Anyone Else Think Connor Barwin Is Overrated?

[Box_O_Rocks]

Because he's a football player and has had experience inside where he has done some of that. He has played every LB position.

Yup, so he has no "true" position (isn't that what the naysayers tell us about Barwin...not that you ever would.)

Yes, he was a backup until this year. But he did get plenty of PT in 2007. He was a backup to very talented group of players ( sound familar). He unseated a guy who was highly regarded.

He unseated a Freshman.

Now lets take your boy, who I think would be good to take in the 2nd round. How do we know that he can set the edge, has he done that? How do we know he can cover RB's and TE's, has he done that? We only know that he can pass rush from the DE position and was decent againts the run from the DE position. That's all we know.

Oooookay then, you want roll in the blood, and the mud, and the beer...

“The people who think he’s just a ‘try-hard, overachiever’ are wrong,” said NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock. “He was a former walk-on. He’s gained 55 pounds of muscle since he got there. He’s got athletic skills. And of all the USC linebackers, he can rush the quarterback better than any of them. I think he’s a solid, second-round kind of guy that’s going to start for somebody early in his career and play 10 years.”

“I think that’s part of the beauty of him, his versatility. I think he’s probably a 4-3 ‘will.’ But I know teams are looking at him for different things. And I think in today’s NFL, the more you can do from a versatility perspective, the better off you are.”

Courtesy of the unrelenting Christopher Price (I wonder if he annoys Armando Salguero too?). Christopher Price | The Son Also Rises: Matthews on cusp of NFL

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

There's gotta be film of him taking on blockers? Practice tapes maybe?

:nono:

 

[maverick4]

Now lets take your boy, who I think would be good to take in the 2nd round. How do we know that he can set the edge, has he done that? How do we know he can cover RB's and TE's, has he done that? We only know that he can pass rush from the DE position and was decent againts the run from the DE position. That's all we know.

Box is just going to play 'earmuffs' to your points and ignore them. Else, he'll just reiterate that he's an armchair expert who knows talent when he sees it, more than anybody, and anyone who disagrees with him will get some stupid emoticon smirk.

By the way, Barwin isn't even 'decent' against the run. He's below average to bad. Right now people are talking about an NFL situational pass rusher as if he won't last to the second round.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box is just going to play 'earmuffs' to your points and ignore them. Else, he'll just reiterate that he's an armchair expert who knows talent when he sees it, more than anybody, and anyone who disagrees with him will get some stupid emoticon smirk.

By the way, Barwin isn't even 'decent' against the run. He's below average to bad. Right now people are talking about an NFL situational pass rusher as if he won't last to the second round.

C'mon Mav, discuss the games you watched with Barwin, don't be shy.

 

[maverick4]

I just did some more reading. Connor Barwin is basically a better marketed Trevor Scott from last year. Scott went in the 6th round, was also a freakishly good athlete who played TE and was raw at DE late in college. Somehow Barwin is going to go five rounds higher according to so-called "experts" here?

Trevor Scott - Oakland Raiders - Career Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

 

[maverick4]

C'mon Mav, discuss the games you watched with Barwin, don't be shy.

I have watched a ton of clips of Barwin in the past week, and he has ONE pass rush move - he runs around the offensive tackle. He has no other major moves, though that one move was effective in college (it won't be as effective in the NFL). When tackles over-compensate on the outside he goes inside. As I said, he looks like a decent situational pass rusher and good intangibles, but has major question marks over whether he can play OLB.

Antonio Gates made the switch to TE from basketball, meanwhile a smart, raw athletic freak in Ben Watson hasn't panned out as a 1st round pick. There are maybe 5 other more polished OLB's in this draft than Barwin who has never played OLB before. I can see a justification for using a 3rd on him, but since so many here including you Box think he won't even be there at #23 or want to use #23 on him, that is over-rating him right there.

 

[maverick4]

More on Trevor Scott from last year's draft, an athletic freak who played TE 2 years and DE 2 years. He got 19 sacks his last 2 years as DE, and ran a 4.5 forty time, and his size was 6-5 250 pounds. He went in the SIXTH round.

Trevor Scott coughs up a nickel - PressDemocrat.com

 

[tanked_as_usual]

so mav.........all you know is some garbage you read......


ok........I though I was arguing with someone who actually knew something


it'll be better to go after a 1 trick pony like matthews who can only blitz and is incapable of covering

I''ve watched 'em both.....I'll take barwin

the only guy I'd rather have over barwin is curry

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I just did some more reading. Connor Barwin is basically a better marketed Trevor Scott from last year. Scott went in the 6th round, was also a freakishly good athlete who played TE and was raw at DE late in college. Somehow Barwin is going to go five rounds higher according to so-called "experts" here?

Trevor Scott - Oakland Raiders - Career Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Yep, Scott started Zero games for Oakland and had 5 sacks. Simply a pathetic waste of a draft pick. I'd like to say your comparison of the two is valid, but that would imply that they have similar talents beyond speed rush. This is the problem when the only comparison you make is their Combine/Pro Day numbers. The NFL Draft Scout profiles for both men paints a radically different picture, same people doing the assessment, so the difference must be the players.

