Will Mac Jones be the starter after the Bye ?

[PatsFan2]

You might not like the results, saying the team did nothing to find alternatives at QB is laughable. Remember how many QB's were brought in after releasing Zappe? At the end of the day Mac regressing and Zappe proving that he is not a viable backup is the real issue. How many teams would look good with QB3? The biggest impact of the MP/JJ experiment might be waiting another year to find out that Mac's ceiling is too low to be a starter in the NFL.

*Ding* *ding* *ding* post of this entire thread but some thinks he could fetch a 4th Rounder.

 

[Ring 6]

There are no signs that he can either. You'd think in year 3 there would be by now. Far more likely he's a bust. And got a 4th rounder anyway so the market is set.

No one has seen him play in year 3. Dallas picked him up to develop him. There is no indication yet of how that is going.
If you can’t see the difference between a guy who dominated low level competition and hadn’t adjusted to the jump yet, and a guy who played at the #1 program in America and has proven he sucks im not sure what to tell you.

 

[upstater1]

This is what I wrote after the 2nd game of the season, when I finally realized Mac was a disaster. I'd been a fan of his until then, and I blamed last year on Patricia, but then I saw DOOM in the first game against Miami (please don't respond to that old thread), and I realized that having a cowering skittish QB isn't good for a football team's psyche:

Key Players [Mac Jones/others] Isn't/Aren't Ready to Play

Sorry to start another thread, but I decided to start this to write something more comprehensive. And I didn't want to talk about X and Os or BOB's tactics. There are some fundamental things happening that are leaving me bewildered. For instance, we're not playing with enough urgency...

www.patsfans.com

 

[Ring 6]

Accurate

So this is the real question. Who's fault is it for the 2022 and 2023 **** shows at the Qb position?

I believe BB had questions about Mac after the 2021 season and wanted Mac gone after the 2022 season. Bill was motivated by Kraft to keep him and invest in an OC and the WR position. We can debate if those were 1/2 measures by Bill out of spite or just bad GM-ing. Probably both as he didn't see it worth resources investing in Mac or Zappe because his evaluation was already done.

Either way...Bill the GM missed on a critical 1st rd pick and/or was ineffective standing up to his owner and telling him he needed a different QB as Mac was not going to cut it. If that is true Bob meddling in roster decisions is very bad.

I’m not sure why we insist on assigning blame to every issue.
The majority of QBs drafted in the first round end up sucking. That doesn’t mean you dont draft one in the first round because a greater percent drafted after round 1 suck.

After investing a #1 in a qb and having him do well for a rookie in a system that protected him, last year they tried to remove the handcuffs early on and it was a disaster. I think they been searching for 2021 since and he has just regressed. I think it would have been difficult to give up on him before year 3, but it’s over now.
I don’t know if I can criticize the timetable.

The question is do you spend assets hedging your bet (and what could you really get) or on other players and hope he takes the coaching finally.

I have to assume the most frustrating thing for a cus h to deal with is coaching a guy who just can’t see and process what’s happening in front of him. And it’s probably also a case where you think you should be able to coach it into him. In this case, not so much.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I’m not sure why we insist on assigning blame to every issue.

Who is we? it's me. It's important to find faults and determine what needs to be fixed.

The majority of QBs drafted in the first round end up sucking. That doesn’t mean you dont draft one in the first round because a greater percent drafted after round 1 suck.

After investing a #1 in a qb and having him do well for a rookie in a system that protected him, last year they tried to remove the handcuffs early on and it was a disaster. I think they been searching for 2021 since and he has just regressed. I think it would have been difficult to give up on him before year 3, but it’s over now.
I don’t know if I can criticize the timetable.

The question is do you spend assets hedging your bet (and what could you really get) or on other players and hope he takes the coaching finally.

I have to assume the most frustrating thing for a cus h to deal with is coaching a guy who just can’t see and process what’s happening in front of him. And it’s probably also a case where you think you should be able to coach it into him. In this case, not so much.

