Anyone Else Think Connor Barwin Is Overrated?

[Leave No Doubt]

Not inexperience per se, but lack of being ingrained in a particular system, scheme or position.

Like a blank slate; no ingrained tricks to unlearn yet has all the physical and intellectual abilities to be molded into whatever system he gets into. I think there's a ton of hype surrounding him but I don't think that makes him overrated. He's yet to disprove any of that hype either, it's hard to find a real proven downside; he sounds emininently coachable to me.

 

[patsfan13]

BB 3-4 seeks large LB not undersized LB. Maybe they can use him as a strong safety, forget Matthews.

Read the srticle by C Price I am wrong about Matthers size...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I swear to god, if the Patriots draft Clay Matthews' son at 23 overall I will put my manhood in a papercutter and pull the handle down.

I suppose it's just bait for your next charter... :confused2:

 

[DaBruinz]

Thanks, I will. I love your opinions too, perhaps you'll actually be accurate on one of your draft assessments one of these days...

Box had been accurate on a lot of his draft assessments. Which is more than you can say about your opinions.

 

[DaBruinz]

Matt Jones is another athletic freak who shot up the draft boards for his natural athletic ability, saying all the right things at the right time, and with the allure of versatility. Drew Henson was an athletic multi-sport freak who also didn't pan out, partly because he didn't focus on any one sport/position.

Raw athletic prowess is no substitute for demonstrated and learned performance on the field. It takes many repetitions and time in order to become an elite performer whether it be athletics, academia, music, art, etc. Go read Malcolm Gladwell's recent book on the subject. You can't just show up for one year based on pure athletic talent, and then expect to be a starting NFL defensive player without many years of learning and practice.

First of all, who is saying that Barwin will come in and be a "Starting NFL Defensive player" in year one? What's that? NO ONE? There goes part of your argument.

Secondly, there have been players who have walked into this league with NO college football experience and have excelled. Stephen Neal and Antonio Gates both say HI.

As for Malcolm Gladwell, what the hell does he know about football? NADA.. The fact that some people can and have jumped to the NFL with no college experience shows that there are exceptions. What you refuse to acknowledge is that Barwin is a FOOTBALL PLAYER with great athleticism. He's not a great athelete who is trying to play football. Barwin has spent 4 years playing at a Division 1 school where he was a TE, then a DE and played on special teams the entire time.

Most people high on Barwin know that he's going to take at least a year to be productive at the OLB position, but that he'll be out on the field in special teams situations and be right in the thick of it. And that's all you can ask for from a 1st round pick in the 1st year coming into a complex defense like the Pats have. Warren, Wilfork, Maroney, Graham and Meriweather didn't start immediately out of camp. Why would anyone expect Barwin to?

 

[DaBruinz]

A little off topic, but there seems to be a growing myth that Vernon Davis was nothing but a weight room phenomenon. In fact:

Consensus All-American and All-Atlantic Coast Conference first-team selection...Finalist for the Mackey Award, given to the nation's top tight end...Started every game, leading the team with 51 receptions and the conference with 871 receiving yards (17.1 avg)

As for the others, Matt Jones is a whole different animal, a projection from QB. It was flat-out bizarre that a team spent a 1st on him. And Drew Henson wasn't a measurables phenomenon at all...and wasn't drafted until round 6. For a closer (unfavorable) comparison to Barwin, you might look at some of the players who suddenly became left tackles as college seniors and were drafted for their athleticism at that position, like Guy Whimper or Joe Toledo.

Stop it, Patchick. You are using facts. That will just cause Mavs mind to explode.. And I don't think anyone wants to clean up that mess.

 

[maverick4]

Secondly, there have been players who have walked into this league with NO college football experience and have excelled. Stephen Neal and Antonio Gates both say HI.

As for Malcolm Gladwell, what the hell does he know about football? NADA.. The fact that some people can and have jumped to the NFL with no college experience shows that there are exceptions. What you refuse to acknowledge is that Barwin is a FOOTBALL PLAYER with great athleticism. He's not a great athelete who is trying to play football. Barwin has spent 4 years playing at a Division 1 school where he was a TE, then a DE and played on special teams the entire time.

