Content Post Words on things I watched, read & heard II

[patsfanfromoversea]

Is there an nfl team out there with a slower group of receivers than us?

Our WR according to a sheet which got posted here recently are one of the best when it comes to separation via quickness in the first meters ( I believe this was the point I am not sure I remember totally correctly)
What we could use is another outside WR who can stretch the field. As BGC mentioned we have plenty of MOF Slot options with Bourne Meyers Smith Henry but not really those outside threats.

 

[masterbouncer]

Our WR according to a sheet which got posted here recently are one of the best when it comes to separation via quickness in the first meters ( I believe this was the point I am not sure I remember totally correctly)
What we could use is another outside WR who can stretch the field. As BGC mentioned we have plenty of MOF Slot options with Bourne Meyers Smith Henry but not really those outside threats.

well might need to go to Harry more often on the outside with jump balls where he is really good at and Mac has the accuracy and ball placement to throw to him where only Harry can catch it, just need to call his numbers more often rather than only using him as run blocker, might be that we will see more of it in the PO if the Pats get there because I still think the playbook is quite narrowed still for Mac

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

well might need to go to Harry more often on the outside with jump balls where he is really good at and Mac has the accuracy and ball placement to throw to him where only Harry can catch it, just need to call his numbers more often rather than only using him as run blocker, might be that we will see more of it in the PO if the Pats get there because I still think the playbook is quite narrowed still for Mac

I wonder why we are not doing this. It’s his third year and there haven’t been much jump balls so far. Maybe someone can explain why I have no idea

 

[captain stone]

Is there an nfl team out there with a slower group of receivers than us?

Detroit, Jax…? Not too many that’s for sure…

This is the problem when a team has #4/5/6-caliber WRs posing as #1/2/3s…

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Hi @BaconGrundleCandy - thanks for the thread. I watched Fields tonight because you wrote highly of him. I am not a talent evaluator, and don't see what you see, but maybe I am missing something. What I see is a guy who struggles if he has to progress to his second read, really struggles to fit the ball in tight spaces, and takes off running too early. I will agree with you that the running is not too bad because his eyes stay downfield, but his accuracy drops while moving unlike Mahomes, Wilson and others. His throws are sporadic, a great throw followed by a dud.

Maybe Fields settles down with time, but guys that struggle with their 2nd and 3rd reads seem to not improve greatly in my experience. Full disclosure, I am not excited by the running QBs and do not think they are the future. Too many injuries in my opinion lead to uneven results over the season. Wilson has a ring, Mahomes has a ring, but can they keep it up?

I noticed Rodgers and Brady seem to have a clock in their heads, and move forward but under control. Mac's clock is a little slow but he has begun to move which I find very encouraging. Fields, by contrast, takes off running as opposed to shifting and moving. Fields sometimes runs toward the sideline looking to throw but even then it looks like a busted play because Fields only looks at a small portion of the field.

Fields looks a lot more like a young Cam Newton to me then Rodgers, Mahomes or Wilson.

I hated Mac's throw across his body back against the grain on Sunday, but it was impressive that Mac was scanning the whole field and found a guy for a completion. IMO, Fields never makes that read, and I mean NEVER.

What did you see watching the Bears?

I'm not worried about him going through his progressions or reads. He did plenty of that in college where his team did him no favors. OSU had WR reading coverage well after their release to the top of their route which again didn't exactly make it easy.

He's shown glimpses in the NFL and Chicago might be one of the worst run offenses in the league. No identity or direction game to game or just in general. I mean they 160lb WR's lead blocking for a TE. I think their starting 3 WR's average weight was 160-170lb last night. Look around the league and you just don't see guys less than 190lb putting up real #'s for the most part. Honestly think of that and then ask a rookie QB to succeed behind a bad OL. No rhythm in the running game at all! Not even close.

Not many vets would succeed under those conditions so it's not logical to think Fields would shine. To that point why is Nagy even on the sidelines? He's had years to prove he's capable and has been awful lol.

Offensively they need a real coach. You draft a QB that high you owe it to yourself and the franchise to pull out all the stops. Stabilize and upgrade OL, that's priority#. Get real targets. They're bottom of the league in separation and getting open. And again they have ST players playing WR. Get that running game going. Think about how much we depend on it offensively and how much it helps Mac.

