Coming to peace with Eli.

[fair catch fryar]

Any comparison between the two is stupid, until Eli is 34. At this point in their respective careers though, Eli is catching up.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Luckiest QB in the NFL for two of the last 5 seasons. He's good, but you don't win two Super Bowls with a relatively mediocre team unless you're damn lucky.

You have to be great AND lucky to win in this league. Eli and the Giants have had their share of breaks, yes probably moreso than the norm, but credit where it's due. They have our number right now.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Im gonna have fun tearing apart your post because I cannot stand when people cry about regular season records. YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO IN ORDER TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

Let me ask you. Do you know WHY playoffs exist in North American popular sports but not in, lets say, some European popular sports? Like soccer for instance. In America we have divisions in the MLS. No European Leagues do this.

Heres why:

Because in Europe countries are much smaller, so do to less travel time, and close proximity to opponents, teams can easily play every other team in the league at least once. This way you don’t crown a champion and then have people crying about the strength of schedules being different, like in NCAA football for example.

“In the U.S. and Canada, the vast distances and consequent burdens on cross-country travel have led to regional groupings of teams, usually called divisions. Generally, during the regular season, teams play more games against opponents that are within their own grouping than those outside it. Since every team has not necessarily had a chance to prove itself against every other team, a playoff is necessary every season. Any team that wins its grouping is eligible to participate in the playoffs.”Playoffs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is also done to create rivalries and increase fan interest. Also since the NFL is only a 16 game season, you cannot possibly have teams play the same strength of schedule without playing everyone else. Win your division, you get into the playoffs….the Giants did that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moving on,

the Giants played in a damn competitive division this year and most years. The Redskins are usually the only team in the NFC east that never does much. In the last decade, part of why the Patriots have had such good records is because their division is less competitive. Bills and Dolphins aren’t much to sneeze at, despite the dolphins making the playoffs a couple years back. And the Jets….well…besides the two years prior to this season, they have been mediocre at best.

If this 2007 and 2011 playoffs and regular season games against the Giants has showed us anything, its that the Patriots would have a tough time in the NFC East. At least imo.

Now because the strength of schedules are not equal, which is because we are forced to use divisions due to only having 16 game seasons and travel issues, playoffs are necessary in crowning a true champion. So, as said before, if you win your group you make the post season and anything goes.

No need to cry about regular season records. In any pro sport with playoffs, no matter how you draw it up, sometimes teams will make it with less than stellar regular season records. The only way around this is to have an even strength of schedule, and this is not possible in a sport that plays less number of games than the number of teams in the league. And its tougher to do in a country that’s very large and spans different time zones. This is why even in the other major sports, each team will try to play one another at least once for the sake of trying to even out competition, but will still play their regional rivals more.

In ending, your original argument is crap. If you make the playoffs and win out, youre the champion. Nuff Said. Makes sense to me.

Using European sports to compare your argument is pretty weak along with several other points except for the last one. No denying it; 16-0 or 9-7 the Giants are SB Champs and Eli gets all the credit. To the victor goes the spoils.

 

[LetsGoPats36]

The worst play Brady made wasn't necessarily the interception he threw to Gronk, but simply the decision to not tuck the ball and run.

The Tom of old when we were winning SBs would have pulled that in and ran for 3-7 yards. That was first down, IIRC.

He's definitely developed the gun slinger mentality, with all the faith in the world in his arm. Sometimes this thinking leads to great results but I'd rather have him play it safe. Pick up the yardage and continue to attack. Risk not worth the reward. Even if Gronk is healthy thats a tough throw to make. Brady under threw it and Gronk slowed down in the middle of the route.

Just a terrible decision trying to make that throw. I'm sure they'll all learn from it.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Using European system is not weak. Because the big reason they dont use playoffs is because teams play even schedules. Which essentially makes the regular season the playoffs.

Learn to comprehend everything I wrote up.

No, maybe you should learn to be a little more articulate in your thoughts and cure yourself of that "diarrhea"....and yes, your "Euro" comparison sucks, among others.

 

[fair catch fryar]

How about you actually make valid arguments against what I said. Simply saying it "sucks" is a garbage way to debate your viewpoint. Please quote my points and make counter arguments. Until then, what I said kinda stands tall.

