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Will the real fans please stand up

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Who is saying have "blind faith" I am the one who started and I am not have "blind"faith but i am having faith that something things will happen
 
Who is saying have "blind faith" I am the one who started and I am not have "blind"faith but i am having faith that something things will happen

That's not what this thread was about at all, and you damn well know it. This thread was just a way to beat your chest and roar "we believe in the Pats. If you disagree then get the **** off the bandwagon brah!!". Tell me, what sort of vegetables do you eat in order to ensure that your sh!t doesn't stink?
 
Kontra, you are saying Boldin is worth $8M a year?

PS: The "objective" non-homer thought Cassel should have been (and was going to be) cut.

You mentioned giving the benefit of the doubt with regards to Peppers, but giving the benefit of the doubt doesn't apply to when you agree with the decision. Giving the benefit of the doubt means to acknowledge that there likely is a good reason even though it doesn't look like the right move in your eyes.

The self-proclaimed objective posters like yourself don't like when we give the benefit of the doubt to BB or trust in a proven system. But considering how little information any of us have, it doesn't follow that your "objective" analysis is better than trusting the objective analysis of proven people.

Like I said before, it's fine to be disappointment in the Boldin move and discuss the surface points of it and what it seems like we could have had. I never have a problem with things like that. It's when people start demanding that no matter what not getting Boldin was the wrong move. Also when people start accusing the FO of not improving the team because they missed out on a certain move on day one.

I will finish with this, the 2006 offseason had 3 times the need for WR than this one and we got nothing on day 1. Patience is a virtue.
 
That's not what this thread was about at all, and you damn well know it. This thread was just a way to beat your chest and roar "we believe in the Pats. If you disagree then get the **** off the bandwagon brah!!". Tell me, what sort of vegetables do you eat in order to ensure that your sh!t doesn't stink?

Yup, there's been a lot of that lately.
 
We should start having an anniversary date for this topic since it comes up every year:

"That Great Annual Real Fan Please Stand Up, Say Aye, Show Hands, Belch, Fart Thread"

Or maybe we could witch hunt those of dissension and contrast. Because, you know, there are so many non-fans that hang out at a Patriots forum just posing as fans.

Is there a smart fella around here who can write up the guidelines? And I mean a unanimously agreed smart fella....not one of the numerous self-appointed ones.
 
Kontra, you are saying Boldin is worth $8M a year?

Yes. Particularly with knowing Moss' thoughts on his future as a Patriot after this season I did feel he was worth $8M per year. Not only would he have instantly upgraded our receiving corps this season, but he would have provided a veteran stopgap for next season and thereafter until whomever we draft or make a move for in the coming years to be our "WR of the future" was ready. $8M per year, given how much the Patriots have to work with this offseason, would have been worth it.

PS: The "objective" non-homer thought Cassel should have been (and was going to be) cut.

Not sure why you're trying to throw a red herring into the argument, but that was not my stance. My stance was that Cassel did not look good in the preseason, but he was a better option at that point than an aged veteran or anybody else we could have gotten.

By the way, there's no particular belief system for an objective fan.

You mentioned giving the benefit of the doubt with regards to Peppers, but giving the benefit of the doubt doesn't apply to when you agree with the decision. Giving the benefit of the doubt means to acknowledge that there likely is a good reason even though it doesn't look like the right move in your eyes.

How you could possibly give the benefit of the doubt to the front office, particularly when the asking price was as fair as it was in regards to Boldin, is beyond me. The bottom line here is that Boldin was probably the best value that we could have gotten in free agency for what he can do. Now that he's in Baltimore, not only does he directly improve a team who is in direct competition with us for the AFC (as well as a team that blew us out at home in the Wild Card round of the playoffs) but losing out on him now leaves us with the following options: T.O., Bryant, and Mason. I can go ahead and guess that two of those guys probably aren't going to be looked at by us and the third could either come here or want to retire with the team that he's had a career renaissance with. Chances favor the latter if you ask me. We could, of course, go into the draft. However, as far as I know, there is only one guy that could possibly come in and be an IMMEDIATE impact on this team and he's a undersized speedster out of Notre Dame. And please don't try to point out Edelman. I love him as much as the next guy, and he did a bang up job this season, but he was far from an impact player for this offense when he was healthy.