Chicago is a mess. I'm going to wait a little while longer before making real judgements.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I'm going to wait a little while longer before making real judgements.

BGC Translation: my evals are turrible (Barkley voice) and I have no independent thoughts that are right, so I'm going to wait for real football experts to opine, or hope Fields plays better, and then jump in parroting other people with retweets. I hope everyone forgets my crappy opinions about how I think Fields and Lance were the best and how bad I think Mac Jones was.

Carry on

 

[Fuzz]

…
He's shown glimpses in the NFL and Chicago might be one of the worst run offenses in the league. No identity or direction game to game or just in general. I mean they 160lb WR's lead blocking for a TE. I think their starting 3 WR's average weight was 160-170lb last night. Look around the league and you just don't see guys less than 190lb putting up real #'s for the most part. Honestly think of that and then ask a rookie QB to succeed behind a bad OL. No rhythm in the running game at all! Not even close.
…

Herbert broke rookie records last year, and Mills is doing ok this year, with worse OLs and run games than Fields is working with. Fields was put into a better situation than most rookie qbs drafted early. The Bears original pick was #20. Most starting rookie qbs play on bottom 10 teams.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Herbert broke rookie records last year, and Mills is doing ok this year, with worse OLs and run games than Fields is working with.

How many QB's come in and do what Herbert did and break records? He would win OROY this year if he played. Far from the norm in terms of rookie QB's and exploded past most everyone's expectations.

Mills has a higher comp% and Fields has a few more sacks but besides that both are comparable and no one is far and away better. Advanced stats are similar. TD/INT almost the same.

I was probably the only guy talking up Mills last year or 1 of 2. I like him a lot and think he'd be putting up similar #'s all around to Mac if he were here.

With respect I'm not getting your point? Yes, Herbert was excellent. Mills and Fields are performing similar?

Maybe you could elaborate here?

Fields was put into a better situation than most rookie qbs drafted early. The Bears original pick was #20. Most starting rookie qbs play on bottom 10 teams.

I understand what you're trying to say but would anyone call the Bears a decent team rn? Bottom 10 OL, targets and what's Nagy done to give anyone reaaon to believe he can have a consistently good offense?

Again maybe you could elaborate bc there's no question here. Just kind of pointing out the obvious.

 

[Fuzz]

How many QB's come in and do what Herbert did and break records? He would win OROY this year if he played. Far from the norm in terms of rookie QB's and exploded past most everyone's expectations.

Mills has a higher comp% and Fields has a few more sacks but besides that both are comparable and no one is far and away better. Advanced stats are similar. TD/INT almost the same.

I was probably the only guy talking up Mills last year or 1 of 2. I like him a lot and think he'd be putting up similar #'s all around to Mac if he were here.

With respect I'm not getting your point? Yes, Herbert was excellent. Mills and Fields are performing similar?

Maybe you could elaborate here?

I understand what you're trying to say but would anyone call the Bears a decent team rn? Bottom 10 OL, targets and what's Nagy done to give anyone reaaon to believe he can have a consistently good offense?

Again maybe you could elaborate bc there's no question here. Just kind of pointing out the obvious.

My point is that Fields was put in a better position to succeed than most starting rookie qbs, yet has performed really poorly compared to expectations. He has the fifth worst QBR of any rookie qb (9+ games) ever recorded.

Gabbert, Clausen and Rosen, oh my! Chicago Bears QB Justin Fields in dubious company amid rough rookie season

Historically speaking, Justin Fields' numbers this season don't bode well for his future, but there's time to change course.

www.espn.in

I don’t want to get into a back and forth with you, because I have seen how that goes in other threads. I’ll just say I respect your insight as a poster and leave it there.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I don’t want to get into a back and forth with you, because I have seen how that goes in other threads

Because BaconGrundleCandy will flip out like a 4 year old. What a dork. Good move, ignore the headache or months of cyber stalking because BGC is a total psycho.

