Discussion in 'Visiting Locker Room' started by Double TE, Dec 11, 2012.
i have a bad feeling for my 9ers thisweekend
49erswebzone are a bunch of trolls. the official 49ers message board is the board which the 49ers own..
just go to forums 49ers . com
You must sign up in order to read them now. If you do sign up just let me know and I will accept your membership right away for you..
Of course some of our fans think we will blow you out, but most of the fans know this will be a very hard game for the niners to win.. I believe we lose this one and we lose to the hawks and end up 6th seed when this is all said and done. I just do not believe Kap has what it takes to lead the niners to the Superbowl this year. I believe with a full season behind him next year we have a chance. This year I am not sure..
No mater the outcome win or lose here is to a good game no injures and best of luck to the Pats the rest of the way..
Well...as a Niner fan and member of the 49erswebzone since Jan of 2005 I'd like to call a big, fat BS on your first line. Just a bunch of trolls, huh? Nice. My experience with peeps from the "official" site is that they look down their nose at everyone else...kinda like you are doing now.
ANYWAY....to all you Pats fans.....
No trash talking here. I have the utmost respect for New England...Belichik and Brady in particular. The Niners this year are kinda learning how the other half lives. IE, last year, they weren't a team that other teams measured themselves against. They get every teams best now. The Pats have been living with that reality for a decade.
The initial quoted comments to start this thread are of course ludicrous. You can't decide who is good or bad based on common opponents. Its a game of matchups. The Giants for example seem to have the Pats number of late, but it's not because they are "better". Its simply because they matchup well. Niners have some similar problems with the Giants, so I know what that's like.
So...in that regard, these are the matchups I'm looking at.
1) TEs: Is Gronk not gonna play? Hernandez is enough to deal with, but both will be tough. The Niners DO NOT eat up TEs. In fact to me it is one of their weaknesses. Donte Whitner is one hell of a Strong Safety, but he does struggle in coverage. Thats why I have a feeling he won't see the field much. I think they are going to rotate in thier 4th corner (Parrish Cox) and play nickel for alot of the game. This is one of the Niners strengths BTW...they are very deep at Corner. They're 3rd CB (Chris Culliver) may actually be the best CB on the team and will likely be the starter next year. The Niners have had success against pass heavy teams in this defense (Packers, Lions, Saints), but the Pats are admittedly a different animal. They do give up something in the run D in this formation (which is part of why they aren't as dominant in that category as last year), but they have usually been able to contain teams running game enough to not get run out of the defense. Willis and Bowman are very good coverage LBs, but I don't think they can be expected to take away Hernandez.
2) Pass Rush: I think this is a key on both sides of the ball. For the Niners, they have to put pressure on Brady or it's all over. I'll bet you guys have never heard that before, right. New territory. ;-) Seriously...the Niners need to get there with their front 4. If they have to blitz...bad Mojo. I think Aldon Smith is the best pass rusher in the game right now, but the Pats neutralized Watt for a good portion of the game last night. Aldon seems to save his best for games under the lights, but I'm not counting on it. They need Justin Smith and Ahmad Brooks to be forces. I firmly believe that the Niners right now have the best LB corps in the NFL. Actually I think they are the best since the Dome Patrol for the Saints in the 80's. Aldon Smith. Patrick Willis. Navorro Bowman. Ahmad Brooks. At least 3 of those guys will be in the Pro Bowl and possibly all-pros. On the other side, Kaepernick is an outstanding downfield thrower. His legs are what has gotten all the pub, but it's his arm and accuracy that has Niner fans excited. He has thrown some passes that have shocked us all. He is ACCURATE down the field. That has somewhat been taken away of late because teams have played off the receivers and the pass rush of the Rams and Dolphins have mucked things up. As good as he has played, he is still a YOUNG QB and prone to some mental lapses. I am counting on Belichik to have some surprises in store for young Kaepernick. If the Pats can get a consistant rush on him, it'll be tough sledding all night.
3) Run Game: Get ready for the niner run game. If you haven't seen it this year, be prepared to see stuff you haven't seen before. That doesn't necessarily mean I think the Niners will run all over the Pats...I'm just saying you will see some crazy shifts, formations and stuff. They will put 7 O-Linemen in the game with 2 TEs.....and throw the ball deep. They are unpredicatable. Some teams have shut them down pretty good...particularly on the road, but if they get that going...watch out. Losing Kendall Hunter as the #2 RB has really hurt them. Frank is fantastic, but he and Hunter had been sharing the load all year. This last game they finally activated 2nd round pick LaMichael James...and he looked pretty damn good. We'll have to see if that continues. As for the Pats, I know very little other than that they have a run game which can't be said for all of the other uber-passing offenses in the NFL. Mostly Draws and such? Power running with 2 TEs in base formations? You guys will have to fill me in on that one.