But considering how little information any of us have, it doesn't follow that your "objective" analysis is better than trusting the objective analysis of proven people.

This is a fine example of an appeal to authority. Unfortunately, this front office is prone to mistakes as well. On top of that, they actually tried to make a play for Boldin which shows me that they originally disagreed with the people here who claim that Boldin would not have been a good fit/worth it because he's on the wrong side of 30, is injury prone, and plays with too much of a wreckless abandonment. The bottom line is that they let probably the best option go to a direct rival even though they saw what happened last season when teams double teamed Moss and Welker in the second half of games. Looking at how teams like New Orleans shut this offense down, I would say $8M a year is pretty worth it for a guy that still has a ton left in the tank.

Like I said before, it's fine to be disappointment in the Boldin move and discuss the surface points of it and what it seems like we could have had. I never have a problem with things like that. It's when people start demanding that no matter what not getting Boldin was the wrong move. Also when people start accusing the FO of not improving the team because they missed out on a certain move on day one.

Let me put it this way: if we sign a T.O., a Bryant, or a Mason, or anybody else that can present a viable third threat on the field to make teams have to take their attention off of Moss and Welker (when he gets back) then my concerns about the Boldin trade will be assuaged. As of right now, though, we missed out.

I will finish with this, the 2006 offseason had 3 times the need for WR than this one and we got nothing on day 1. Patience is a virtue.

It's funny that you mention the 2006 offseason in the same post in which you talk about giving the FO the benefit of the doubt. A lot of Pats fans gave the FO the benefit of the doubt about the WR position in that offseason. "Yeah, we've won three Super Bowls, the business model works, let's just let Branch go to a new team because we can replace his production with a number of guys". A lot of Pats fans were chirping that prior to 2006. Fast forward a couple of months and the Pats are starting off the season with Doug Gabriel, a complete unknown, and Reche Caldwell, a career #4 receiver, as their top two threats with an aging Troy Brown as the #3 WR. A couple of months after that and Gabriel was off the team and 2006 saw Brady left with a WR corps of Caldwell, Brown, and Gaffney. Those of us who gave the organization the benefit of the doubt back then were unpleasantly suprised with the results. Though, I guess you could consider it a blessing in disguise. The FO failing ever so badly to effectively replace Branch that season directly lead to the signings of Randy Moss and Wes Welker. Maybe missing out on the Boldin trade will produce 2007-esque results. Only time will tell...
 
In my opinion, NE needs to be active in going after at least one WR through free agency and trade and should have probably looked for a CB.
Other than Boldin and maybe Walters, whom would you have NE target? At what point does Boldin join Peppers in asking too much for you?

-- Baltimore traded a 2010 third and a 2010 fourth for Boldin and a 2010 5th, and extended his contract two years. Boldin gets $10M in guaranteed money, which amounts to this seasons salary and $7M in signing bonus. Baltimore gave up two higher picks in a deep draft and agreed to pay $10M for the right to test drive Boldin. If they like him they can keep him for $9M/year for two more years. If they don't like him they can cut him after the season and before a new CBA takes affect and it only cost them $7M and two draft picks.
-- NE asked Boldin to assume some of the risk (you say you can play in our system and are healthy, all you have to do is walk onto the field in game one and you get your $3M). NE treated Boldin like Randy Moss - why shouldn't they ask him to follow the precedent of a Hall of Fame receiver?
-- Baltimore said, here's two draft picks in a strong draft on paper, we'll get a later one back after the top prospects have gone off the board, and we'll pay you $10M to take all the risk. We're hedging our bet by giving ourselves an out if we want to cut you after the season.
-- Baltimore was desperate.
-- I would have liked him across from Moss, but for an extra $7M guaranteed dollars and two good mid-round picks this year, I'm not going to call NE cheap - Baltimore threw money at him, clearly NE wasn't going to win this anymore than they were with Peppers.

