Welcome to PatsFans.com

The understated key to the Giants, and the difference between NE and NY

Discussion in 'Visiting Locker Room' started by ivanvamp, Feb 6, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    During the Giants' playoff run, there were 10 fumbles (not counting the one nullified by the Pats' penalty). 3 Giant fumbles and 7 opponent fumbles. Creating fumbles is a skill; recovering them, as statisticians will tell you, is essentially a 50/50 proposition. You can be in perfect position to recover it but, because of the shape of the ball, it could bounce totally away from you. So getting a fumble is mostly luck. Anyway, of these 10 fumbles, the Giants recovered *8* of them. All of them in the Super Bowl. Any one of them goes the other way and it's almost certainly the ballgame.

    In the two Super Bowls between the two teams, there were 5 fumbles (4 by the Giants, 1 by the Patriots), and *ALL FIVE* were recovered by the Giants.

    In the last 3 games between the two teams, there have been 9 fumbles (6 by NY, 3 by NE), and *8* of the 9 were recovered by the Giants. Again, forcing fumbles is a skill (and NE forced more Giant fumbles than NY forced Patriot fumbles). Recovering them is mostly luck, and those numbers I just cited are so far out of whack with what is statistically normal it boggles the mind.

    Yes, we can talk about all kinds of things, but in many ways, the difference between these two evenly-matched teams comes down to the weird bounce of an oblong football.

    And, frankly, that's a bit harder for me to take than if NY was simply better.
  2. g650

    g650 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2012
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    It seems the Pats also play not to lose. The Giants play to win.
  3. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,391
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    If any one of these 9 plays doesn't happen the way they did, we are happier today:

    Welker’s drop,
    two fumbles that bounce to Giants teammates,
    12 men on the field that negates a turnover and allows a TD later,
    Ninkovich's offsides penalty that negated a 3rd down stop,
    Hernandez’s drop,
    Manningham's sideline catch & the TO wasted on a challenge,
    the safety,

    and Gronkowski’s ankle injury 2 weeks ago.


    Oh well…

    I am not saying any of them are "flukes" or anything. It is what it is. I'm sure we have won some where the opponent had nine things they could point to that could have turned the tide for them.

    The roster is younger, the cap situation is manageable, the talent level is high, and we have capital in draft picks.

    No time to let the ball stop rolling.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  4. eom

    eom Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,556
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    That's actually some pretty interesting stuff.

    I can't remember this story too well, but there was a former bear on local chicago radio ---- maybe doug buffone.
    he said when he was playing he would make a point to haul ass after every fumble and he never gave up chasing those things but maybe 9 would escappe him, but when he finally got that tenth one everybody would say how lucky he was
  5. strongside

    strongside Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2007
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Giants are just more balanced. They remind me of the 03/04 pats. Both those teams were built on tough physical Dline. 34 vs 43 but still it all started upfront with both those teams.
  6. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,391
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    baloney!

    Letting them score a TD and saving a minute of clock was playing to win.

    Throwing the ball to Wes Welker at the 20 with 4 minutes left instead of using up clock by unsuccessfully running the ball was playing to win (Sure I would like to be able to ground and pound ala clock-killin' Cory Dillon, but that is not the make-up of our offense right now)

    Playing tight coverage vs. dropping back in soft zones was playing to win.

    I have no issue with how we played the game, strategically. We just did not make enough good plays.
  7. PatriotFan77

    PatriotFan77 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    All plays aside, Pats just **** the bed.
  8. g650

    g650 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2012
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    That's how I see the Patriots play. Not that I'm complaining:)
  9. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    5,040
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Herm would like to put his two cents in:

    [​IMG]
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    21,845
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -1

    The one Pierre Woods failed to recover in SB 42 was not luck.
  11. Dutchmaster617

    Dutchmaster617 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I still can't logically explain how we lost to the Giants in 08 or last week, but two things come to mind: The WRs ability to aggressively make catches, and the O-lines ability to stall the rush. We couldn't do either, you can also look at the fumbles, no other way we lose two HUGE games to such an inferior team.
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,761
    Likes Received:
    53
    Ratings:
    +72 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    It depends upon how you mean luck. In one example of how it can be used, if you're here just to troll, you'll be lucky to get many posts in before you get banned.
  13. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    16,679
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0