.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Does somebody have an overview which defense coverages/ fronts we use at which percentage this season ? That would be nice to see I could not find it thanks

Also the personal stuff should not happen in this thread it is one of the most informative threads

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I know this is late but I've been busy. And a few of the issues we saw last week tie into some things I've been talking about for a minute. Went through the game again which is painful on A22. Does anyone else watch and have the same issues? Is it this bad every time for everyone?

Anyway a few offensive thoughts ...

Before the year my predictions for Mac were 4200 /27/13, top 25 ANY/A, 65% or very close to that, off the top of my head. TD and comp% might be off a hair but those were my expectations considering the prospect, landing spot and talent around him. He's on pace to hit or pass all of these so I'm very happy in that regard. He's basically an average NFL QB as a rookie which is great news.

He's also been very good at putting the bad behind him. Whether it's a series, a bad pass, INT or w/e the case. He's quick to forget, move on and come out firing again. That's a key trait to play any big-time sport or contest. We saw this last game and it's very encouraging to see. QB's, goalies, pitchers are on a different stage no matter what offensive linemen, center-fielders and left-wings say. Mac has shown the ability to come back from the bad and stay steady. In college and I'm sure the pros he's cussed himself out on the sidelines and smiling a minute later talking guys up. Some players hang onto stuff, sometimes games later or longer and never forget. You can't win with panic or someone who doubts themselves. Mac has plenty of confidence but more importantly it's not easily shaken.

A lot has been made of his "arm talent" and too many people focus on the "fastball" when talking or thinking about it imo. It's actually a big plus for Mac on the whole but he's obviously lacking natural velocity. His touch and accuracy have stood out to me. Touch is the ability to throw a "change up" or "fastball" within the same series or consecutive passes. Just like a pitcher you need different speeds, ability to feather or layer a ball into coverage. This is actually something I've always said about Mac. Most only focus on the strength and velocity which are very important. It helps dictate which part of the field you're targeting, the type of play - how many steps etc .. It's important but not everything and easily improved upon and Mac has like 4/5 of big ones you need concerning "arm talent" so again he's got plenty of that. And this year he's shown off nice accuracy (general area), touch (change up - fastball, ability to layer it) and placement (more specific and exact than accuracy)

The passes to Meyers and Henry really stood out in that department last game. Beautiful 40 yard pass to Meyers down the sideline on 3rd down, right in Meyers lap. Would have dropped right in front of him. Next play was the blocked punt. Near INT to Smith deep middle immediately followed up by a nice touch pass to Henry. As far as "arm talent" is concerned his accuracy touch and placement have all translated very well and he's shown he can move on from bad plays and sequences all year. You can't work with someone who's consistently upset or mad at what happened a few plays beforehand.

Mac mentioned practice that week but truthfully I'm not sure I noticed a huge difference from past weeks. Like you expect a little more coming out a bye but the offense has been up & down all year.

I mentioned several times this year, we need to be faster as a group, as a collective. We have to be finishing each other's sentences so to speak. We've seen a lot of one foot forward, two steps back all year. Whether it's injuries or penalties, delay of game, INT we've had our fair share in-game setbacks. Blocked punt. Can't keep coming back from that stuff. Especially in a tight game all around from possession to points. We definitely didn't and don't look like a machine after 10 + weeks ...

First possession - a few nice plays canceled out by a few bad ones. Strike to Meyers, nice scramble and then a few flags and a sack. I've said this a bunch but QB's always have unaccounted for yards they can take a few times a game. A defense can't cover every blade of grass for an entire game. I'd love to see us take advantage of this once or twice a game. Nothing crazy even 5-8 yards here and there make it much more difficult for a defense. Same with the bootleg stuff. Don't get crazy but it's something extra for the defense to account for.

The sack is what it is but you can't make it worse and he's done so a little too much this year. Mac has taken some awful sacks this year and lost yards reflects that. This was something I mentioned pre draft a bunch. Some have a tough time understanding you can be good and bad in the same area, in the same thing but anyone that's played or close to sports understands this. Mac can move and manipulate a pocket when he sees it coming, especially manipulated pressure from the first level but when pressure is coming directly at him in close quarters - behind the los, he loses it at times. 99% of QB's are taken a L when they fade in the pocket, OL'm hate that more than anything. Nothing worse than protecting a QB 8-12 yards deep. Never turn your back on the defense though. It's never a good idea. Mac has a bad habit of this at times, it's not always there but he has to learn to just eat it. Sometimes you're toast and you don't want to make a 7 yard loss a 15 yard loss. The OL has been an issue a good part of the year, no doubt but the extra stuff - fading, turning your back, getting vertical up field isn't making it better.