I'm not totally clear and what you are trying to say but I agree Mac would have sucked no matter what

 

[VJCPatriot]

He probably shouldn't. But the way Zappe ended that game probably means he's hard sell now too. And I've seen no indication they trust Cunningham. So maybe Grier....?

The QB room sucks so much that something that shouldn't be a quetsion is now a question

The problem is that it would be a battle of the scrubs at QB whoever we pick to replace Mac Jones.

Cunningham is a rookie and Zappe and Grier have proven absolutely nothing in their short time in the NFL.

We could have like an open competition in practice giving each QB 15 reps or an entire drive to score a TD. Evaluate who looks best, and then pick the best two left over to fight for the starting job before the Giants game. That's the last really 'winnable' game on the schedule.

Not sure how they are going to handle it, but competition is probably the best way to see what you've got.

They could even go bizarre college style and play one QB in the first half and the other in the second half and see who was best. I mean that almost signals how desperate you are. But doesn't every NFL team already know that we are desperate at the QB position?

I just don't see how you can just 'hand the keys' over to Mac Jones without any competition after the pathetic performance he put up against the Colts. That INT against the Colts with a wide open Gesicki in the end zone in a 'you've gotta make that throw moment' off his back foot? Just TERRIBLE!

 

[mgteich]

I’m not sure why we insist on assigning blame to every issue.
The majority of QBs drafted in the first round end up sucking. That doesn’t mean you dont draft one in the first round because a greater percent drafted after round 1 suck.

After investing a #1 in a qb and having him do well for a rookie in a system that protected him, last year they tried to remove the handcuffs early on and it was a disaster. I think they been searching for 2021 since and he has just regressed. I think it would have been difficult to give up on him before year 3, but it’s over now.
I don’t know if I can criticize the timetable.

The question is do you spend assets hedging your bet (and what could you really get) or on other players and hope he takes the coaching finally.

I have to assume the most frustrating thing for a cus h to deal with is coaching a guy who just can’t see and process what’s happening in front of him. And it’s probably also a case where you think you should be able to coach it into him. In this case, not so much.

Ok, we needed to give Jones three years, especially after his rookie year.

HOWEVER, what was Plan B for 2023 going into the season? Who was the backup who could give us wins if needed?

HOWEVER, what was the plan for preparing for 2024 if Jones didn't look good in 2023?

Absent negligence, what was the reason that the team didn't sign a vet to back up Jones this year, and to be a starter or backup in 2024, depending on how things worked out.

 

[upstater1]

Ok, we needed to give Jones three years, especially after his rookie year.

HOWEVER, what was Plan B for 2023 going into the season? Who was the backup who could give us wins if needed?

HOWEVER, what was the plan for preparing for 2024 if Jones didn't look good in 2023?

Absent negligence, what was the reason that the team didn't sign a vet to back up Jones this year, and to be a starter or backup in 2024, depending on how things worked out.

??

We drafted a 4th rounder to be the backup.

Smart teams should ALWAYS draft QBs in the later rounds because vet QBs make a lot of money. A veteran backup like Brissett costs you $8m

Zappe was awful in the preseason. I'm sure they weren't expecting that.

 

[Pape]

Zappe was awful in the preseason. I'm sure they weren't expecting that.

while he had his own issues last season, he was at least somewhat competent... this past preseaon was a complete wtf...

 

[203Pat]

You might not like the results, saying the team did nothing to find alternatives at QB is laughable. Remember how many QB's were brought in after releasing Zappe? At the end of the day Mac regressing and Zappe proving that he is not a viable backup is the real issue. How many teams would look good with QB3? The biggest impact of the MP/JJ experiment might be waiting another year to find out that Mac's ceiling is too low to be a starter in the NFL.