Tight end is similar to a post up player in basketball, wrestling translates into offensive guard play. Taking on blockers and stopping the run has no relation to basketball, and is Barwin's major weakness.

Barwin is basically like Matt Cassel, a great athlete with good intangibles who is going to take years before he can start on the field. At best he'll be like a Ben Watson, another smart athletic freak with raw skills, who will take years before he becomes competent at his craft.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Tight end is similar to a post up player in basketball, wrestling translates into offensive guard play. Taking on blockers and stopping the run has no relation to basketball, and is Barwin's major weakness.

Barwin is basically like Matt Cassel, a great athlete with good intangibles who is going to take years before he can start on the field. At best he'll be like a Ben Watson, another smart athletic freak with raw skills, who will take years before he becomes competent at his craft.

you are rambling now......

the only difference between barwin and cassel is........ummmmmm.........barwin played college football and cassel didn't

also, comparing OLB to QB is about as ridiculous as it gets

 

[DaBruinz]

Tight end is similar to a post up player in basketball, wrestling translates into offensive guard play. Taking on blockers and stopping the run has no relation to basketball, and is Barwin's major weakness.

Barwin is basically like Matt Cassel, a great athlete with good intangibles who is going to take years before he can start on the field. At best he'll be like a Ben Watson, another smart athletic freak with raw skills, who will take years before he becomes competent at his craft.

Oh brother.. Nothing you mention changes the fact that Barwin has time playing DE at a college level and tht he spent 4 years playing for a D1 college team. It doesn't change that he is a FOOTBALL PLAYER who is athletic rather than an Athelete who plays football.

Most of the "conversion projects" have issues against the run. In fact, I am pretty sure they ALL do. Including Simtin.

No. Barwin isn't like Matt Cassel. Barwin is better. And no, Barwin isn't just an athletic freak with raw skills. And how the hell do you know how long it will take him to become "competent" at his craft? That's right. YOU DON'T. You are just talking out your butt right now because you've exaggerated EVERYTHING people have said in another lame arse attempt to try and show everyone you have some modicum of football knowledge. You've failed. And it just burns you up.

 

[BPF]

Although I don't think Barwin is a 1st Rd pick I do think he will be a good pro but I like Tucker's take here: NFL Draft preparation should center on player visit, not pro day - Ross Tucker - SI.com We always seem to get carried away this time of year with work outs and 40-times, etc. Yes those things are part of the process and the drills are tools to help teams determine the caliber of player/athlete they’re looking at and what athletic skills like balance, body control and change of direction he has but first and foremost we must ask ourselves, is this guy a football player? What's his character? How important is the game to him? What's his football IQ? If we're going to take this guy in Rd 1, Rd 2 or Rd 3 is there visual evidence of this player making plays? If not, can we project this player making plays in our scheme and on our team? Imo, Rds 1-3 you take players that have produced on the college level. Projections are for Rds 4-7.

"A lot of guys have chosen not to run at their pro day and they are standing on their numbers from the combine," said Brandt. All of which is fine except the numbers shouldn't be that important anyway. It is much more valuable to see how fast and explosive a player is on the field during actual action from his football position, not coming out of a sprinter's stance.

The second part of the final evaluations taking place across the league, the team visit, is much more important if you ask me. Teams are able to bring up to 30 players into their facility in an effort to get to know them better before making a decision. The premium during these encounters is placed upon trying to get to know the prospect's character, passion for the game and football intelligence.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I swear to god, if the Patriots draft Clay Matthews' son at 23 overall I will put my manhood in a papercutter and pull the handle down.

goodbye Mr. Happy. I think that here is a real chance for BB to draft Matthews at #23.