Second possession - sweet ball to Meyers and I believe the blocked punt was next or a play or two after.

Third possession - PA under pressure small comp to Smith. Then Agholor down sideline and then a loss bc of of poor blocking. I'd like to see us feed Smith a little more if we're thin at WR Any comes coming up. Maybe a few more slot reps, split him out along with typical motion, screen etc. He's had a rough go the first few months but hasn't complained and gives 100% effort. It would nice to get him going.

Fourth possession - nice pass to Bourne for a 1st down. Deep MOF near INT to Smith. Next is a nice touch pass to Henry (near INT comes right back with a big play).
Next is the first INT but I'll talk about both here bc there's layers to it. First off hell of a play by Leonard who's having an unbelievable year. Scheme and design are great but some of the biggest plays are made by players making it happen themselves (peeling off, snap jumping, sometimes you have to take a gamble). Great play by DL though. That said Mac has to know he's not the only one reading and scanning the field and understand he has eyes reading him as well.
He opens up left to Harry most likely looking off before coming to the MOF. He might have seen DL moving laterally, hips and chest moving to one side so it's understandable if that's the case but Leonard was watching him. I think he could of had a completion if he got rid of it immediately but that ball has to come out hot. Especially if you're going there bc again I wouldn't assume Harry was a legit target there in terms of actually getting the ball. Just my opinion there bc of the lack of targets going his way.
Anyway both INT were the result of learning what's open and how quickly space can be closed in on. And players are watching you even if you might not see them or in your line of sight, they're watching. This is simple trial and error with NFL closing speed and spacing. These types of plays will become a lot easier once he develops a little more zip on his passes. Bolden could have helped Mac a little more by coming back to the ball but Mac could have been better on both plays even though Leonard made a great play himself. As did Okereke

Sixth - we a miss opportunity with Agholor on 1st down. Flag. Dart to Agholor which ends up short. 4th & 1 instead of sneaking we do what now? I know this has been brought up but some decisions or lack thereof at the los at times have hurt us. Those plays need to be tighter all the way around and even though one thing is called we can check into another.

Seventh was a really good one for Jones. Couple of nice passes to Henry and Agholor. Big hit by DL. Dangerous pass to Smith. Then we have the "no, no, yes!" play when Jones throws across his body to Henry. Gets just enough it and Henry does a nice job of boxing his man at the very end. Another dangerous play but it worked out. Nice job stepping up by Jones. Throwing on the run, in rhythm to Henry. Not the easiest play but we needed it.

Eighth almost throw away into multiple defenders. Harry incomplete. 3rd & down / blitz Mac finds Bolden hot. I don't think Cousins is a bad comp for Mac, especially if you think Matt Ryan is a good comp - Cousins comes about favorably looking at advanced stats. Anyway comparisons aren't meant to be exact down to every detail, some lose sight of that but I'll say this about Cousins and Mac. Mac is already better at handling the blitz than Kirk. I like Cousins, he's a good QB and good QB's are hard to find. Anyway this is something Mac handles better than Cousins and a few other vets. Mac has had trouble with second level stuff but he's better at diagnosing and handling it than Kirk imo. Weird flea flicker. This is where throwing off-platform comes in very handy. Mac couldn't really step into it and drive on the ball bc of the timing. Again the natural velocity isn't there yet but that's ok. Poor execution that's not all on Mac. We would of had Harry wide open. Bang-bang type play I wonder if Mac could have stepped up a little more there but who knows. Then Harry MOF. Meyers on 4th. Reverse to Bourne. Incomplete to Meyers. Another killer false start / flag, this offense has been shakey all year at the line - getting set / false start, guys not ready in wrong spots, clock running down. Then we kick a FG instead of going for it. I get the thinking there, we had some time on the clock but we really needed those points. Not criticizing just think we might need to go for inside the 5-10 in games like that in the 4th quarter.