They were just trying to swap trash with trash. I know Patrick Mahomes isn't going to be hanging out there available to sign as a backup but a bunch of guys who have no real experience in NFL games like Matt Corral, Ian Book, and Will Grier when you have two quarterbacks already on the roster you have major questions on is negligent. Guys like Wentz, Foles, or Flacco aren't great but it's hard to imagine theyre worse than any of the castoffs we have cycled through.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

They were just trying to swap trash with trash. I know Patrick Mahomes isn't going to be hanging out there available to sign as a backup but a bunch of guys who have no real experience in NFL games like Matt Corral, Ian Book, and Will Grier when you have two quarterbacks already on the roster you have major questions on is negligent. Guys like Wentz, Foles, or Flacco aren't great but it's hard to imagine theyre worse than any of the castoffs we have cycled through.

Like I said, the team evaluated a number of options you don't like the results... It is not like quality QB's are just available and rebuilding a team is a god given right. Just like there is a reason no one picked up Zappe, all teams passed on the broken down pile of leftovers that you named.

FWIW I get it that you hate BB and he deserves enough fact based criticism without the extra sauce on every post.

 

[203Pat]

Like I said, the team evaluated a number of options you don't like the results... It is not like quality QB's are just available and rebuilding a team is a god given right. Just like there is a reason no one picked up Zappe, all teams passed on the broken down pile of leftovers that you named.

FWIW I get it that you hate BB and he deserves enough fact based criticism without the extra sauce on every post.

This is where what's left of the pro-Bill crowd gets emotional. I don't "hate" Bill. I love what he accomplished here and loved the ride but the ride is over now. It becomes more and more clear Bill Belichick is no longer fit to be a head coach and GM in 2023 and the situation at backup QB is just one of the numerous areas he has dropped the ball. You can get upset about people calling out the situation in the quarterback room but Bill has completely bunged the post-Brady quarterback situation.

I won't even get into what happened with Brady but his succession plan was either Stidham, until he went to a wedding, Brian Hoyer, and then a broken down Cam. When it became clear Cam couldn't play he swung and missed on Mac which I won't kill him for but he doubled down on Brian Hoyer only to release him a year later for daring not to blindly follow his asinine decision to make Patricia and Judge OC/quarterbacks coaches. In the middle of all that is Zappe whom he has set up to fail multiple times now with the Bears MNF nonsense and what Bill did to him on Sunday.

Bill has botched the quarterback position and we have officially bottomed out. Thanks for the memories Bill but please stop embarrassing yourself every Sunday.

 

[sb1]

This is where what's left of the pro-Bill crowd gets emotional. I don't "hate" Bill. I love what he accomplished here and loved the ride but the ride is over now. It becomes more and more clear Bill Belichick is no longer fit to be a head coach and GM in 2023 and the situation at backup QB is just one of the numerous areas he has dropped the ball. You can get upset about people calling out the situation in the quarterback room but Bill has completely bunged the post-Brady quarterback situation.

I won't even get into what happened with Brady but his succession plan was either Stidham, until he went to a wedding, Brian Hoyer, and then a broken down Cam. When it became clear Cam couldn't play he swung and missed on Mac which I won't kill him for but he doubled down on Brian Hoyer only to release him a year later for daring not to blindly follow his asinine decision to make Patricia and Judge OC/quarterbacks coaches. In the middle of all that is Zappe whom he has set up to fail multiple times now with the Bears MNF nonsense and what Bill did to him on Sunday.

Bill has botched the quarterback position and we have officially bottomed out. Thanks for the memories Bill but please stop embarrassing yourself every Sunday.

Zappe should have never been drafted at all so I'm less worried about what BB did or didn't do with him but otherwise - 100% this. No question that coaching experiment last year screwed up his young QB and severely damaged his standing to me as an all time great coach. That was just hubris and trying to be smarter than his peers. No other explanation.

He should go. It's time.

 

[mgteich]

??

We drafted a 4th rounder to be the backup.

Smart teams should ALWAYS draft QBs in the later rounds because vet QBs make a lot of money. A veteran backup like Brissett costs you $8m

Zappe was awful in the preseason. I'm sure they weren't expecting that.