All in all, I have to admit this game makes me more than uneasy. The Niners really need this one to hold off the Seahawks for the division crown. I do NOT see the Pats putting up 42 pts, but I see both teams scoring in the mid to high 20s. I'm not going to make a prediction, but I think this one will be close.
There's a handful of great posters on 49erswebzone who make that site worth it to me. Unfortunately every site has delusional homers.
I think what is interesting is that this is the first NFL season I have watched where every single good team has been punked by inferior opposition. The Texans looked to be the team that did it's best to not lose to crap teams but got absolutely showed up twice on the big stage. So as a rule, "nobody is as bad as they appear to be when losing, and nobody is as good as they appear to be when winning."
Every week is different and every matchup is unique. Who really is better than who will have to wait for January & February.
Having said that, 49ers vs. Patriots is very intriguing and this is exciting for Niner fans as being the first meaningful game against Tom Brady. Also, there is a bit of that contrast in playing styles compared to other AFC teams we've played recently (Steelers, Ravens who are similar to us).
First off, hats off on a thorough takedown of Houston. It was a great effort in all 3 phases. Most of us figured it would be a close game, and the Patriots showed that the Packers/Texans game may not have been a fluke of a bad game by Houston.
Houston has shown a big vulnerability to not being able to come from behind, and I'll have to admit the 49ers are pretty much in the same boat. The Giants game proved that, at least psychologically the team cannot handle a big 14-20 point deficit early, whereas a mediocre team like the Cowboys can overcome it with no problem (see their 2nd Giants matchup). 49ers go into panic mode too easily this season. Last year they seemed to be better at handling that adversity than this season for some unexplained reason.
I like the 49ers chances so long as the game resemble a slug fest. If it's a situation where the 49ers can score at will but can't stop the Patriots offense much, that would worry me a bit. In many ways, there's more confidence in last year's team that had a worse offense but a more suffocating defense (at least turnover wise).
Matchup wise, I like the fact that we can go nickel a lot with Willis & Bowman to counter Hernandez (and Gronk if he was playing). The Patriots are running the ball better this year which means we might have to cheat one of our safeties in the box to stop the run (against Green Bay & Detroit, 6-7 in the box every down). Pressure is paramount as our secondary is not infallible to beating beaten. Given the significance of this game, I expect some exotic blitz packages to be used in this game that we have not seen since week 1 against the Packers. All of these blitzes on an "as need" basis. We prefer to rush 4....perhaps more stunts this game.
Brady has done an amazing job not turning the ball over, so cannot expect to capitalize that easily.
Something I find interesting about the 49ers is how much they care about unscouted looks and trying to gain competitive advantage by not showing their tendencies. Whether it's insecurity or just a Bill Walsh redux in the Harbaugh regime, often the best game plans and execution come in the biggest games. I really wonder how good of a game Kaepernick would have had if he had to start his first game against Miami in a non primetime game as opposed to Chicago, Monday Night? Part of that great game was the "unveiling" of an unknown quantity, but clearly they wanted to make a statement regardless of who was QB that night.
When I look at the Patriots defense, I'm more concerned about Wilfork, Nimkovich, Mayo and the rest of the front 7 against the run. The 49er rhythm is dictated by the run and establishing the short pass. That is just their MO.....opening up the intermediate/deep game seems reserved for the bigger matchups, and right now teams are confusing Kaepernick enough to delay his throws and get sacks.
I expect BB and co. to find another wrinkle to flumox the kid, and that's where most of the concern lies. Coughlin and co figured out how to stymie the 49er offense with Alex Smith, and I'd imagine BB has ways to deal with both of them. It's amazing how staff can overcome everything, because the Giants defensive talent is not like Chicago, Seattle, St. Louis but they figured it out and executed better. Quite honestly, I was amazed that the Patriots were able to shut down the Giants pretty well in the super bowl and nearly beat them....without a HEALTHY GRONK!
Belichick is the real deal.
Should be a great game, and if our flaws are exposed and we lose it should hopefully give us enough ammo to beat the remainder of our schedule and do well in the playoffs.
I wish you luck and an injury free game on both sides. I want the win for pride and playoff seeding sake, but there won't be that hatred like there is for that team in blue!
And Mr. Marvin49 who posted above is much loved on the 49erwebzone.
