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Coming to peace with Eli.

Discussion in 'Visiting Locker Room' started by PatriotSeven, Feb 6, 2012.

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  1. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven In the Starting Line-Up

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    I really didn't want to face the 9-7 Giants in the Super Bowl this year. I was afraid of this. But not of a Super Bowl loss, but rather what the loss to the Patriots would mean to both men. Brady's going to catch some flak for this, and a lot of the criticism will be unsubstantiated as always is the case in the NFL. His shiny resume and armor with another dent in it. That's ok because thankfully this armor was built tough and with real metal, forged by his own fire, will and sweat, hard work and many hours he's put in his quest to become an expert of the game of football. It can handle dents. I'm sure we're also going to hear a lot of talk about Eli Manning being a better clutch, 4th quarter quarterback. Pats fans, your worst fears have come true. So let me explain how I see it, and then decide how you want to deal with all of this. For one let's just say debating is now finally back full force and fewer people will likely "give us" the benefit of the doubt as easily as we have grown accustomed to getting for so long.

    But as annoying as some of those may be to have to hear, all that aside, my bigger beef with all of this was that people are generally easy to influence and uninformed when it comes to football. Despite the fact quarterbacks never face each other, and in reality must each face their opponent's defense, which are mostly different and rarely the same, the media and general public still treat quarterbacks as if they play head-to-head, in a boxing match. One versus the other. In reality, it's just completely not true. But that is how it's viewed by the majority and perception is often 90% reality.

    On top of his actual accomplishments, Tom Brady carries a certain image that he has rightfully earned throughout his career. Tom seems to have been a victim of this boxing-like, head-to-head comparison more so than any other quarterback I have watched play the game or remember talked about in recent history. Perhaps because in the new decade he's the first guy to really come close to the levels only a few great quarterbacks have achieved and the media's more involved than ever in football. Not to mention all the new information technology such as the internet bringing it all together and football's popularity growing 10 fold. Because of this, it turns out, that just about any QB that beats the Patriots defense and is part of the winning team is automatically seen as "besting Tom Brady", not just in that game, but in all of what it means to be Tom Brady. Often a false statement when it comes to how football works, but once again, perception is 90% reality.

    What you could easily see coming is that because of this misconception, any quarterback that has, would have, and will continue to beat the Patriots, especially on a stage as great as the Super Bowl will have his resume and his image inflated 10 fold because he's also "beating Tom Brady". While each player's actual accomplishments may take a back seat because of the way we view it all.

    Because of this I desperately wanted it to have been someone that easily convinces he deserved such an inflation in perception by proving he earned it year after year, week after week, and day after day. Having his own set of accomplishments and credentials, rightfully earned. By proving that he is a great quarterback outside of just being able to beat Tom Brady's defense, even if it is in a Super Bowl. By doing what Tom Brady did to reach this stage, and what every other great NFL quarterback had to do.

    But looking back on Eli Manning's career, I must say, there may not be a more fitting person. He hasn't had it too easy either, in the NFL. He's always been in his brother's shadow. He likely could have won 2 Super Bowls, and it's quite possible that he would have still not gotten the credit he deserves for what he has accomplished because of his own image problems that he's had to fight throughout his career and coming into this league. After all, Eli is one of the biggest top draft pick underdogs ever, just like Tom Brady is likely the greatest underdog ever to have achieved what he has. Eli may have just as well been the 199th pick too. Sure he is a Manning, and and he was picked first, but everyone perceived it that he didn't deserve it. As if he only got here because of his name when in reality he would never measure up not just to his brother, but to his family's name and even as an NFL quarterback. And while most top pick QB's do end up as busts, we have to admit, Eli Manning is the very example of what a 1st overall draft pick should do in the NFL. This is what organizations expect from them.

    Eli Manning is a great quarterback, and has been for some time, not just in the 4th quarter, but also happens to have a pretty mean deep ball and has consistently over the years been putting up big air passing numbers and great efficiency in this important category, a stat which is rarely even kept track of publicly. Part of that is mainly because of what Tom Brady's done to the perception of the quarterback, and what is expected of one, as Montana did back in his days. Out of the quarterbacks who are still asked to play in a traditional manner, Eli's one of the best in the league. And yet he never got the respect he deserved. He's never basked in the spotlight. He's never cared to nor given the opportunity to hog the news. After all these years, and even after winning his Super Bowl in 2007, Eli has constantly had to deal with his share of disrespect, despite his great accomplishments, maybe even more than Tom Brady himself.

    So, as much as it hurt to watch us lose and as much as it's going to annoy me to hear some of the upcoming criticism of Tom, perhaps this wasn't such a terrible thing to have happened. And if someone was to get an extra benefit to his resume and as a boost to his image overall, because of "beating Tom Brady", there may not be a better suited quarterback and person for that, that deserved it more than Eli Manning. Maybe all it really does is bring Eli's perception and his image where it should have been in the first place.

