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Pats fans, explain the Pats schemes to me

Discussion in 'Visiting Locker Room' started by wiltondeportes, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. wiltondeportes

    wiltondeportes Rookie

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    I'm a 49er fan. I definitely love your offense, but even your defense impressed me today. Of course you once had a great defense. Please explain what makes the offense and defense works. Which types of plays, concepts, player sizes and styles you prefer on offense and defense. Please be specific instead of just saying intelligence or versatile players.

    And why did Belichick move to the 4-3? I read him saying that it made it easier to go from nickle to base if the front was the same. I'm curious if he sees this as a permanent change, or if he wants to get back to the 3-4 when he can because he still thinks it's superior.

    Secondly, I just want to say that it will be a great game this week.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  2. Get it shawtaay

    Get it shawtaay Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    In general, Belichick prefers a read-and-react style defense to an attacking one, and that is reflected in most of his decisions.

    Up front, he is an ardent believer in two-gap schemes. He likes his DT to be big bodied guys who can command double teams and hold the POA in the run game. He also generally likes big players. For example, the Pats starting defensive tackles (Vince Wilfork and Kyle Love) are listed at 325 and 315 but are probably both around 330 lbs right now. The linebackers are large by NFL standards - Mayo, Spikes, and Hightower weigh in at 250, 255, and 270 respectively. BB likes big guys. Doesn't blitz much, either, and runs very few stunts.

    Historically, in the secondary he has utilized bump-and-run coverage a lot. He also likes to use zone/man combo coverages, where defenders react to the way the play unfolds and play man within zones. Also uses a lot of quarters. Plays LCB and RCB - no moving corners around.

    As for scheme, he's been getting a little more creative each week. Sending Mayo on more blitzes, for example.
  3. wiltondeportes

    wiltondeportes Rookie

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    Ah, all of that makes a lot of sense to me. I can see why he has struggled in more recent years with offenses getting more spread out. His philosophies worked better when teams ran a base offense most of the game.

    Now, do you see him changing at all? Could he go back to the 3-4 next year, or is the 4-3 what he views as the better choice all things considered? Or would he truly prefer to be multiple from week to week?

    And let's talk offense for a minute. I know a bit, but I'd rather hear your side first.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  4. 11back

    11back Rookie

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    habaugh has our offence decling at the perfect time! keaps the man!:rofl:
  5. Get it shawtaay

    Get it shawtaay Rookie

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    Exactly. If Belichick's defenses have had a hallmark, its being smart and physical, and not being able to do the latter near the LOS much anymore has made his brand of defense (sound, fundamentals-based) much harder to play. You have to gamble more in the modern NFL, and disrupt plays sooner, and BB is still figuring out how to balance that with a scheme that has brought him a ton of success over the past decades.

    It'll be 4-3 for a while, considering the DL personnel. But he still busts out the 3-4. For example, during last year's playoff run we didn't have a defensive end after Andre Carter went down. So he put Brandon Deaderick at 5-tech on one side of the line and Mark Anderson at 4-3 RE, shaded the linebackers over to the right side, and put Ninkovich on the end of the line like a 3-4 OLB. We've seen similar 50/50 looks a few times this year, except with Chandler Jones shifting inside to a 5-tech role, Ninkovich playing rush end, and Hightower standing on the line.


    Tom Brady. On that subject, I'd rather defer to the more knowledgeable though.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  6. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

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    The Patriot scheme is whatever your scheme is weak at.

    I'm not being cute, Belichick prefers versatile personnel to be able to switch formations and styles week to week.
  7. wiltondeportes

    wiltondeportes Rookie

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    Ok, I'll start it then. His scheme seems to have two separate offenses: the Run-N-Shoot and old school smashmouth football. Get ahead, get ahead some more, and then run the ball. There seem to be a whole lot of sight adjustments for receivers, so they value intelligence highly.

    Currently, their passing scheme has been made into more of a ball control offense than the high flying O they had with Moss. Now, they want to control the first 10-15 yards of the line of scrimmage. They use a spread concept of screens to help keep the defense honest and attack weaknesses ASAP. Their WRs are all about getting separation, catching the ball, and being tough. They could give a damn if they're 6'3" 220. What they want are the guys with maximum acceleration in and out of cuts so that they create initial separation so Brady gets them the ball. The tight ends are the moving pieces that connect the passing to the running. You use a traditional TE in Gronk and a hybrid TE in Hernandez. These guys get you better mismatches than even a 6'3" 220 WR would have that mentioned earlier, and you never have to leave base personnel to do it. In the sense, all four of your receivers in a 2WR 2TE set create a nice mismatch, especially in relation to the first 10-15 yards from scrimmage. If either of your top WRs had more speed, that would be one more element of the offense, but that's not what the system relies on.