Sam Aiken at WR3 is a hole.
Sam Aiken was a band aid. Joey Galloway was a hole. People attack Sam as if he was some demonic force who came in to suck the life out of the team - the guy played pretty well for a receiver who probably didn't get as much route time with Tommy as the primaries. You already know I prefer to address this through the draft with at least two picks, the kids on the roster showed positively in their first year, the Free Agency pool was as shallow as it gets. BB elected to bring Chief back and give him a shot, not what I was expecting, but Caserio's remarks at the Combine made sense (especially with the way Free Agency was working this year) - I just can't get too excited over losing to Baltimore in the Boldin sweepstakes when the NE situation isn't as dire as their's.

RG should still be considered a hole because of Neal's inability to stay healthy for a 16 game season.
A hole? Connolly played as well as Hochstein has in years past for us, much better than Yates did, I never considered Hoch a "hole" behind Neal. If Billy was NE's primary interior reserve again I'd agree with you, but Wendell looked to outplay Connolly to my eyes, Ohrnberger and Bussey have had one year of conditioning and coaching (or will by April) and NE has Light, Mankins, Koppen, Kaczur, and Vollmer who all started a substantial number of games as rookies to justify waiting for the draft if they want to acquire additional competition for RG. Not a hole, merely a competitive and still uncertain position.

We have two holes at OLB because AD is likely gone and TBC should not be counted on in running downs.
Well, whether he's a run stuffer or not, TBC did close that window a bit from where it was. NE made an offer to Peppers. Burgess is reportedly still on the radar. Ninkovich was looking pretty good in a reserve role and is a year wiser. Woods has been tendered, perhaps he can bounce back and play the way he did in 2008, and Charlie Casserly is calling this an incredibly deep draft class (okay, there I shot myself in the foot ) - day "two," my worry meter is still pegged on zero.

We have a hole at CB (two if Bodden departs).
Bodden hasn't signed elsewhere yet has he? Then I'm not worried. NE has four young CBs on the roster, three of whom actually have some starting time, plus old Mr. Springs and his powered wheelchair, and Bill hired a veteran coach to come in and work with the youngsters and their young position coach -- sounds to me as if the expert with the inside knowledge doesn't see a "hole" as much as a young, inexperienced roster. CB doesn't rise to the level of my "hole" threshold.

As of right now, we have two holes at the TE position.
One reportedly was a black hole during the season, addition by subtraction works for me. Further, NE has gone away from TE as a primary receiving weapon - I wasn't putting much emphasis on it before and for now I'm willing to wait and see if Bill makes it an OL assignment or what he's planning.

There is a glaring hole at the DE position.
Not so much. I know Wright isn't everyone's final answer, but he's adequate, the draft is deep, Jarvis Green hasn't signed elsewhere yet, and it's day two.

There is a hole at the third down RB position (though, I expect that to be filled within the week).
Then not a worry.

Personally, I think it would be unfair to expect the NE management to fill all of these holes in the draft alone.
DE - draft is fine.
TE - what is Bill planning and can a rookie block? I'd say yes.
RG - draft or no it's not an issue (except for Capt. Downer so I know it's fine).
CB - Leigh isn't gone yet and Bill has all but stated the kids are alright, just a little coaching up.
OLB - I still see options before the draft, and I see plenty of options within the draft.
RB - you aren't worried, why should I be?
WR - Boldin wanted more, you say it wasn't too much, I say - it's Bill's job to manage risk, I'll take the draft and not miss a moment's sleep.

How does this, in any way, address the fact that this team shouldn't be expected to play at a high level with rookies filling in all of those spots in which I have just pointed out holes? Oh right... it doesn't.
Why shouldn't the team be expected to play at a high level with rookies? People on here do it all the time. Let's look at your holes and decide where a rookie is going to start.
DE? Not so much, and when they have they've been platooned with veterans which NE does have.
TE? Blockers don't need to be veterans.
RG? A rookie Dante hand picked will be just fine by me.
CB? Maybe, but he'll have plenty of competition and win it honestly.
OLB? No, Bill is going to platoon any rookies, they'll have their growing pains but we can find good ones in the draft with the tools to get it done.
RB? Start'em, not an issue.
WR? Edelperson did okay, Branch saw some action in his day, Tate even looked promising, I'm okay with rookies. Especially compared to the Free Agent pool!