I'm still waiting for your report on the Barwin games you watched and why he's so overrated.

EDIT: Ah, clips, well those are enlightening. Perhaps it's just me, but I try to avoid looking at clips since they rarely paint a full picture.

 

[maverick4]

the only guy I'd rather have over barwin is curry

Yet another example of how Barwin is definitely over-rated at this point.

Trevor Scott had just as crazy athletic measurables, a similar TE/DE background, even more production from the defensive side, and somehow Barwin will go 5 rounds higher according to the armchair experts here.

One thing I will say is world class about Connor Barwin are his PR and marketing skills. He definitely knows how to interview and brand/position himself as best as he can.

 

[maverick4]

Yep, Scott started Zero games for Oakland and had 5 sacks. Simply a pathetic waste of a draft pick. I'd like to say your comparison of the two is valid,

I never said it was a waste of a pick to take Trevor Scott. Scott was good value in the SIXTH ROUND, a solid backup and situational pass rusher, who is weak against the run and can't hold his position at the point of attack. That is pretty much what is going to happen to Connor Barwin. Barwin has the skills to play, he'll be similar to Scott in how he's used, and that is NOT worth a 1st round pick as so many here are salivating over.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I have watched a ton of clips of Barwin in the past week, and he has ONE pass rush move - he runs around the offensive tackle. He has no other moves, though that one move was effective in college (it won't be as effective in the NFL). As I said, he looks like a decent situational pass rusher and good intangibles, but has major question marks over whether he can play OLB.

Antonio Gates made the switch to TE from basketball, meanwhile a smart, raw athletic freak in Ben Watson hasn't panned out as a 1st round pick. There are maybe 5 other more polished OLB's in this draft than Barwin who has never played OLB before. I can see a justification for using a 3rd on him, but since so many here including you Box think he won't even be there at #23 or want to use #23 on him, that is over-rating him right there.

YouTube - DE Connor Barwin Highlights Cincinnati 2008

guess you missed this clip......which happened to be the first one that comes up on your tube.........he beat OT's outside, he stunded inside and did quite well disengaging the OT even when the OT got on him.....a couple of time he simply pushed the OT back........there were also several instances of strong run support........get a clue

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I never said it was a waste of a pick to take Trevor Scott. Scott was good value in the SIXTH ROUND, a solid backup and situational pass rusher, who is weak against the run and can't hold his position at the point of attack. That is pretty much what is going to happen to Connor Barwin. Barwin has the skills to play, he'll be similar to Scott in how he's used, and that is NOT worth a 1st round pick as so many here are salivating over.

who is salivating over barwin in the first round?

I simply say he's the 2nd best OLB prospect in the entire draft.....

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

who is salivating over barwin in the first round?

I simply say he's the 2nd best OLB prospect in the entire draft.....

I'm salivating about Barwin in the first round, but I'm silly that way. Odd, NFL Draft Scout had Trevor Scott at #178, they currently have Connor Barwin at #33...if NE does want him, and as an armchair GM I certainly do, then they take him at #23.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

YouTube - DE Connor Barwin Highlights Cincinnati 2008

guess you missed this clip......which happened to be the first one that comes up on your tube.........he beat OT's outside, he stunded inside and did quite well disengaging the OT even when the OT got on him.....a couple of time he simply pushed the OT back........there were also several instances of strong run support........get a clue

Oh c'mon tanked, finding a clip that shows more than one pass rush move (as also noted by NFL Draft Scout) is no fair.

 

[maverick4]

who is salivating over barwin in the first round?
.

Then you've missed the threads and posts talking about how he might not even be there at #23, and how people would be happy taking him at #23. That seems ridiculous to me. Let some other team spend 4 years developing this raw player.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Then you've missed the threads and posts talking about how he might not even be there at #23, and how people would be happy taking him at #23. That seems ridiculous to me. Let some other team spend 4 years developing this raw player.

raw.......using words like that is what's ridiculous

 

[maverick4]

YouTube - DE Connor Barwin Highlights Cincinnati 2008

guess you missed this clip......which happened to be the first one that comes up on your tube.........

I did see that clip. He has limited repertoire which will not be effective in the NFL. Go read some more scouting reports. Also, it's not really helping your argument by linking a highlight reel. Vernon Gholston and other raw athletic freaks looked amazing too last year based on highlight clips.

 

[maverick4]

raw.......using words like that is what's ridiculous

Yeah I know. Calling a player "raw" who only played DE one year and never played OLB in his life, must be insane.

Get a clue.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I did see that clip. He has limited repertoire which will not be effective in the NFL. Go read some more scouting reports. Also, it's not really helping your argument by linking a highlight reel. Vernon Gholston and other raw athletic freaks looked amazing too last year based on highlight clips.

Okay, so does this mean you really didn't believe the highlight clips you looked at when you said Barwin has one pass rush move?