the ypc numbers? The two tight ends can both run block and catch the ball.

The overall point of this isn't to insist that Brady throws under 25 times every week, it is that we shouldn't keep trying to win one way every week and not be able to manufacture a win if that one way doesn't work. The way we play right now, if Welker gets stopped we can't overcome that because we keep insisting on winning the same way.

You've gotten to the point where you are confusing your argument with what others have rightfully pointed out that you have argued against, then flip flopped and argued for, all the while maintaining Bill O'Brien is at fault.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

You've gotten to the point where you are confusing your argument with what others have rightfully pointed out that you have argued against, then flip flopped and argued for, all the while maintaining Bill O'Brien is at fault.

And that Bill Belichick is at fault for keeping him and/or letting him call the plays.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

And that Bill Belichick is at fault for keeping him and/or letting him call the plays.

I never blamed Belichick. This is the dozen'th time you keep making this up, it is pathetic how often you just pull things out of your a*s when you have no point.

I have repeatedly maintained that Belichick gives his coordinators plenty of autonomy, and that the failures and successes should have credit/blame given to coordinators too, not always to Belichick.'


There is no inconsistency in what I've been saying with the offense. Brady/Moss/Welker are great, but nobody in this league (besides possibly Peyton Manning) is so good that you can win every week insisting on succeeding through the same thing.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

I never blamed Belichick. This is the dozen'th time you keep making this up, it is pathetic how often you just pull things out of your a*s when you have no point.

I have repeatedly maintained that Belichick gives his coordinators plenty of autonomy, and that the failures and successes should have credit/blame given to coordinators too, not always to Belichick.

Brady said Belichick is in on every play called ... what part of that are you missing?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

The O-line does a good job run blocking, have you seen the ypc numbers? The two tight ends can both run block and catch the ball.

Honestly, I think that Maroney in particular gets a lot of his yards in spite of the run-blocking as much as because of it. It's why I've always liked him as a player, even when his stats were lacking. His blocking rarely does him any favors. Last night it did, for one drive anyways, but that was more the exception than the norm.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

Brady said Belichick is in on every play called ... what part of that are you missing?

It's hilarious and obvious that you did a quick google search looking for anything you could find.

You most undoubtedly passed over and didn't link to quotes and interviews with Belichick who talked about learning from his experience coaching in Cleveland, realizing that he can't do it all, and to learn to delegate and trust his coordinators.


Belichick may be listening in, but your premise is insane given how different the offense has looked from 01-04, 05-08, and now 2009.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

Honestly, I think that Maroney in particular gets a lot of his yards in spite of the run-blocking as much as because of it. It's why I've always liked him as a player, even when his stats were lacking. His blocking rarely does him any favors. Last night it did, for one drive anyways, but that was more the exception than the norm.

Which is what a lot of us who aren't particularly suicidal over Maroney have been saying for quite some time BradyFTW.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

Which is what a lot of us who aren't particularly suicidal over Maroney have been saying for quite some time BradyFTW.

Oh, I know- I've been maybe the most vocal supporter of Maroney here. After all of the crap that I got for insisting that he's a good player all this time, I'm really enjoying these last few weeks.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Offensive Fantasy Studs

Maverick, your argument isn't coherent. If Brady, Moss, and Welker are getting ridiculous fantasy stats every week... it means that the Pats offense IS PRODUCTIVE. When Moss goes for 100 Yards and 2 TDs and Welker goes for 100 yards and Brady throws for 300+ Yards and 3 TDs, that's a TON of clock time, successful drives, and lots of POINTS. How is that a bad? That's the goal, that's why you want to have those studs on your team.

Honestly, the problem should be if Brady, Moss, and Welker CAN'T produce. You only go to other options when your No 1 and 2 options aren't working. Do you honestly suggest this team throw to 3rd/4th receivers, TE, and RB despite being able to get the ball to Moss and Welker? Brady is supposed to make the reads and give the ball to the open guy. He usually does and it happens to be that Moss and Welker are the guys that get open the most (Go figure, the best WRs in the game are the best at getting open. It's mind boggling! )

It's up to Brady to make the right reads and not force the ball to Moss/Welker and it's up to O'Brian to call the best plays and make the right adjustments. Brady usually does his job, O'Brian really isn't. Other than that, the blame lies with the O-line.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

Honestly, I think that Maroney in particular gets a lot of his yards in spite of the run-blocking as much as because of it. It's why I've always liked him as a player, even when his stats were lacking. His blocking rarely does him any favors. Last night it did, for one drive anyways, but that was more the exception than the norm.

I agree, but the point is that this team can win in other ways. Insisting that we are failing due to lack of a quality 3rd or 4th receiver is SILLY. These posters are stuck in the myopic view that you can only win through the spread offense.

 

[eagle eye]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Studs

The O-line does a good job run blocking, have you seen the ypc numbers? The two tight ends can both run block and catch the ball.

Are you a stats guy now in this thread? And you are dishing guys on stats in other threads.

And this is so wrong its just unbelievable. You make things up as you go along to suit your argument.

Our YPC is 4.0 which is tied 22nd in the league.