As a football fan you should be able to easily see what I am getting at here. Especially with what goes on in the NCAA. Many people cant stand that computers pick out who competes for bowl games and national championships. And its for the reasons I stated.

A subjective opinion on strength of schedule determining whos champion is pretty lame, hence playoffs are the best way to settle things. Season records dont tell the whole story when people dont have the same opponent. So all the champs need to face off, and the champion of champions is the true King.

Again with another NONcomparison with the BCS. I don't want to get into my reasons because I don't need or want to. Simply by comparing a European Soccer championship to the rigors of the NFL is just plain dumb. I'm not arguing with you about the quality of the NYG SB Championshipship, I agree with you. Eli and the Gints 'hoed' a tough road to win this Super Bowl and deserve all the accolades.

 

[aabtec]

Luckiest QB in the NFL for two of the last 5 seasons. He's good, but you don't win two Super Bowls with a relatively mediocre team unless you're damn lucky.

Sorry but I have to disagree. The Giants are not mediocre by any means. They play very and very well coached.

Coughlin is not BB in that he knows what he has in a team. He knows its personality. The Giants punch you in the mouth and dare you to do something about it.

The Giants coaches are better (by leaps and bounds) than the Pats coaches. The Pats are stuck in the pass now, pass later and lets pass again era. They have forgotten about the running game since 2004.

The Pats OL is so one dimensional it is a joke. They can pass block OK. They are not an elite OL at all. An elite OL can run block and pass block.

At this point in time I wonder if the Pats are just running out the last years of Brady in order to keep fans in the stands. I know that the waiting list for season tickets is way, way down.

Eli is a great QB. He is. He is put in positions to win. Eli has a running game and an OC that gets that football is more than a track meet.

The Pats have gotten really lazy relying on Brady to save their bacon. Eli will win these battles all day long as he is surrounded by a better team and better coaches.

 

[NovaGiant]

Wow! the original post in this thread was beautifully written I must say and well put considering that you are a Patriots Fan and would normally not have an objective look at Eli. This is what i have to say, and basically what it boils down to. Whether or not Eli is "Elite" will never be settled. He will never get the respect that he deserves due to all the factors that you have stated but I think it was very clear in the SB that He ultimately does not care. Only fans will argue about this until we explode, but in the end it means absolutely nothing. Eli plays the game like he's asked and does what needs to be done to win. What more is he required to do? Sure, there are other QBs with these great big numbers and stats that look pretty which make the Elite conversation something to debate, but what does that matter if you don't win when it counts? Like Your coach said "Stats are for Losers the final score is for winners" and that is basically Eli and the Giants in a nut shell. Eli haters will find any reason, and I mean any reason to diminish all that he's accomplished up to this point. Everything from his Interceptions, his regular season win loss record to giving credit to everything and anyone but Eli in any given game. So as a fan I want to defend him but that argument will never be won. He will continue to add to his growing stellar resume, then it'll just be some other reason. Its Just like when you guys get upset when anyone tries to take away anything Brady has done. Its Fan Fodder and nothing more. Eli is Elite according the very definition of the word and for a Giants fan what else could we want. So Where as you Pats fans (actually most everyone other than Giant Fans) might find comfort in degrading Eli's accomplishments, Giants Fans, for this year, and I'm sure Many more years, will take Comfort in having a QB who will win the Big Games when it Matters most. Actually THAT is more important in ANY scenario, not just football.

 

[Zoie]

Im gonna have fun tearing apart your post because I cannot stand when people cry about regular season records. YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO IN ORDER TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

Let me ask you. Do you know WHY playoffs exist in North American popular sports but not in, lets say, some European popular sports? Like soccer for instance. In America we have divisions in the MLS. No European Leagues do this.

Heres why:

Because in Europe countries are much smaller, so do to less travel time, and close proximity to opponents, teams can easily play every other team in the league at least once. This way you don’t crown a champion and then have people crying about the strength of schedules being different, like in NCAA football for example.