    Congratulations Eli. Yes, you are elite. This time you added an exclamation mark. And I'm glad you said it. Because frankly, you didn't do it out of arrogance and didn't come across this way even when you said it at the beginning of the season. But to stand up for yourself and claim the respect the NFL and the rest of us should have given you a long time ago. And perhaps even your family. It is time you are finally taken seriously. And most importantly you backed that up.

    And now maybe Tom needs to take a lesson from Eli. And maybe Bill needs to also understand that the time has come where Tom must also stand up and defend himself. Even Joe Montana, the classiest of class, did this same thing this year, by taking a "knock" at Tom mainly as a result of all the comparisons that may have come before due time from the media. Keeping quiet and hoping that people will catch on, while no doubt a respectful and classy strategy, may not always be the smartest idea when the majority of the people who judge you hardly understand the game, the stats or what they're really looking at and the NFL. Especially when they are fueled by the media, the ones who rarely have your best interest at heart, but rather their own ratings.

    Sometimes, whether true or not, keeping quiet is often perceived as weakness or confirmation of the criticism out there, especially when things don't go as planned. And I think regardless of the subtle strategy Bill chooses to employ for himself in order to be remembered(which might work better for coaches) there's little chance the majority of the "classy" NFL fanatics that discuss QB's on a daily basis and watch ESPN will ever take the time to understand this game in order to appreciate what it is him or Tom Brady are doing. Sometimes you have to speak their language, or end up getting drowned out by the larger, not so classy voice of the NFL and its fan base along with all of the rightfully earned accomplishments.

    So maybe Tom, like Eli, needs to stand up and say "I am elite", and then prove it once again as he has so often done year after year, because when he says "I suck" most people who don't know any better, and doesn't understand his classy qualities, might just take him seriously.

    Just my two cents.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  2. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Good write. TB is different QB since that 2006 AFCCG in Indy. But then again, he's had mediocrity in terms of players surrounding him,, and that falls saquarely on BB.

    It can also mean those BB Defensive schemes that worked in early part of the decade no longer work in today's NFL anymore by him attempting to fill with stop gap players.


    What has truly killed the Pats last 6 yrs comes down to
    1. No real DL threat to put fear in other QB's
    2. The secondary drafting and development has been worse than WR
     
  3. Zoie

    Zoie Rookie

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    I'm sorry, but I don't see Eli as "elite" and probably never will. I also can't believe there is talk that he should be a First Ballot HOF. I just don't see it even with 2 Super Bowl rings.

    I also could care less what Joe Montana or any other quarterback says about Tom. I don't need validation about Tom from other people. His accomplishments give enough validation.

    I also don't think Tom needs to defend himself against criticism. Trying to be objective it looks like it's just long-term hatred and jealousy. People have hated the Patriots for whatever reason for years. You can't change their opinions. He was a 6th Round draft pick who won 3 Superbowl by his late 20s. He is a First Ballot HOF. He has a millions in the bank, well-traveled, Supermodel wife, etc. He lives a very enviable lifestyle.

    Joe Montana's commentary reminded me of Red Auerbach's bitterness and trying to marginalize Phil Jackson when he headed into the 2004 NBA Finals with the Lakers which if they won would have put him over Red in terms of NBA Finals victories. The Lakers lost, but Phil did surpass Red with his last 2 NBA Finals rings.

    I believe in my heart that Tom will win another Superbowl, and the haters can keep hating.
     
  4. oldskool138

    oldskool138 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #75 Jersey

    Please don't copy the ENTIRE original post if you're going to respond. Thanks.
     
  5. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Luckiest QB in the NFL for two of the last 5 seasons. He's good, but you don't win two Super Bowls with a relatively mediocre team unless you're damn lucky.
     
  6. hellolin

    hellolin On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    I agree, our team besides Brady is just too mediocre, I was really thinking maybe Tony Romo would have beat us today with what the giant's have on weapon wise, we just don't have much to offer other than Brady, Branch is not the MVP he used to be, David Patten and Givens was more cluth than Welker and Hernandez today. We did have a playmaker on O, but he is clearly not 100% even if he said he was today. After this loss, I think there are two person in the NFL are just personly Patriots killers, one is Pollard, another one of course is Eli....
     
  7. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    Without debating Eli's QB abiliyty I wont have much respect for someone who fudged the draft system and got to play where he wanted. All the brady vs eli comparisons this week..no one brought this up...one guy demanded where he wanted to be drafted and another just wanted to be drafted. I cant forgive the mannings for that crap .Just a personal opinion.
     
  8. bigblue420

    bigblue420 Banned

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    You would think after he snaps your undefeated season, snaps your 18 game home winning streak, snaps a 20 game winning streak and a 10 game winning streak you would at least offer up something with even the slightest bit of credit, but alas. I will let you vent whatever way you see fit, good game, good luck next season.
     