Rookies don't scare me Kontra, entitled veterans do.
 
the question is...were you standing up when you wrote that thesis?...if not , you're obviously not a "real" fan but one of them "sitter downers"...and as we all know, there's nothing worse than a "sitter downer" Pats fan who posts cogent opinions on a Patriots message board.
 
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Yes. Particularly with knowing Moss' thoughts on his future as a Patriot after this season I did feel he was worth $8M per year. Not only would he have instantly upgraded our receiving corps this season, but he would have provided a veteran stopgap for next season and thereafter until whomever we draft or make a move for in the coming years to be our "WR of the future" was ready. $8M per year, given how much the Patriots have to work with this offseason, would have been worth it.

You don't know Moss' thoughts at all, you know a few sentences that came out of Moss' mouth to the media.

$8M a year for 4 years is not a "stopgap". I do not want Boldin taking up $8M as our #1 for 2011 through 2013. We can (and will) do better than that.

Honestly, BOX makes better points than I do regarding Boldin so I'll shutup.

Not sure why you're trying to throw a red herring into the argument, but that was not my stance. My stance was that Cassel did not look good in the preseason, but he was a better option at that point than an aged veteran or anybody else we could have gotten.

By the way, there's no particular belief system for an objective fan.

Did I ever claim what your stance was on Cassel? No, but you are defending more than yourself with your post here, you are lumping in all the so-called "objective" non-homers on the board. I don't know what the heck the "belief system" comment has to do with anything? Also a requirement to being "objective" is understanding that the people in charge know infinitely more than you or I. So debate with the facts that we have but also understand there are tons of facts we don't have. Something that the vast majority of self-proclaimed objective posters refuse to understand.



How you could possibly give the benefit of the doubt to the front office, particularly when the asking price was as fair as it was in regards to Boldin, is beyond me.

Which is why it is a joke that you claim to be "objective". The fact that you can't even accept that they know a whole lot more than us about evaluating a player and valuating a player's worth not only in general but with regards to the specifics of their system and all the other factors that they have to take into account. They also know far more about a guy like Tate's chances of helping or not helping etc... (Tate is one example please don't harp on it).

I'm not arguing the Boldin non-move was 100% guaranteed to be the right decision. I'm arguing that it is NOT homerish or outlandish to give the proven FO that made that decision the benefit of the doubt. Just because on the surface YOU don't like the move, doesn't mean it is factually a bad move. This is the major point that some of you continuously fail to grasp.

This is a fine example of an appeal to authority. Unfortunately, this front office is prone to mistakes as well.

What authority? What are you talking about? You have 0 credentials to be able to tell me definitively what mistakes they have made and why they were mistakes. Sorry, but your arrogance is mind boggling. You can't accept that you do NOT have more than a sprinkling of the facts and that is where the major problem lies. You seem to believe that everything on the surface is what it is. What if behind the scenes Patriots scouts had GOOD reason to believe that Boldin wouldn't be the same player in a couple of years. Or had GOOD reason to believe their risk evaluation for the next 4 years? Or a hole host of other things that we'll never so much as hear about. Sure it may LOOK like a bit of a miss right now, but the point is you are trying to argue definitively that you are right and the front office is wrong. Sorry but that's the same type of hubris that the media accuses BB of.

On top of that, they actually tried to make a play for Boldin which shows me that they originally disagreed with the people here who claim that Boldin would not have been a good fit/worth it because he's on the wrong side of 30, is injury prone, and plays with too much of a wreckless abandonment. The bottom line is that they let probably the best option go to a direct rival even though they saw what happened last season when teams double teamed Moss and Welker in the second half of games. Looking at how teams like New Orleans shut this offense down, I would say $8M a year is pretty worth it for a guy that still has a ton left in the tank.