But, I think he will put him at ILB instead of OLB. He has the size, 6'3 246 vs Mayo 6'1 242. He has the speed and the kid has played in the middle in college. He would be willing and able to take on blockers. He and Mayo would be the ILB's of the future, with Guyton as a backup. Tedy is probably in his final year.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Although I don't think Barwin is a 1st Rd pick I do think he will be a good pro but I like Tucker's take here: NFL Draft preparation should center on player visit, not pro day - Ross Tucker - SI.com We always seem to get carried away this time of year with work outs and 40-times, etc. Yes those things are part of the process and the drills are tools to help teams determine the caliber of player/athlete they’re looking at and what athletic skills like balance, body control and change of direction he has but first and foremost we must ask ourselves, is this guy a football player? If we're going to take this guy in Rd 1, Rd 2 or Rd 3 is there visual evidence of this player making plays? If not, can we project this player making plays in our scheme and on our team?

Few here would argue with you, it's my observation in this thread that individuals trying to run Barwin down are the more likely suspects to point at the Combine and Pro Day before regurgitating Mike Mamula. Barwin's more ardent defenders are generally people who actually watched him play football.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

goodbye Mr. Happy. I think that here is a real chance for BB to draft Matthews at #23.

But, I think he will put him at ILB instead of OLB. He has the size, 6'3 246 vs Mayo 6'1 242. He has the speed and the kid has played in the middle in college. He would be willing and able to take on blockers. He and Mayo would be the ILB's of the future, with Guyton as a backup. Tedy is probably in his final year.

Why would he be willing to take on blockers? It's not like he's done that much in college.

 

[Clonamery]

Why would he be willing to take on blockers? It's not like he's done that much in college.

There's gotta be film of him taking on blockers? Practice tapes maybe?

 

[PATSNUTme]

Why would he be willing to take on blockers? It's not like he's done that much in college.

Because he's a football player and has had experience inside where he has done some of that. He has played every LB position.

Yes, he was a backup until this year. But he did get plenty of PT in 2007. He was a backup to very talented group of players ( sound familar). He unseated a guy who was highly regarded.

Now lets take your boy, who I think would be good to take in the 2nd round. How do we know that he can set the edge, has he done that? How do we know he can cover RB's and TE's, has he done that? We only know that he can pass rush from the DE position and was decent againts the run from the DE position. That's all we know.

 

[patchick]

Although I don't think Barwin is a 1st Rd pick I do think he will be a good pro but I like Tucker's take here: NFL Draft preparation should center on player visit, not pro day - Ross Tucker - SI.com

I really want to focus on the player visit too, but not one of the OLB prospects has taken me up on my offer to come to the house for a personal interview and break down some film in front of our family tv.

 

[bakes781]

The other day I used the word "risky" when referring to Barwin, when I meant to use the word "raw". That is not the 1st word I want to hear used when analyzing my 1st round selection. He's not being overrated by the "experts" who have him rated as an early-mid 2nd round choice, but those that worry he won't even be available at #23 are.

 

[Clonamery]

I really want to focus on the player visit too, but not one of the OLB prospects has taken me up on my offer to come to the house for a personal interview and break down some film in front of our family tv.

Shame on them.

 

[JoeShmoe]

The other day I used the word "risky" when referring to Barwin, when I meant to use the word "raw". That is not the 1st word I want to hear used when analyzing my 1st round selection. He's not being overrated by the "experts" who have him rated as an early-mid 2nd round choice, but those that worry he won't even be available at #23 are.

I think thats where I am too. I think this board has gone a bit crazy over one player who may have great potential. There's probably 30 others in our range with the chance to be pro-bowlers as well inc. more natural 3-4 OLB's

Unless the FO are amazed by him I cant see him going at #23 but then again who saw Mankins coming a few years ago? I can see a situation where if we are high on him then we play around with all the picks and pick him up behind an OT at the top of the second

 

[maverick4]

he's a natural........
the last time I can recall such a natural at any game is hakeem olajuwon

OK now we have posters comparing Barwin to a Hall of Fame top 20 all time player in his sport. Over-rated? Yes.