Ninth Jones hits Bourne for 20 deep MOF. Throw away. Short completion bringing up 3rd. Matching penalties. 40+ chunk to Harry. Mac's able to get set, gets a little bounce in his step to get in rhythm. Nice route by Harry. Starts with an inside stem on his route to really open up space in MOF. Nice job of timing and bringing it in by Harry.

Give him a few more targets if we're light at WR. He's been blocking and showing tremendous effort. Like Smith showing up to play each week. It would be great to see. Two incompletions. Mac with a bullet to Henry. Not just a bullet with some sauce on the pass. Mac led Henry and put it in a great spot for the TE. He passed it away from Leonard and the defender who was coming in behind Henry from the opposite direction. Very good placement and a good example of leading your target open.


Tenth we have Meyers, Bolden and Harry who gets lit up. Then 3 incompletions to close it out.

....

Few things I've been harping on that stand out after rewatching the game. One more target at WR. Either slot or outside but a true slot is the more pressing need.

We need a legit water bug slot option for a few reasons. We've seen a ton a of big collisions in the MOF. Some of that is football but also it's bc routes take time to develop and defenders are teeing up on our crossers / drags etc It would be nice to have a quick target for option routes - quick plays where we can release the ball quickly and play off leverage and coverage a little more. Our offense does things the hard way sometimes. And things aren't easy in general in the NFL so why not make things as simple and as easy as possible for ourselves.

Also teams are starting to clog the MOF on us. Mac and Mills were the two best MOF passers coming out last year and it's translated really well so far for both. Having someone like Cobb, Beasley, Edleman would make life so much easier on Mac. And a lot more difficult on defenses with more short-area quickness on the field. Something we're lacking. We have plenty of good route runners in Bourne, Meyers, Henry, Agholor it would be clutch to find an Amendola. Deebo Samuel was my fav target for the Pats a few years ago at WR. Someone like that is invaluable nowadays bc you can line him up anywhere! Tough for a defense to put a CB1 on him bc he'll be in the backfield, slot, motion so much and he's as tough as they come. We need us a Deebo. Or a real physical threat that can win outside.

Now we might not have that guy on the roster today but I believe we might have a suitable replacement in a pinch. I'd love to see Stevenson used more in the passing or even Bolden. Specifically lined up in the slot, taking on those option routes, juke routes in the MOF. Both of those have a little juice, a little shake to their steps. I'd like to see the volume turned up there. Most here didn't understand that Bolden was White's replacement early in the year but I'd like to see both roles expanded just a little bit.

Next up defense ...

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

A Few defensive thoughts ...

Next is the IDL. Along with the above I've been banging the drum for some help this off-season here. Either an upgrade opposite Judon but the more pressing issue is the interior imo. It's clear to me we need reinforcements inside. Hopefully Perk is up to the challenge next year but we might be looking to add to the outside as well.

On early/base downs were playing a lot of our Okie front a "head up" look where you have 5T 0 5T (5T are outside eye or outside shoulder almost head up) leaving G unblocked so LB have to take 'em. 5T will go inside / outside depending on the play.

Mixed in with some 3T 0 3T (3T shaded outside eye or outside shoulder guard) & 4i 0 4i (4i shaded inside eye or inside shoulder of tackles) or "tite" which NFL borrowed from colleges. Again you'll see variations mixed in but we've been playing a lot of the 505 as a base in early downs.

The problem is twofold imo. Teams that can really bully you in the ground game and are efficient running duo (two double teams) and inside - mid zone can just double or prioritize our 0 or 1 and a 5T. And we're not getting off blocks or up field. We're getting washed out the play. We've actually used Wise inside to try to get vertical upfield with little success.

We're fine against smaller offensive lines or one that might not have as much chemistry or frankly talent up front but have had problems against some of the more top tier lines. Bills, Atlanta, Jete, Carolina but teams that have an identity have been more of a problem. Not breaking news you'll have more trouble with better more established lines but those are the teams you'll have to face to get where we want to go and we still need to figure out a plan up front. Again we've adjusted a little in terms of alignment (shifting from 5T to 4i) and personnel (Wise and Davis) but we're not getting the results we want upfront.