Yeah, there's 0 difference between getting the guy for 1 year vs. getting the guy for 4 years at $8M a year. They made a move for him based on what they set his value at (which was for 2010, not 2011-2014).

Let me put it this way: if we sign a T.O., a Bryant, or a Mason, or anybody else that can present a viable third threat on the field to make teams have to take their attention off of Moss and Welker (when he gets back) then my concerns about the Boldin trade will be assuaged. As of right now, though, we missed out.

So you lack the ability to be patient and let things play out and rather just kvetch about it in the moment? I for on am extremely confident that they will upgrade the receiving corps by the time the first game is played. Boldin would have been nice (Moss/Boldin would have been real fun to watch in 2010) but I won't try to sit here and demand that the FO is wrong for not getting him. I defer to their proven success and my understanding that I do not have close to the amount of facts at my disposal as they do.


It's funny that you mention the 2006 offseason in the same post in which you talk about giving the FO the benefit of the doubt. A lot of Pats fans gave the FO the benefit of the doubt about the WR position in that offseason. "Yeah, we've won three Super Bowls, the business model works, let's just let Branch go to a new team because we can replace his production with a number of guys". A lot of Pats fans were chirping that prior to 2006. Fast forward a couple of months and the Pats are starting off the season with Doug Gabriel, a complete unknown, and Reche Caldwell, a career #4 receiver, as their top two threats with an aging Troy Brown as the #3 WR. A couple of months after that and Gabriel was off the team and 2006 saw Brady left with a WR corps of Caldwell, Brown, and Gaffney. Those of us who gave the organization the benefit of the doubt back then were unpleasantly suprised with the results. Though, I guess you could consider it a blessing in disguise. The FO failing ever so badly to effectively replace Branch that season directly lead to the signings of Randy Moss and Wes Welker. Maybe missing out on the Boldin trade will produce 2007-esque results. Only time will tell...

The 2006 offseason meaning the offseason following the 2006 season and prior to the 2007 season.

As for this comment, it is mostly ridiculous bull**** and a big lie:

A lot of Pats fans gave the FO the benefit of the doubt about the WR position in that offseason. "Yeah, we've won three Super Bowls, the business model works, let's just let Branch go to a new team because we can replace his production with a number of guys".

No one ever said that or insinuated that. Branch screwed the team that year and put them in a terrible position. At the same time, you do NOT decline a first round pick for a good but not great WR that is holding out. EVER.... did I mention EVER.

Not to mention in the 2006 playoffs we scored:

37, 24 and 34 points.
 
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Obviously.

The NFL has stated that their goal "is to create a system that will allow for growth in revenue and player compensation."

Who is saying that they are controversial??

That's not my suggestion.

The same way that they have been expanding revenues since the salary cap has been instituted.

There is a future for you in politics. Or coaching the Patriots. You seem to believe that the cap in 2011 will be larger than it was in 2009. And you don't disagree with me that the owners will want a greater piece of the pie. Those two points are diametrically opposed to each other (owners get more and players get more) unless there is a new and significant infusion of cash. At the worst time in a generation for expecting new and significant infusions of cash.

I won't venture a guess as to what you are thinking in this situation. I'll be honest, I don't know how both the owners and players end up winning in this situation. If you have an idea, please share since I'm interested in how this may turn out...as long as it has more detail than "the same way that they have been". Got that from your last post.
 
Part II

So, basically, you chose to forgo trying to make any sort of valid point in favor of taking a potshot at me?
Use of "obvious" isn't calling others oblivious?
-- It's NOT obvious that NE made the wrong decision in their negotiations with either Boldin or Peppers.
-- It's NOT obvious that NE is in trouble in anyway for the upcoming season.
-- It's NOT obvious that NYJ and MIA have improved their teams significantly with the trade for Cromartie or the money Dansby just collected.

It was a poor word choice which did not help your argument and your use of it was no less ad hominem than anything I wrote.

Are you honestly going to try to sit there and tell me with a straight face that Boldin's contract demands were in any way comparable with Peppers'? Seriously?
Let's see, Peppers has $42.5M guaranteed on a contract which may reach $91M, about 47% guaranteed. Boldin's guaranteed money is about 36%, but Baltimore also had to use two draft picks. I'd say they are closer then you seem to think.


