WRs: Every team but one

[Deus Irae]

Truth be told Cooks is a SOFT player. And that's one of the reasons he's no longer here. At the very least he should have fought for that ball. The refs let them play in the playoffs and it comes down to toughness and grit. His soft azz got knocked out of the tourney the year before too. You can have him.

But the original point was the Rams were loaded with 'shiny' receivers with 'shiny' stats during the regular season. Then in the biggest game because of good tough defense and the refs letting them play they do nothing.

Your point is not a point, though. And that's the point.

I'll leave it at one question for you. When was the last time a top 2 receiver won a Championship? That's my only question for you.

It's a meaningless question. Who's to determine the ranking of the WRs? Why are you ignoring the first elephant in the room, which is that the only NFL position with a remotely plausible direct causation position is QB? Why are you ignoring the second elephant in the room, which is that the Brady/Belichick Patriots have skewed the WR argument all out of whack?

The reality is that, even during the Brady/BB era, high level and top level WRs have been found on team after team after team in the SB, on both the winning and losing sides.

 

[Redman443]

It will be an upgrade if we let hogan walk and take hunter Renfrow it he’s available. Same size as hogan who is a solid pass catcher and will last longer than 5 years.

 

[Patjew]

Goff didn't surprise me, but I didn't expect it out of Tintin.

That’s true. Watching all of the highlight videos now (which I do weekly) it’s amazing to see how happy he seemed just to be there.

I can see these guys doing very well in the future but it’s clear they weren’t mentally ready for it this time around.

 

[zoostation]

Your point is not a point, though. And that's the point.



It's a meaningless question. Who's to determine the ranking of the WRs? Why are you ignoring the first elephant in the room, which is that the only NFL position with a remotely plausible direct causation position is QB? Why are you ignoring the second elephant in the room, which is that the Brady/Belichick Patriots have skewed the WR argument all out of whack?

The reality is that, even during the Brady/BB era, high level and top level WRs have been found on team after team after team in the SB, on both the winning and losing sides.

You answer my question by asking 2 completely unrelated questions?? After I ask you to answer the 1 question and not spin it around to suite your agenda. The whole board is on to your game......if you don't believe that just read back in this thread a couple of pages. The only meaningless questions are your unrelated elephant questions. If you quote my response and say "I have no case" be prepared to answer my followup.

 

[Ivan]

Truth be told Cooks is a SOFT player. And that's one of the reasons he's no longer here. At the very least he should have fought for that ball. The refs let them play in the playoffs and it comes down to toughness and grit. His soft azz got knocked out of the tourney the year before too. You can have him.

But the original point was the Rams were loaded with 'shiny' receivers with 'shiny' stats during the regular season. Then in the biggest game because of good tough defense and the refs letting them play they do nothing.

I'll leave it at one question for you. When was the last time a top 2 receiver won a Championship? That's my only question for you.

Do you mean top 2 league, or top two team? Because the first is really narrow, and the 2nd went a long way to the Patriots win in the Super Bowl.

Basically I don’t disagree with you that a marquise receiver usually doesn’t win championships. But they shouldn’t be blamed for it given that they are at the end of the chain.

I loved the Cook’s trade to NE, but I agree with the position that he is really soft, and limited as a route runner. If you are going to try to play that game, two routes, then you better be as tough as Steve Smith, otherwise you will fail.

 

[miloofcroton]

This is a super strong WR class, filled with talent of every variety. I'd be shocked if the Pats didn't find any targets among them.

 

[miloofcroton]

Truth be told Cooks is a SOFT player. And that's one of the reasons he's no longer here. At the very least he should have fought for that ball. The refs let them play in the playoffs and it comes down to toughness and grit. His soft azz got knocked out of the tourney the year before too. You can have him.

But the original point was the Rams were loaded with 'shiny' receivers with 'shiny' stats during the regular season. Then in the biggest game because of good tough defense and the refs letting them play they do nothing.

I'll leave it at one question for you. When was the last time a top 2 receiver won a Championship? That's my only question for you.

Of all the positions, WR is arguably the worst when it comes to statistical analysis. I hate how people get into this mindset of ranking players according to gross statistics, as if there was a clear line between better/worse players.

Like any position, value to the team is what matters, not some abstract 'among the top x number of receivers in the league'.

 

[Redman443]

Of all the positions, WR is arguably the worst when it comes to statistical analysis. I hate how people get into this mindset of ranking players according to gross statistics, as if there was a clear line between better/worse players.

Like any position, value to the team is what matters, not some abstract 'among the top x number of receivers in the league'.

DK Metcalf is a once in a lifetime player for whoever does land him.

 

[miloofcroton]

DK Metcalf is a once in a lifetime player for whoever does land him.

I agree. Reminds me of some mix of Calvin Johnson and Brandon Marshall. I don't think the Pats should go for him, but he should do well in the right situation.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

DK Metcalf is a once in a lifetime player for whoever does land him.

Did you see his 3 cone time? (I'll let myself out)

 

[miloofcroton]

Did you see his 3 cone time? (I'll let myself out)

You're joking, but I really wouldn't worry about it. People think real life is like Madden, and it's not.