Another issue is how you want to defend the run, right? Take from coverage, sacrifice up front. You have guys like Fangio and Staley using a lot of tite or Mint in Sabanese and give up a gap and half. Sacrifice a little pass rush, put a shell over the top and rotate Saf down in the box. Essentially giving up the +1 and trying to stop the run while combating early passing downs.

However you're approaching it, it's clear we need to beat doubles if we're going to keep up with this and no matter the front or alignment we need an upgrade at IDL/NT spot. God and Guy have been inconsistent tbh. Both contribute and have good sequences, neither has been bad all year but it inconsistent. And going forward we really need to think about investing in those positions (versatile 5T that can rush / stop the run) or another Warren type along with a legit NT. Jordan Davis, Travis Jones or someone in the 4th / 5th round but really plays the part. Right now we have 3 bodies doing serviceables job but we need another big time talent up front.


TLDR:
We need a real slot to make things easier on Mac. Alleviate some pressure from MOF. Take advantage of matchups from different positions. This is the one thing that would help our offense the most imo from a "targets" pov.

We're handling smaller OL's that don't have an identity or real chemistry - Atlanta, Jete, Bills, Carolina but losing the physical battle to better ones. Personnel / Alignment needs tweaking if we're going to continue this way. Specifically 5T and 0/1.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

A Few defensive thoughts ...

Next is the IDL. Along with the above I've been banging the drum for some help this off-season here. Either an upgrade opposite Judon but the more pressing issue is the interior imo. It's clear to me we need reinforcements inside. Hopefully Perk is up to the challenge next year but we might be looking to add to the outside as well.

On early/base downs were playing a lot of our Okie front a "head up" look where you have 5T 0 5T (5T are outside eye or outside shoulder almost head up) leaving G unblocked so LB have to take 'em. 5T will go inside / outside depending on the play.

Mixed in with some 3T 0 3T (3T shaded outside eye or outside shoulder guard) & 4i 0 4i (4i shaded inside eye or inside shoulder of tackles) or "tite" which NFL borrowed from colleges. Again you'll see variations mixed in but we've been playing a lot of the 505 as a base in early downs.

The problem is twofold imo. Teams that can really bully you in the ground game and are efficient running duo (two double teams) and inside - mid zone can just double or prioritize our 0 or 1 and a 5T. And we're not getting off blocks or up field. We're getting washed out the play. We've actually used Wise inside to try to get vertical upfield with little success.

We're fine against smaller offensive lines or one that might not have as much chemistry or frankly talent up front but have had problems against some of the more top tier lines. Bills, Atlanta, Jete, Carolina but teams that have an identity have been more of a problem. Not breaking news you'll have more trouble with better more established lines but those are the teams you'll have to face to get where we want to go and we still need to figure out a plan up front. Again we've adjusted a little in terms of alignment (shifting from 5T to 4i) and personnel (Wise and Davis) but we're not getting the results we want upfront.

Another issue is how you want to defend the run, right? Take from coverage, sacrifice up front. You have guys like Fangio and Staley using a lot of tite or Mint in Sabanese and give up a gap and half. Sacrifice a little pass rush, put a shell over the top and rotate Saf down in the box. Essentially giving up the +1 and trying to stop the run while combating early passing downs.

However you're approaching it, it's clear we need to beat doubles if we're going to keep up with this and no matter the front or alignment we need an upgrade at IDL/NT spot. God and Guy have been inconsistent tbh. Both contribute and have good sequences, neither has been bad all year but it inconsistent. And going forward we really need to think about investing in those positions (versatile 5T that can rush / stop the run) or another Warren type along with a legit NT. Jordan Davis, Travis Jones or someone in the 4th / 5th round but really plays the part. Right now we have 3 bodies doing serviceables job but we need another big time talent up front.


TLDR:
We need a real slot to make things easier on Mac. Alleviate some pressure from MOF. Take advantage of matchups from different positions. This is the one thing that would help our offense the most imo from a "targets" pov.

We're handling smaller OL's that don't have an identity or real chemistry - Atlanta, Jete, Bills, Carolina but losing the physical battle to better ones. Personnel / Alignment needs tweaking if we're going to continue this way. Specifically 5T and 0/1.