Ok, Jones and untested 4th rounder was Bill's plan. He should be fired for that strategy if it didn't work, and he will be.
============
When you an actual QB that is your long-term QB, then a 4th rounder is fine as a backup. When you aren't sold on your starter, a 4th isn't enough.

 

[Fatmancryin]

Accurate

So this is the real question. Who's fault is it for the 2022 and 2023 **** shows at the Qb position?

I believe BB had questions about Mac after the 2021 season and wanted Mac gone after the 2022 season. Bill was motivated by Kraft to keep him and invest in an OC and the WR position. We can debate if those were 1/2 measures by Bill out of spite or just bad GM-ing. Probably both as he didn't see it worth resources investing in Mac or Zappe because his evaluation was already done.

Either way...Bill the GM missed on a critical 1st rd pick and/or was ineffective standing up to his owner and telling him he needed a different QB as Mac was not going to cut it. If that is true Bob meddling in roster decisions is very bad.

This There were many reports last off season that Mac was being shopped. Then Kraft poured gas on the fire with what he said about Lamar Jackson. A few weeks later he came out and said Mac was the QB meanwhile BB wouldn’t commit to him being the starter until Kraft said that.

If there was a starting QB available without giving out big bucks and draft capital I think the Pats would have a different QB this year.

If I remember correctly there was a lot of reports before the draft that they were interested in Trey Lance over Mac. In fact most were expecting a possible trade up. I do have to wonder if the Mac pick was Mcdaniels. There hasn’t been much available QB wise in the last 3 years though. I read that the NFL is wary about expansion due to the lack of starting caliber QBs.

 

[Fatmancryin]

Zappe should have never been drafted at all so I'm less worried about what BB did or didn't do with him but otherwise - 100% this. No question that coaching experiment last year screwed up his young QB and severely damaged his standing to me as an all time great coach. That was just hubris and trying to be smarter than his peers. No other explanation.

He should go. It's time.

After thinking about it, I think Patricia tried to simplify the playbook to meet Mac’s strengths. It turned bad as Mac and numerous offensive players didn’t buy in from the start. It’s kind of like this year where Mac isn’t buying in. I think the narrative of the coaching ruined Mac is way off base. What we are seeing is exactly what he was coming out of college with the exception he had pro bowlers around him in college at most every offensive position.

 

[mgteich]

.

If there was a starting QB available without giving out big bucks and draft capital I think the Pats would have a different QB this year.

So, that's all we wanted? Isn't this gross incompetence, or at least gross negligence?

They had a QB that they knew wasn't their future. They refused to use draft capital or money to secure a QB that MIGHT win.

 

[Fatmancryin]

Ok, we needed to give Jones three years, especially after his rookie year.

HOWEVER, what was Plan B for 2023 going into the season? Who was the backup who could give us wins if needed?

HOWEVER, what was the plan for preparing for 2024 if Jones didn't look good in 2023?

Absent negligence, what was the reason that the team didn't sign a vet to back up Jones this year, and to be a starter or backup in 2024, depending on how things worked out.

There was no one available. Maybe I would have gone after Baker Mayfield if they knew this wasn’t going to work, but I still blame Kraft. He made a big deal about major changes yet only changed the offensive coordinator and did absolutely nothing else. Kraft deserves just as much blame as everyone else.

 

[Fatmancryin]

So, that's all we wanted? Isn't this gross incompetence, or at least gross negligence?

They had a QB that they knew wasn't their future. They refused to use draft capital or money to secure a QB that MIGHT win.

Absolutely!! I’m going by what was reportedly said by Kraft. Why would he even bring up Lamar Jackson if Mac was the guy? Was the conversation well we can win with Lamar but we will have to take hits to other positions due to the money and just didn’t want to do that? I think both Bill and Kraft didn’t want to invest anything in the QB position due to Mac still being on his rookie deal. It coincides in how they value WRs and most other positions not willing to pay what a player is worth.

 

[Sect140]

he's mentally broken at this point

I agree, at this point it will be a struggle to call a play.