“In the U.S. and Canada, the vast distances and consequent burdens on cross-country travel have led to regional groupings of teams, usually called divisions. Generally, during the regular season, teams play more games against opponents that are within their own grouping than those outside it. Since every team has not necessarily had a chance to prove itself against every other team, a playoff is necessary every season. Any team that wins its grouping is eligible to participate in the playoffs.”Playoffs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is also done to create rivalries thereby increasing fan interest. Also since the NFL is only a 16 game season, you cannot possibly have teams play the same strength of schedule without playing everyone else. Win your division, you get into the playoffs….the Giants did that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moving on,

the Giants played in a damn competitive division this year and most years. The Redskins are usually the only team in the NFC east that never does much. In the last decade, part of why the Patriots have had such good records is because their division is less competitive. Bills and Dolphins aren’t much to sneeze at, despite the dolphins making the playoffs a few years back. And the Jets….well…besides the two years prior to this season, they have been mediocre at best.

If this 2007 and 2011 playoffs and regular season games against the Giants have showed us anything, its that the Patriots would have a tough time in the NFC East. At least imo.

Now because the strength of schedules are not equal, which is because we are forced to use divisions due to only having 16 game seasons and travel issues, playoffs are necessary in crowning a true champion. So, as said before, if you win your group you make the post season and anything goes.

No need to cry about regular season records. In our pro sports with playoffs, no matter how you draw it up, sometimes teams will make it with less than stellar regular season records. The only way around this is to have an even strength of schedule, and this is not possible in a sport that plays less number of games than the number of teams in the league. And its tougher to do in a country that’s very large and spans 4 different time zones. This is why even in the other major sports, each team will try to play one another at least once for the sake of trying to even out competition, but will still play their regional rivals more.

In ending, your original argument is crap. If you make the playoffs and win out, youre the champion. Nuff Said. Makes sense to me.

P.S. - https://p.twimg.com/Ak8DxPgCQAA5A3O.jpg

Your post is complete garbage.

Talking about European sports when the discussion is about an American sport...

Nice try...

Your division is competitive year after year?

What are the records for the teams in your division again?

 

[makoute]

So all that craziness you were talking about how the Pats were going to easily win this game was just you trying to convince yourself.

 

[VrabelJr]

Good write. TB is different QB since that 2006 AFCCG in Indy. But then again, he's had mediocrity in terms of players surrounding him,, and that falls saquarely on BB.

It can also mean those BB Defensive schemes that worked in early part of the decade no longer work in today's NFL anymore by him attempting to fill with stop gap players.


What has truly killed the Pats last 6 yrs comes down to
1. No real DL threat to put fear in other QB's
2. The secondary drafting and development has been worse than WR

Was it really necessary to quote his entire ******* post when you're the first person to reply to the thread?

 

[PatriotSeven]

So all that craziness you were talking about how the Pats were going to easily win this game was just you trying to convince yourself.

I don't think it's crazy at all and we should have. But it was also heavily dependent on the Patriots being the same Patriots they were all season, which also included a very effective Gronk, who was our #1 weapon all season long. Everything we have to judge teams is based on what they have done in the past, and that's the best anyone can do.

No one in their right mind should ever really expect the unexpected to happen. You're cautious of it, but that doesn't mean you should be undecided and not take a stand. The numbers even predicted a close upset by the Giants, if they were to win the turnover battle. But it was still not expected. Well it turns out, the unexpected did happen, and they won the turnover battle once again and in a big way, with a safety.

So yea it re-iterates that there's no rule that teams don't or can't execute differently the following week. There's no rule that says that can't happen. However, just because you turn out wrong, it doesn't mean it was the wrong decision or evaluation. If I had to do it all over again, I'd still see it exactly the same way. If they were to play again this coming Sunday, I would still pick the Patriots to win, and still say a blowout is very likely.

And the truth is, it's 2012 time, and looking forward, I still see us as the better team with the better chances to get there again. I don't see the Champs getting back on top. based on how things stand right now. I could be wrong once again, but I'm not going to go against better common sense just because an upset happens every once in awhile. Even if it is the Super Bowl. It's just another game.

 

[the Patriot]

I'm sorry, Eli is a great QB, but I don't see him as Elite or on par with Brady, P. Manning, Rodgers, or Brees.

Giants defense let Eli hold the ball for 14 more minutes than Tom Brady. That's almost an ENTIRE quarter of scoring opportunities and Eli only scored 2 more points.

DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS

 

[PatriotSeven]

I'm sorry, Eli is a great QB, but I don't see him as Elite or on par with Brady, P. Manning, Rodgers, or Brees.