I agree with most of your takes but would add two things.

In my opinion we have in theory plenty of MOF options. Henry/Smith/Meyers and Bourne.
As outside Options we have Agholor and Bourne. We need another speedy wideout. We need to open the MOF more bc teams are stacking it since we can't really attack them deep.
For the defense I would add next to a true NT and a better 5 T we need a true ILB. Today has really shown why.
HT and Bentley are no 3 down LB, they are way too slow for the modern NFL most parts. We can have one of this type at ILB but not two of those big LB. We need someone who can cover but also brings some closing speed and sideline sideline range for our run defense.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I agree with most of your takes but would add two things.

In my opinion we have in theory plenty of MOF options. Henry/Smith/Meyers and Bourne.
As outside Options we have Agholor and Bourne. We need another speedy wideout. We need to open the MOF more bc teams are stacking it since we can't really attack them deep.

Not sure we're far off here. This is exactly what I'm asking for above unless you're specifically talking about an outside option. Sure we have plenty of MOF options but also guys with repetitive skill to an extent. Agholor, Bourne and Meyers can all line up inside/outside. We need a water bug with superior short area quickness. For instance when those guys are working the MOF it takes time to develop. Leads to a lot of collisions as we've seen.

I think we need to add to the WR corp but think we need to look in Deebo, Kupp, Beasley type rather than a true outside threat but I wouldn't complain either way.

For the defense I would add next to a true NT and a better 5 T we need a true ILB. Today has really shown why.
HT and Bentley are no 3 down LB, they are way too slow for the modern NFL most parts. We can have one of this type at ILB but not two of those big LB. We need someone who can cover but also brings some closing speed and sideline sideline range for our run defense.

I'm curious what Bill thinks of a guy like Davis who's at the top of his class at his position. Not the most versatile guy but adding to a Barmore is the overall package you're looking at there. Idk I always want to wait on those guys unless they're freaks but again if we're going to keep playing okie/505 we need someone to beat and eat up doubles consistently. As well as another 5T.

Definitely agree about the ILB. Guys like Sam Williams and Beavers. We could get lucky with Perk and Mcgrone.

That's what I'm looking at though.

Is it worth it to get a guy like Davis in the first? We need another 5T and ILB, hopefully Mcgrone. Offense is pretty solid if we keep the group together. They obviously haven't really gelled but there's a decent foundation.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Not sure we're far off here. This is exactly what I'm asking for above unless you're specifically talking about an outside option. Sure we have plenty of MOF options but also guys with repetitive skill to an extent. Agholor, Bourne and Meyers can all line up inside/outside. We need a water bug with superior short area quickness. For instance when those guys are working the MOF it takes time to develop. Leads to a lot of collisions as we've seen.

I think we need to add to the WR corp but think we need to look in Deebo, Kupp, Beasley type rather than a true outside threat but I wouldn't complain either way.

Yeah I would be happy with any addition to help mac succeed as well, don’t really care if it’s an outside or inside guy. Overall I guess a MOF is where Mac feels most confident, so this might be best suited for him right now,
Today has been a weird game again , I believe the TE had like 3/4 targets where Smith did not get a single one if I remember right, that is really hard to understand when your outside WR is Harry who really looked complete effortless, this would really piss me off as a coach

I'm curious what Bill thinks of a guy like Davis who's at the top of his class at his position. Not the most versatile guy but adding to a Barmore is the overall package you're looking at there. Idk I always want to wait on those guys unless they're freaks but again if we're going to keep playing okie/505 we need someone to beat and eat up doubles consistently. As well as another 5T.

Davis would help our run defense a lot, he could play the 0/1 T and we could move God to 3 or 4 and Barmore as a 4/5 from if we keep this formation. But anyway it does not matter what formation we play Davis would be helpful. I am kind of disappointed in Carl Davis, as I think God and Barmore play solid but it is hard to really see what the issue is upfront in our run defense. Probably a combination of LB and D-Line play. The only issue I see here is that Davis could really well be gone when we pick in the second and i would not draft him too 20-25. I always need to think of the Dexter Lawrence pick, i am sure the GM would like to re do this pick actually the whole first rd.
I pushed for Wolfe as a 5 T here last off-season I think a similar type of player would be nice here for our run defense.