    Now, your running game is not something I am as well-versed on. I've seen a lot of zone blocking from you guys, but I would imagine there's more. If you don't use a fullback much, it certainly lends to running zone plays. Fill me in more here.

    Personnel:
    QB: Emphasis on throwing power, accuracy, and intelligence. This is a very classic dropback passer that is allowed to be a statue in the pocket.
    RB: They want a stable. A couple that run the smashmouth game, and a couple scatbacks for the shotgun game as well as a change of pace for the running game.
    TE: Critical to the current O. They want a couple great blockers and a couple great receivers. At least one guy (Gronk) is great at both, so they utilize him to disguise to defenses what they're doing.
    WR: Size doesn't matter. Change of direction, separation, good hands, and intelligence are what they want. Luckily, other teams don't draft those types of WRs early in the draft.
    OL: Emphasis on pass blocking ability without sacrificing size. Seeming emphasis on guards. Fill me in more here.


    Thoughts? Please add anything that I'm missing.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  8. Chopblock CB

    Chopblock CB Rookie

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    Simply put.....Schemes are developed on a team by team basis..as mentioned...attacking the weak points of a team on both sides of the ball....and defending their strong points....
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  9. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Whatever BB feels is the strength of your team he will try and neutralize it. For example if the niners like to run he will scheme the defense to stop it and make Kapernick win the game. BB will then try to confuse a young QB like Kapernick with different defensive looks which change all the time.
  10. wiltondeportes

    wiltondeportes Rookie

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    Y'all make it sound like it's mystical. Can you get out of the clouds and explain the tactics instead of the philosophy?
  11. Get it shawtaay

    Get it shawtaay Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    Big arm and mobile are a combination of traits which the Pats don't have a good answer for as constructed. I'd guess there will be little pressure from the Pats this weekend:

    1. Belichick will make containing Kaepernick a priority and instruct his defensive linemen to take away his lanes at the expense of trying to generate pressure around the edge. The NE secondary has had a lot of communication breakdowns when the QB gets out of the pocket, and the linebackers are not built to run with a guy like Kaepernick.

    2. I wouldn't expect much (if any) exotic blitzing either because the 49ers have a lot of players who can take one to the house. Last week we could single up Kevin Walter and Keyshawn Martin comfortably. You can't do that with Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, Mario Manningham, etc. Not to mention speed demons like Ted Ginn Jr and Kyle Williams.

    3. Overall I'd anticipate base defense of the most conservative variety. Mayo will be dropping back on most downs, and the safeties will be well off the LOS. The focus is likely going to be to 1) stop the run game and 2) stop the big play. The middle of the field will be open a lot, and Kaepernick will be given opportunities to make plays. By trying to take away the run and the long ball, they will try and make the 49ers put the ball in his hands and hope he screws up.
  12. wiltondeportes

    wiltondeportes Rookie

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    1. Kaep is actually generally not a scrambler until he has to be. This is a misconception. If Belichick does this, he gives a guy with a rocket arm and great accuracy a chance to pick him apart.

    2. You overrate some of our receiving talent. Davis is a true big play guy, but the others, not so much. Ginn is garbage, and Williams is out for the year anyway. We rotate our WRs a lot though, so we can scrape some big play production out of Manningham and Moss. One deep wild card is AJ Jenkins. We just activated him for the first time either last week or the week before I believe. He has good talent, and he could be a burner if we give him the chance. Side note: Our second rounder, LaMichael James was just put into action for the first time last week, and he shined like a diamond by all accounts. I like the mismatch of him on one of those fat linebackers of yours if he's in going out for a pass. I also don't like the mismatch if he's blocking one of them.

    3. That's interesting to understand the Pats philosophy of not giving up the big play through the air or ground. The Niners philosophy itself is conservative by eating up little chunks without going for the big play until you least expect it. I think we could really feed upon the Pats conservative approach.

    Sounds like, with the way our philosophies matchup offensively and defensively, it is going to be a bloodbath. I mean, it's going to be a very tough game for both sides, and even the winner could look like the loser.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012

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