  9. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven In the Starting Line-Up

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    But he is. And you wanna know why? Because he beat us twice in two Super Bowls. And both times he beat us when he had the worse defense, as was clearly evident again this Super Bowl.

    While I would not give any other quarterback this type of credit based on these two games, in Eli's case I think people can safely use it at will and it was the main point of the write-up.

    Only by him doing something like this, would he ever make people like you who disrespect him....shut up. He needed this just to be taken seriously. I am not angry if this argument is used, because it's used for him. A guy who really needed to do something greater than just winning a Super Bowl to get credit. A guy who really needed to beat the Patriots and Tom Brady in a Super Bowl, to finally earn his spot.

    And that's just not very fair to Eli, but he did it anyway. And for that, I am happy for him.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  10. thechris

    thechris Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    tl;dr

    p.s. **** ELI MANNING. **** HIM **** THAT PIECE OF ****
     
  11. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'll give Manning credit...he has mental toughness that his brother greatly lacks.

    A killer D helps too.
     
  12. Zoie

    Zoie Rookie

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    I was always neutral on the Mannings until the 2004 NFL Draft. Archie's shenanigans were publicized, then when Suzy Kolber confronts Archie on camera at the draft he tries to go "I don't want to take the focus away from Eli." "This should be about Eli."

    The Mannings were arrogant enough to believe they were justified, and couldn't believe they were being grilled and criticized.

    Archie inserted himself into something that was none of his business. Who was he to call San Diego, and tell them not to draft Eli?

    If someone can provide us with an extensive list of current and retired NFL players that were able to tell an organization not to draft them or got to choose which team they wanted to be drafted by...

    Zero personal responsibility for calling an organization, and telling them not to draft his son + Eli practically rolling his eyes and sucking his teeth as he answers the phone with San Diego on the line, and Chris Berman and the rest of the ESPN idiots saying "The Mannings have class for holding up the San Diego jersey, yada, yada, yada, etc." :rolleyes:

    There was some player I think a Washington Redskins player who was there doing an interview who called the Mannings out on the carpet for their actions.

    I didn't care for that family especially the stage daddy living vicariously through his sons after that debacle. I cheered when Mr. 9-10 in the playoffs threw that pick 6 in Superbowl 44, and effectively ended the greatest of all time talk...

    I'm so over the Mannings, and hate that the Pats didn't win because several birds could have been killed with one stone today-

    -Avenge 2007 AFC Championship loss
    -Avenge Superbowl 42 loss
    -Do all this in the elder Manning brother's house in which he will probably be forced out of to make way for Andrew Luck against the youngest Manning brother.
     
  13. hellolin

    hellolin On the Game Day Roster

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    I could always argue the "elite QB" question, but this, I have no arguement whatsoever, I think most giants fans agrees with it too!
     
  14. bigblue420

    bigblue420 Banned

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    A guy named John Elway did this.
     
  15. Zoie

    Zoie Rookie

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    When Eli has stats comparable to his brother Peyton in terms of passing, scoring, touchdowns, All-Pro and Pro-Bowl selections with 13-3/12-4 season records, then I will view him as "elite". That's how I measure quarterbacks.

    When I think of "elite" quarterbacks I think Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, etc.

    I feel Eli has benefited from the NYG defense more than anything else.
     
  16. Zoie

    Zoie Rookie

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    I already knew about Elway that's why I asked for an extensive list of current and retired NFL players who did that same thing.

    Oh what's that? No one can provide that list. Of course not. There are many players who realize that they're not above the game unlike the Mannings.
     
  17. patsderoer

    patsderoer On the Game Day Roster

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    This. Giants and Eli are the definition of pure luck. Muffed punts, Green Bay dropping passes, Brady overthrows a wide open Welker, every fumble falls in their hands, when the Patriots recover they have 12 men, sick stuff. Luck, luck, luck and more luck.
     
  18. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #24 Jersey

    Big Ben has two rings, is he a first ballot HOFer?
     
  19. bigblue420

    bigblue420 Banned

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    AH okay, so you want inflated stats in systems that don't even use RBs and Pro Bowls to evaluate QBs rather than clutch performing and SBs, gotcha.

    Ignorance is bliss. Good game Zoey
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  20. Zoie

    Zoie Rookie

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    It's Zoie...:rolleyes:

    I love how you attempted to negate my reasoning for why I don't consider him an "elite" quarterback when that is what is usually the standard for judging quarterbacks.

    Anyone with at least 2 rings is an "elite" quarterback. :rolleyes: I don't think so. I follow the motto- "Defense wins championships. Offense wins games."

    9-7 doesn't do it for me. That's one game above .500. If Eli is "elite", then 9-7 illustrates what exactly?

    That's all I'm going to say on the matter. I don't consider Eli an "elite" quarterback. Nothing will change my mind. He is someone rides the coattails of his defense, and plays decent enough not to blow it. However, that does not make one "elite".
     
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