PonyExpress

Hey pi$$ boy, wait for the shake!

Cartwright

Well, since you "opened that door", I guess I can call you a bucket of shat??

Cartwright

Indianapolis
Having given up their first-round pick last year to land OLT Tony Ugoh detracted from the overall quality of this draft. Ugoh did start last season, but known competitiveness and durability concerns kept him from playing a good part of the season and leave the jury out on how good he will be.

So, 11 games started is a good part of the season??

Sicilian

It's almost a third of their games. Imagine a baseball player missing 50 games. It's sizeable, though I wouldn't exactly call it a "concern" per se. If it happened again this year, that's a different story.

Cartwright

True, and they lost 2 of the 5 he missed, so you could argue that his absence hurt the team.

4 of the 5 he missed were in consecutive weeks, and all the time lost was related to one injury. It's not as though he was "chronically injured" with a hang nail one week, and a belly ache the next. Fact also is that Dungy/Colts are known to be a bit cautious or conservative with guys coming off injury (right, wrong, true or false, that is the perception), and for me, I'd rather have a guy sit out an extra week in hopes of ensuring long term health.

It's not really a valid argument at this point, I wouldn't guess. If so, then you might want to start looking at Maroney in the same light. 6 games started out of 16 is not so good for a 2nd year first round RB.

Metaphors

If you take the time to actually read Pony's post, he makes a lot of good points. You don't need to agree with all of them (and I really don't either) but that doesn't mean they don't ring true. Ugoh did an admirable job considering he was a rookie under a lot of pressure. Despite that, he was far from a Joe Thomas level of production.

Manning's performance in 2007 was fairly uneven for him...still plenty good but not up to recent standards. There are a bunch of reasons for this including a variety of injuries to teammates (I also believe his skills showed a decline in 2007 but that is the subject for another thread). However, he was sacked and pressured more than I've seen in about the last 4-5 years...a good amount of that pressure from his blind side. Addai was also less effective in 2007. Again, many reasons for that but it was noticeable.

So if you stick to Pony's original point (that Ugoh is overrated as an elite LT), there is a good amount of evidence to support it. That doesn't mean he is a bad player and won't improve. Throwing out stats that are impossible to verify don't really add much to the conversation. 1.5 sacks allowed? How do you measure that? If he whiffs on a block and that forces Manning to step up into another defender's waiting arms, is that a sack allowed? 1 holding penalty? For the Colts that might have been the most penalized lineman in years.

Manning's performance was relatively uneven. Addai's productivity was down. Ugoh missed most of the big stretch of games where he was really needed. All of these are hard to dispute. Was Ugoh solely to blame for this? Hardly. Did Ugoh's level of play contribute to these results? Not sure how you could say otherwise.

D-cleater

looked pretty damn good against Seymour/Colvin , as I recall. didn't give up one sack, had little help as the TE lined up mostly on the other side , and still opened up some gaping holes for Addai.

It would not surprise me if the same people downgrading Ugoh would be the first to make excuses for O line's pathetic showing in the SB, rate Maroney higher than Addai, and say that Seymour is still a premier DL in the league.

Homerism at its finest

PonyExpress

Awesome analysis, considering Ugoh didn't play in the game vs the Pats. I'll just be kind and call you a clown.

Metaphors

As Ugoh was inactive for the Patriots game, I believe your recollection leaves a little to be desired.

jays52

Careful, guys, Uncle Rico aka ALS (Artificial Lat Spread) might just d-cleat ya for such logic!

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