The contract that Boldin got from Baltimore was great and I do not see why we couldn't have made that offer.
NE certainly could have made that same offer, and doubtless many here would have looked at Boldin coming in and ignored the money - but Bill can't do that. So let's look at what he might have been thinking about given he does have a budget to manage (even if we don't know what it is this year):

-- Randy Moss $6.4M plus under the CBA his "cap" would have been a shade over $11M which accounts for $4.75M in previously paid guaranteed money.
-- Boldin $10M for 2010, plus two draft picks.

That's a lot of money going to WR, more then is going to QB, more then is going to the OL, about equivalent to the D-line. Bill is on a budget, I'm sure you are too. If you have a Bugatti Veyron in the garage, do you buy a Ferrari Enzo for the next stall? Do you buy it as "new" if you have some concerns that the last owner rarely changed the oil, or rotated the tires, and loved to drive it on unpaved roads at top speed?

Now, if Boldin was coming off a season in which he blew out a knee or had some other SERIOUS injury, I could see why. However, to point out that Boldin has been nicked up in his career and use it to try to defend the complete lack of a move by the NE management to retain the best WR2 available is nothing but a gigantic copout.
You don't like the injury aspect of those who are arguing more understanding, you when I compared Peppers and Boldin in terms of the auction atmosphere. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't an art auction for the idol rich, it's a business with budgetary constraints and those aren't display works for the museum, but the equivalent of heavy construction equipment - maintenance and rental charges are very valid concerns.



Boldin was not "all about the money". But keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I feel better.


No, it isn't. This is all about bringing actual talent on the team in a position of dire need when the price is fair and when the team's #1 WR is most likely a goner next season based on his most recent interview. But keep grasping at those straws there, buddy.
Feels like I'm in a deck chair on a luxury liner instead of drowning in despair, but the difference between a one year rental at $3M/2011 3rd and a one year rental at $10M/two 2010 picks is greater then the difference between a penny and a dollar. WR is a need, perhaps dire, but then again it's day two...

Yes, it would. It really would. However, this is a moot point. You and I both know that the NE front office is probably not going to touch Owens with a ten foot pole. Thank you for the gut laugh with your definition of "throwing the bank vault at..".
Heh, until you get the chance to laugh at Owens on-field antics I'm here to amuse.

Ah, so you think that Akin Aydole is a better overall LB than Karlos Dansby? Otherwise, how did the Dolphins take a step backwards or stay in the neutral today? Would you like a straw?
How do you know they improved? The money they spent? I don't remember Dansby's name coming up the last time NE met Arizona, I already know Crowder is no Joey Porter. Dansby is not a savior anymore than Peppers is likely to be a savior for Chiacago or Boldin for Baltimore, he's just another piece of the puzzle and his guarantee is about twice what Mayo's entire contract is - that's a lot of scrambling to fill a hole with a guy who doesn't give his team much more then Mayo gives NE.

Because he is. However, even if he doesn't pay off, he's a slight upgrade over Lito Sheppard. If he does pay off and actually DOES mesh with Ryan's defense, he's a huge upgrade over Lito Sheppard. Either way, the Jets improved that position.
The Jest dumped an underachiever and traded for an underachiever. They reduced their overhead, but we won't know if they made their team better until we see him on the field. What we do know is they are foregoing drafting a CB in favor of hoping they can motivate an underachiever - how many times does that work out?

Let me show you a post that I made yesterday in the Boldin thread...

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...n-update-pats-pull-out-page8.html#post1747883

I'm not going to drive a stake into the offseason yet. However, I'm not going to lie, I was hoping the Pats would be immediate players in free agency. Especially after BB's presser the week after the blowout loss to Baltimore. As of right now, we're just watching as teams snatch up other free agents which would have been of HUGE assistance to us at areas of need. I still haven't entered the angry stage yet. Right now, I'm hovering in the "disappointment" stage.