 

[Deus Irae]

You answer my question by asking 2 completely unrelated questions?? After I ask you to answer the 1 question and not spin it around to suite your agenda. The whole board is on to your game......if you don't believe that just read back in this thread a couple of pages. The only meaningless questions are your unrelated elephant questions. If you quote my response and say "I have no case" be prepared to answer my followup.

What the hell are you talking about? Here was your question:

I'll leave it at one question for you. When was the last time a top 2 receiver won a Championship? That's my only question for you.

And here was the first part of my follow up post, which was a direct response to that question:

It's a meaningless question. Who's to determine the ranking of the WRs?

So, if anyone is playing a game here, it's you. First you limit your question to a theoretical "top 2 receiver", which is ridiculously limiting to start with, then you fail to provide the means of rating the receivers, which prevents me from being able to answer your already ridiculous question.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

You're joking, but I really wouldn't worry about it. People think real life is like Madden, and it's not.

Bill likes 3 cone drill times. It's FACT. Spare me the Madden BS. I have a family, and life. Don't play it.

 

[zoostation]

What the hell are you talking about? Here was your question:



And here was the first part of my follow up post, which was a direct response to that question:



So, if anyone is playing a game here, it's you. First you limit your question to a theoretical "top 2 receiver", which is ridiculously limiting to start with, then you fail to provide the means of rating the receivers, which prevents me from being able to answer your already ridiculous question.

Still haven't answered my question......... It's really not that difficult.

 

[Hyped]

For those underrating the value of having an elite outside receiver in this offense....

I just have to say one name: Randy Moss

End of discussion.

 

[BTTA]

Perhaps the greatest myth on Patsfans board is that the Steelers have some kind of magic sauce for drafting WR's. This is complemented by the idea that high draft picks used on WR's are part of the answer.

Could we please have this post as a stickey?

I did this work earlier but I'll re-publish it here.

Steelers WR from Draft since 2009

18- Washington 2nd- Incomplete. Not a great start but its early
17- JuJu- A+
16-Ayers - 7th rounder. Did nothing. Out of football
15- Coates- D- 3rd rd. Had one 20 catch year. Career in trouble. No longer with the team
14- Archer 3rd rd, Bryant 4th. Archer did nothing Bryant was talented but a moron. Both no longer with the team
13- Wheton 3rd, Justin Brown 6th- Weaton was a WR4. Did ok. Brown did nothing. Both no longer with team
12-Clemons 7th- Did nothing. Out of football.
11- No one
10- Emmanuel Sanders 3rd, AB, 6th. A+, A+

So 11 picks. 3 A+s, 8 duds.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Perhaps the greatest myth on Patsfans board is that the Steelers have some kind of magic sauce for drafting WR's. This is complemented by the idea that high draft picks used on WR's are part of the answer.

Could we please have this post as a stickey?

PREACH!!! Brother betterthanthealternative! Hallelujah!

 

[Deus Irae]

Just within the Brady era (2001-present), here are some high end WRs who've been to the SB. Some won. Some lost. All made it.

• 2001: Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt
• 2002: Keyshawn Johnson, Keenan McCardell, Jerry Rice, Tim Brown
• 2003: Steve Smith
• 2004: Terrell Owens
• 2005: Hines Ward
• 2006: Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne
• 2007: Randy Moss
• 2008: Hines Ward, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald
• 2009: Reggie Wayne
• 2010: Greg Jennings, Hines Ward (Note: This Steelers team also had Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown, but they weren't high end players yet)
• 2011: None (Highest level would have been the likes of Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz)
• 2012: Anquan Boldin
• 2013: Demaryius Thomas
• 2014: None
• 2015: Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders
• 2016: Julio Jones
• 2017: Alshon Jeffery (Borderline, and one I might well not include if I thought more about it)
  
• 2018: None (Highest level would have been the likes of Brandin Cooks and Robert Woods)

Note: The above list doesn't include the likes of Santonio Holmes, Amani Toomer, Marques Colston or Plaxico Burress, among others, who were quality receivers in their primes but IMO not up to the level of those listed. The list also doesn't include Wes Welker, who was almost exclusively working out of the slot, or TEs who were mostly used as big WRs, such as Shannon Sharpe and Greg Olseon. Lastly, Julian Edelman was left off in the interest of not having the question of his worthiness derail the main point, which is that high end WRs do, indeed, help teams get to, and win, the SB.

 

[Deus Irae]

Still haven't answered my question......... It's really not that difficult.

It's unanswerable, as I've already pointed out twice (now a 3rd time), because you've provided no metric to determine who is a top 2 receiver.

 

[50-yard-line]

For those underrating the value of having an elite outside receiver in this offense....

I just have to say one name: Randy Moss

End of discussion.

There is no Randy Moss in the NFL at this time, not Julio Jones, not AB, not OBJ, not Mike Evans. Last closest thing we had was Calvin Johnson.

Moss was the greatest WR I ever watched. Rice has the stronger resume, but Moss, singularly was...wow.