    #95 Jersey

    Just another bandwagon giants fan jumping on the train..they are all around my area now
  14. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,128
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +56 / 2 / -2

    that was chalked up to the Giants getting four turnovers from Tom Brady(edit:3 from Brady, 1 from Edelman) and Eli taking the porous,in flux secondary apart in the final minutes...what the hell "against a healthy Gronk" is supposed to mean shows you to be an infant in terms of football acumen..Gronk had 8 catches for 101 yards in that game, Welker 9 for 130...don't get the Gronk slam, unless you ARE a boneheaded troll
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  15. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Anything the Giants lost by not having Nicks or Bradshaw was more than compensated for by the Pats having Brown and White on the field.
  16. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Considering what happened in the NFCCG, I'd suggest that you ought to be appreciating Lady Luck more than any team in the NFL play-offs this year. Oh, and if you want to use injuries as excuses, Hernandez was greatly limited by injury in the NE/Giants regular season game and Chung and Spikes both left with injuries. Tracy White, who likely didn't play another game on defense, was the defender on the pass to Ballard and Sergio Brown, another special teamer, was in for Chung on the critical play in the last drive. So don't come around here trolling about "luck" and/or injuries. Your post reminds me of the low-rent punks on your team. They're worse than the Jets in that regard and, more importantly, Giant fans are worse than Jet fans in that department as well. So, screw off.
  17. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,128
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +56 / 2 / -2

    on a side note...it does warm one's heart to see that even the worst, hackneyed, teeth grating, moronic aphorisms like "who's your daddy?" has finally migrated to the backwoods,bohump burghs of rural Indiana (which, in essence, is the entire state outside of six downtown Indy blocks)..."hoosierdaddy"..yeah...you get a half a "heh"....I'd tell you to go run and get your shinebox but you'd probably trip on a cowpie and break your fool neck...
  18. Koma

    Koma Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    839
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    It was fortunate that Cundiff missed a makeable FG.

    The Evans play was not the result of luck. When a defensive back knocks the ball out a receiver's hands, it was not "luck" that caused the incompletion (Unless Andrew Luck has a brother who plays safety or corner.)
  19. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,128
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +56 / 2 / -2

    yep...a pathological liar...you ARE a real Giants fan...
  20. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    No more fortunate than the Giants were to even make the playoffs at 9-7.
  21. Koma

    Koma Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    839
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Was that within the Patriots control? Did they adjust their schedule week by week to play teams that they knew would finish the season .500 or worse? Or should the Patriots have to play a random division leader every week just to make sure they...Ah, why am I wasting my time responding to this?
  22. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,128
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +56 / 2 / -2

    I never said that...what I was referencing was YOU, referencing Gronk in the Giants win in Foxboro...YOU insinuated he did nothing in that game against your vaunted defense...I pointed out that Welker and Gronk ate your freakin' lunch that day and furthermore,that BRADY, through his three turnovers, was the REAL culprit in that loss. I still don't know why you posted what you did referencing Gronkowski...I'll just chalk it up to your unspoken fear and jealousy at what a healthy Gronkowski can do against your defense.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  23. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Patriots: 13-1 against teams 8-8 or below
    Giants: 8-4 against teams 8-8 or below

    That's the difference. The Packers, Saints, and 49ers I can understand. But losses to the Seahawks, Eagles, and Redskins twice are far worse than losses to the Bills, Giants, and Steelers.
  24. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,128
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +56 / 2 / -2

    answer THIS truthfully: did YOUR life flash before your eyes when Eli threw that flopping wounded duck that TWO SF defenders went after so hard that they knocked each other out of the game in the 4th quarter?..you remember, that 99 times out of 100 sure INT?

    cherry picking what ifs work both ways....reality is the only thing that counts...your Giants won the last game of the season...congrats...the rest of this rubbish is just that...
  25. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    As long as the Packers drop 8 passes and the 49ers have two ST turnovers, absolutely.
  26. tuckeverlasting

    tuckeverlasting Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    two lucky wins and these guys are talking like they're pretty special. face reality. you guys are gonna fade into oblivion while the pats are going to continue to play in superbowls ad infinitum. i'll give the Gay-men this, they are the best 9-7 team ever.


    Gay-men = luckiest team ever !!!
  27. borg

    borg Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,712
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Losing 2 SBs and a home game to the Gmen.....hats off to the better team
  28. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    It was worse than luck. It was a bad call by the ref. Woods had possession of the ball. He was on the ground. Then Bradshaw dove on him and wrestled the ball free. Because Woods had possession, the *instant* Bradshaw touched him, it should have been down by contact, Patriots' ball. But the refs allowed Bradshaw to rip the ball free.

    Woods should have held on. Bradshaw hustled and outfought Woods. Those two things are undeniably true. But equally undeniably true is the fact that Woods HAD THE BALL and it should have been whistled dead the moment Bradshaw touched him.

    A bad call that turned out to be a huge play in the game.
  29. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    The Patriots and Giants played 9 games each against common opponents (Wash., Buff., Miami, Phil., Dallas and NYJ). NE was 8-1 in those games and New Jersey was 6-3. See ya...
  30. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,502
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Add this Giants Defense batting down Brady's balls...Giants Defense putting fear into Brady. Somehow i don't think Eli was afraid of our D.:snob:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page