Definitely agree about the ILB. Guys like Sam Williams and Beavers. We could get lucky with Perk and Mcgrone.

That's what I'm looking at though.

Is it worth it to get a guy like Davis in the first? We need another 5T and ILB, hopefully Mcgrone. Offense is pretty solid if we keep the group together. They obviously haven't really gelled but there's a decent foundation.

I hope McGrone can push our ILB group next season je looked athletic in Michigan, crazy that we got him in the fifth, but I would not mind a Loyd/Dean pick either since I believe HT and Bentley can be upgraded and the ILB position is really important here. If Perkins get to learn another position i would not mind the pursuit of a guy like enagbare to complement Judon. Today and last games we did not have a real consistent edge rusher, idk if uche snap count will increase again.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Yeah I would be happy with any addition to help mac succeed as well, don’t really care if it’s an outside or inside guy. Overall I guess a MOF is where Mac feels most confident, so this might be best suited for him right now,
Today has been a weird game again , I believe the TE had like 3/4 targets where Smith did not get a single one if I remember right, that is really hard to understand when your outside WR is Harry who really looked complete effortless, this would really piss me off as a coach

Yea I think teams will continue to try to clog the MOF. That's an area of the field Mac really excels targeting. It only makes sense. Maybe not a first round pick or first priority FA but this offense needs to hit another gear in the passing game.

One guy I've been watching closely for years is Zay Flowers from BC. Super fast, kills tackling angles. Very elusive, quick - shifty, can make you miss. Can make several defenders miss. Can win on screens, MOF, deep.

I think he'll really help a team and can probably be had around round 3. I really lile him though as a solid WR3.

Davis would help our run defense a lot, he could play the 0/1 T and we could move God to 3 or 4 and Barmore as a 4/5 from if we keep this formation. But anyway it does not matter what formation we play Davis would be helpful. I am kind of disappointed in Carl Davis, as I think God and Barmore play solid but it is hard to really see what the issue is upfront in our run defense. Probably a combination of LB and D-Line play. The only issue I see here is that Davis could really well be gone when we pick in the second and i would not draft him too 20-25. I always need to think of the Dexter Lawrence pick, i am sure the GM would like to re do this pick actually the whole first rd.
I pushed for Wolfe as a 5 T here last off-season I think a similar type of player would be nice here for our run defense.

I hope McGrone can push our ILB group next season je looked athletic in Michigan, crazy that we got him in the fifth, but I would not mind a Loyd/Dean pick either since I believe HT and Bentley can be upgraded and the ILB position is really important here. If Perkins get to learn another position i would not mind the pursuit of a guy like enagbare to complement Judon. Today and last games we did not have a real consistent edge rusher, idk if uche snap count will increase again.

Today might have been Judon's worst game in a long time. Not just here.

Stacked LB class, really sweet class. There's a ton of DB's that are our type. A lot of day 2 & 3 prospects. It's a great defensive class. I'd love to see us take advantage of it.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Yea I think teams will continue to try to clog the MOF. That's an area of the field Mac really excels targeting. It only makes sense. Maybe not a first round pick or first priority FA but this offense needs to hit another gear in the passing game.

One guy I've been watching closely for years is Zay Flowers from BC. Super fast, kills tackling angles. Very elusive, quick - shifty, can make you miss. Can make several defenders miss. Can win on screens, MOF, deep.

I think he'll really help a team and can probably be had around round 3. I really lile him though as a solid WR3.

Flowers has announced he’s staying in school, so he’ll be on the 2023 list.
WR Zay Flowers To Return in 2022 - Sports Illustrated Boston College Eagles News, Analysis and More

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Flowers has announced he’s staying in school, so he’ll be on the 2023 list.
WR Zay Flowers To Return in 2022 - Sports Illustrated Boston College Eagles News, Analysis and More

Ugh just missed it a few days ago. I liked him for that specific role here. We'll see how things shake out. Thanks for update.

 

[Kontradiction]

Ugh just missed it a few days ago. I liked him for that specific role here. We'll see how things shake out. Thanks for update.

What do you think about Smoke Monday in the 4th if Devin retires in the offseason?