Real talk as it gets for calling it as it is.
Other than Gore, I do not think your Offense is all that physical including the athletic but still finesse TE Vernon Davis. Manningham = finesse; Crabtree...come on. Ginn Jr? Gore is hard nosed but the Pats Run D is very good led by the "SEC Linebackers" and big Vince Wilfork. Good luck running against the Pats. You can throw on them if you have a good QB. Is your rookie good enough? We'll find out.
Meanwhile your D is LUCKY that Gronk is out but they will be surprised at how effective NE's running game is. And our QB (your hometown hero) is pretty good.
There are 5 guys called the offensive line that is perhaps the most physical there is in the run game (pass protection, different story). The wide receivers do a better job being physical in blocking than getting open.
There is legit concern for 49er fans, but then we look at fellow NFC West Arizona & Seattle's performances and we are comforted a bit. St. Louis blowout is an anomaly given they have not lost a game yet to the entire NFC West.
Quite frankly the intimidation with the Patriots defense is mostly scheme and playcalling more than talent (if we're gonna get into evaluating people honestly, like you are with us ). Who is all pro on that D besides Wilfork? Legit question.
And that new corner you picked up, Talib, made a nice pick 6 against Luck, but was also part of Eli's 500+ yard day earlier this season.
Bottom line is the Patriots will be good till the final whistle but would very much like to build a 14-20 point cushion on the 49ers more than perhaps any other team in the league. A dogfight against Houston may not have ended as well.
Uh...who said anything about the offensive skill positions being "physical". We can go one more if you like and add LaMichael James as another "Finesse" guy. What's your point? The 5 guys who line up in front of them are pretty damn physical. At times there are 6 or 7 of those 300+ lb guys to mash on the "SEC LBs". Don't sleep on the Niner running game. They have led the league for most of the year for a reason. Gore is averaging 4.9 yards per carry and Kendall Hunter was averaging 5.2. There are some pretty damn hard core defenses in the NFC West (as the Pats have seen for themselves), so they haven't been doing this on nobodies.
BTW...you can have your SEC LBs, I'll just take the best LB corps in the NFL this generation. Aldon Smith: 19.5 sacks through 13 games (and has the most sacks in NFL history through 2 seasons...and still has three games left). Patrick Willis: 5 time All-Pro. Navorro Bowman: All-Pro in first season as a starter. Good luck running yourself.
Oh yeah...and the Safeties hit like trucks as well. Oh yeah...and that Justin Smith guy is pretty good too. The Pats are gonna take some big hits. That alone won't win the game for the Niners...this is a tough one, but don't question the Niners physical nature. You just look silly.
My point Marvin, is that the more physical team will likely win (my theory does not mean its correct) and I contend that the Pats and not the Niners are the more physical team on BOTH sides of the ball actually.
Does not mean the Pats win but I think you will be surprised at the D and how much it has improved since that flukish loss to Seattle.
...and my point is that you are totally incorrect.
Pats may still win, but it won't be because they are "more physical".
That's like me saying "yeah, the 49ers are going to win this game because Kaepernick is better than Brady".
So my opinion is wrong? Wow! OK
Show me direct evidence that the Niners are a more physical team please. I can show you stats that indeed show TB is better than CK.
Thank you and kind regards.
The more physical team wins? No. I've been through a period with Mike Singletary who preached physicality "with a capital F" (lol), and I can tell you that it is just an element.
I tell you what though Double TE, Welker is going to be key for you guys. Whitehead and Vereen possibly too. We really struggle with great slot receivers, and we have historically struggled with screens, although that may be changing now.
But as you may have read elsewhere, we are a complete defense with balanced tendencies. We don't blitz often when Aldon Smith and Justin Smith are a two man wrecking crew, but Brooks/Willis/Bowman all can create serious heat not unlike the Pittsburgh Steelers LBs.
I think all game, both teams will be containing the other while on defense. The Pats seem like a conservative-minded D, and we will eat up little yards and be happy with it. The 49ers will play off the WRs to protect deep, the front seven will stay disciplined, but our talent is so great that we will still make aggressively good plays like sacks and possibly an INT or two. I forsee this being a very, very tight game. Mistakes will be crucial on both sides.
The D is nasty in SF. Both teams played Miami recently. NE had two sacks and three QB hits while SF had two sacks and four QB hits. Final scores were similar. I think the NE O and D are better than those of the Fins so to your point the game should be close.
A lot depends on if Gronk can go. I still believe the more physical team will have a significant advantage. If the Pats can stop Gore and make the Niners one dimentional it will be huge.