Giants defense let Eli hold the ball for 14 more minutes than Tom Brady. That's almost an ENTIRE quarter of scoring opportunities and Eli only scored 2 more points.

DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS

No their defense only scored 2. Their offense scored 19. And it wasn't their defense that "let" Eli hold the ball. It was their offense, our offense's early mistake, and our defense that let them win time of possession but mainly their offense's ability to manage the clock and chew it. However, that's been the case all year for us. We don't play clock management for our offense. It's not how we play football. We want our defense on the field more and our offense to score fast. Our offense just failed to score even an average amount of points.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Your post is complete garbage.

Talking about European sports when the discussion is about an American sport...

Nice try...

Your division is competitive year after year?

What are the records for the teams in your division again?

This guy drinks way too much coffee and/or spends way too much time watching "all sports" European.

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

Eli IS better than TB in clutch situations. Everyone outside of New England will agree.

 

[Fair_Catch]

Eli IS better than TB in clutch situations. Everyone outside of New England will agree.

I dunno. Tom does have 3 super bowls...and has had great seasons. Hes just been less playoff clutch since his last super bowl. Thats all.

Who knows how clutch Eli will be in the future.

Your post is complete garbage.

Talking about European sports when the discussion is about an American sport...

Nice try...

Your division is competitive year after year?

What are the records for the teams in your division again?

I dont see why you guys cannot understand the point that was made.

All that was said was that divisions exist due to the USA being large. This has nothing to do with the sport played, but the time zones spanned, and travel hassles. In which case you cannot have even schedule, or round robin formats. Because of this, no one should harp on someones regular season schedule because everyone has a different strength of schedule anyways, so playoffs are necessary to find a true champion. Not a hard concept to follow.

Plus the Giants beat a number 1 AFC seed in the regular season and the Super Bowl. They beat a number 1 NFC team at home and a number 2 NFC seed at home in the playoffs. Not to mention winning a competitive division that went down to three teams in the last 2 weeks of the season. Not to mention playing a very tough regular season. If thats not proof of a worthy NFL champ, I dunno what is.

Also, if you check out the division records comparing teams of the NFC East vs the AFC East at football reference for the last ten or so years. All of the NFC East teams actually compete with one another. Running away with the division, or having large gaps between all the teams is rare. The Pats usually stomp on the AFC East though, so there is less competition in that division.

With how the Patriots have performed in the playoffs since Bradys last SB win, and with how they have performed against the Giants in the last 4 years, its not far fetched to think the Pats would have a harder time in the NFC East than they do in their current division.

 

[The Brandon Five]

With how the Patriots have performed in the playoffs since Bradys last SB win, and with how they have performed against the Giants in the last 4 years, its not far fetched to think the pats would have a tough time in the NFC East.

No need to speculate. We went 3-1 against the NFC East this year. Our other two losses were to an AFC East team and and AFC North team.

 

[Fair_Catch]

No need to speculate. We went 3-1 against the NFC East this year. Our other two losses were to an AFC East team and and AFC North team.

Thats 1 year. I stated that you should look at how much competition existed in each division over the last ten or so years.

Btw, you were 3 -2 vs the NFC East. SB loss, dont forget.

 

[Tunescribe]

Sometimes, whether true or not, keeping quiet is often perceived as weakness or confirmation of the criticism out there, especially when things don't go as planned. And I think regardless of the subtle strategy Bill chooses to employ for himself in order to be remembered(which might work better for coaches) there's little chance the majority of the "classy" NFL fanatics that discuss QB's on a daily basis and watch ESPN will ever take the time to understand this game in order to appreciate what it is him or Tom Brady are doing. Sometimes you have to speak their language, or end up getting drowned out by the larger, not so classy voice of the NFL and its fan base along with all of the rightfully earned accomplishments.

Your point is understandable, but my question is exactly WHO do BB/Brady respond publicly to and WHEN. At a press conference? I think they're wise to tune out the noise for the sake of retaining sanity. The only important thing in all this is their own self-understanding and not what everyone else might think. No matter how or when they would address such matters you can be sure it'll be twisted into something else beckoning further response, etc., etc. It's just best not to go there and let history determine the rest.