Maybe now you can quit trying to paint me as some ADD ridden schmuck who wants anything and wants it now.

Have fun.
You threw a few drops of paint around in your original post too neighbor.

You admit to being angry that NE hasn't made a bigger splash in Free Agency all the while appearing to ignore the concrete moves they did make. You admit to being angry about Boldin not getting signed here - you are angry at your team and if none of what Bill & Co. have done in the past or in yesterday's meat market are going to give you pause... :confused2:

I do humbly apologize for the remarks to which you took offense.
 
I hope you were standing up when you wrote that post
 
There is a future for you in politics. Or coaching the Patriots. You seem to believe that the cap in 2011 will be larger than it was in 2009. And you don't disagree with me that the owners will want a greater piece of the pie. Those two points are diametrically opposed to each other (owners get more and players get more) unless there is a new and significant infusion of cash. At the worst time in a generation for expecting new and significant infusions of cash.

I won't venture a guess as to what you are thinking in this situation. I'll be honest, I don't know how both the owners and players end up winning in this situation. If you have an idea, please share since I'm interested in how this may turn out...as long as it has more detail than "the same way that they have been". Got that from your last post.
I think the difference here is between the TV rights and what the owners collect through parking, luxury boxes, etc. The owners seem to primarily want their stadium income back, with a slight rollback in the player's percentage of the TV revenues. In the long run as TV revenue continues to grow through the power of advertising sales, the players, who have seen a very rapid rise in income over the past decade, will be asked to see slower growth in future moneys. It's much like a Congressional budget, the rate of increase in the bill that was passed is less than the rate of increase in the original bill - therefore it's a budget cut for Congress & in this case the NFLPA.
 
Christ Almighty. I'll look forward to spending a couple of hours on this tomorrow.
 
I hope you were standing up when you wrote that post
And waste all that cushion with which years of excess have graced me? Heaven forbid.
 
I coldn't decide if this thread needed more cow bell or John Wayne.

Going with Wayne.

 
I think the difference here is between the TV rights and what the owners collect through parking, luxury boxes, etc. The owners seem to primarily want their stadium income back, with a slight rollback in the player's percentage of the TV revenues. In the long run as TV revenue continues to grow through the power of advertising sales, the players, who have seen a very rapid rise in income over the past decade, will be asked to see slower growth in future moneys. It's much like a Congressional budget, the rate of increase in the bill that was passed is less than the rate of increase in the original bill - therefore it's a budget cut for Congress & in this case the NFLPA.

I understand what you are saying, but it has to be more complicated than that. If the owners' position was "The money devoted to player salaries won't go down, but it will go up 5% per year instead of 20%", I have to imagine the players would jump at this in a second.

Let's put numbers on this...
32 teams X $125M cap per team = $4B allocated to player salaries
$4B / .595 = $6.7B in the revenue pool
$6.7B - $4B = $2.7B in non-salary revenue
$2.7B / 32 teams = $84M non-salary revenue per team

Those are the ballpark figures for 2009. Lots of simplifying assumptions there but you get the idea. Now adjust those numbers so that the cap increases in 2011 (players are happy) and the $84M non-salary revenue per team goes up (owners are happy). A significant increase in the $6.7B revenue pool will have to be explained though.
 
I understand what you are saying, but it has to be more complicated than that. If the owners' position was "The money devoted to player salaries won't go down, but it will go up 5% per year instead of 20%", I have to imagine the players would jump at this in a second.

Let's put numbers on this...
32 teams X $125M cap per team = $4B allocated to player salaries
$4B / .595 = $6.7B in the revenue pool
$6.7B - $4B = $2.7B in non-salary revenue
$2.7B / 32 teams = $84M non-salary revenue per team

Those are the ballpark figures for 2009. Lots of simplifying assumptions there but you get the idea. Now adjust those numbers so that the cap increases in 2011 (players are happy) and the $84M non-salary revenue per team goes up (owners are happy). A significant increase in the $6.7B revenue pool will have to be explained though.
Time for an anti-war song to bring peace to the negotiations: Where has all the revenue gone, long time passing...
 
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