It's not stopping Gore you have to worry about. Gore is going to get his because he's one of the best in the league at breaking tackles. You have to stop our offensive line. If you prevent big holes, Gore is only getting 3 at a time instead of 10 yard clips. LaMichael James could play a significant role too if his style is harder for New England to stop.
Could you generally say the types of players you guys struggle with? Like I said, great slot WRs kill us. As do passes to scatbacks out of the backfield. In the running game, we're leading the league in limiting yards per carry, but zone blocking can get us in a little trouble at times because we tend to play 1 gap football.
I have a very good friend who is a Niner fan and we've been jabbering at each other for a couple weeks now and I think the best way I can describe the game is as an unstoppable force hitting an immovable object. We both anticipate a great game. I actually picked NE-SF as the Super Bowl in the preseason and could still see it happening so I am very excited to see how it turns out.
SF has an insanely, insanely good defense, but their offense is subpar, yet improving.
NE has an insanely, insanely good offense, but their defense is par, yet improving.
I think this game comes down to the fact that while our defense is pourous, we steal balls and then we put them in the end zone.
Kaepernick to me is Tebow 2.0 (or even 3.0) and even a vastly improved Tebow doesn't scare me. We will certainly work on containing him and Gore and force him to beat us with his arm and his (sorry!!) laughable receiving core. While you could counter that our own receiving core is also somewhat laughable at the moment, I would counter that no receiving core is laughable with Brady throwing to them.
Admittedly I haven't seen many Niner plays that weren't on the Red Zone, but the fact that in 10 quarters of football you guys couldn't eek out even one win against STL tells me that you don't yet have that killer instinct that the Patriots need fear.
The SF strength is keeping the opposing team OUT of the red zone. Once there, they aren't overly great at stopping the other team. I just don't see them being able to pull it off.
Either way, I am extremely excited for the game!
For some reason the Pats used to struggle with big backs and accurate QBs that throw deep. But the running backs this year have not hurt the Pats because the LBs and Wilfork have stepped up and I think because the offense gets off to big leads that the other team is forced to throw. Check out the forced fumble stats the Pats have...tell me what you think.
IN MY OPINION, you are wrong.
The 49ers are the most physical defense in the league...and hell, Tom Brady himself said so yesterday.
Obviously there are no stats to make an argument one way or the other, but I think you will see what I'm talking about on Sunday.
A couple things....
I wouldn't call the Niners O "subpar". They have either the #1 or #2 ranked rush offense in the league. They don't put up huge passing numbers, but they really aren't designed to. While the Pats run the most plays in the NFL, the Niners go the exact other way...they seldom snap the ball with more than a few seconds on the play clock. They slow the game down.
PLEASE, don't put the Tebow label on Kaep. Tebow is a joke. Kaep has great movement skills, but its his arm and accuracy that are the reasons he's starting. He can throw passes Alex could never throw. The media makes a huge deal out of his mobility, but that isn't the reason he's playing. Tebow can hardly throw the ball. Kaep has a HUGE arm. I mean HUGE. Randy dislocated a finger trying to catch one of his passes. Now, of course, a huge arm doesn't make him a great QB, I'm just saying...ENOUGH with the Tebow comparison. If you wanna make a comparison, Randall Cunningham is much, much closer.
"Laughable" receiveing corps? Crabtree, Manningham, and Moss? You just may be in for a rude awakening. The only reason these guys don't have bigger numbers is that the 49ers are so devoted to the running game. Crab is a very good receiver, he just doesn't get many chances. Manningham has been clutch when he's healthy and Moss has been a sage vet for the entire team and been pretty good on third down.
LOL...always the Rams. LOL. You do realize that the Niners are 8-2 against everyone else. The problem with the Rams is just an question of matchups. I suppose I should just assume that the Pats suck too because they lost to both the Cards and Seattle (Both teams the Niners beat this year)? You should also know very well that divisional games are simply a different animal.
If the Niners D is so bad in the Red Zone (which they aren't) then why do they allow the fewest points in the NFL while allowing the second fewest last year?
Look...I'm not trying to say the Niner will win, but I think you need to give the Niners just a bit more respect there.
So you disagree with my opinion, I am not wrong. Goodness. And the most physical D is semantics. The Pats have 31 Forced Fumbles...they aren't playing Soccer out there.
How would TB know anyway, while he is a great QB he is not clairvoyant. He has never played them. Of course he said so, he is building the opposition up. Billy does the same crap no matter who the Pats play. It is you who will see the damage the Pats D brings.
Separate names with a comma.