Wickersham book discussion

[MrBigglesWorth]

A stacked roster so good they had not won a playoff game in 18 years. Did you just question why a QB who has 7 superbowls didnt win one every year? lol

I wish we had gronk who was motivated... Yes motivation counts

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Making excuses for losing instead of just owning it.

Making subway commercials.

Spending the most money in FA and overspending on average talent.

Pink stripes retiring.

Vets wanting to leave.

You hate your coach

 

[RobertWeathers]

Making excuses for losing instead of just owning it.

Making subway commercials.

Spending the most money in FA and overspending on average talent.

Pink stripes retiring.

Vets wanting to leave.

OK. You've clearly grown tired of BB and are ready for/want something new. Moving on.

 

[gobesmug]

That is damn accurate.

Players forget 2000 was rough. There were A LOT of grumblings from the Carroll/Tuna leftovers that Bill was an ass (still is). What won the players over was Bill's ability to put players to succeed and prove it on film and eventually winning.

Bill went 5-11 with a team that Pete Carroll took to playoffs 2 seasons prior and went 8-8.

His culture doesn't translate to wins. I agree with you there

 

[Pats1971]

I wish we had gronk who was motivated... Yes motivation counts

Health counts too. All players are motivated, great players are very motivated, that is why they are great players.

 

[gobesmug]

You hate your coach

No I criticize where it is deserved.

Bill has done nothing the last 2 years that deserves high praise.

I don't want him fired, I want him to do better and grow from his mistakes.

I'm a fan and I demand results every year.

That's what fans of the team do

 

[SVN]

Every succesful team over the 20 yrs other than the pats has had down yrs.Look at the eagles, or the ravens or the steelers or the 49ers or GB. They all went to the SB or won it. We have two yrs of misery and we already pulling out the knives at the people who gave us so much over 20 yrs. Only happens in boston .

 

[gobesmug]

OK. You've clearly grow tired of BB and are ready for/want something new. Moving on.

No I'm ready for him to prove the praise he keeps getting for past accomplishments.

I need to see him do it without Brady. And I want to see him do it without Brady.

If he can't do it without Brady then he doesn't deserve the esteem you give him of being a franchise transforming HC.

He is just a HOF HC that needed a HOF QB.

Nothing wrong with that and I'm happy to have Bill as the HC

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill went 5-11 with a team that Pete Carroll took to playoffs 2 seasons prior and went 8-8.

I suggest you review the roster and the cap situation for the 1999 team. Bill had no ****ing choice to let people like Chat Eaton go to SEA.

His culture doesn't translate to wins. I agree with you there

I never said that. What I said was:

If you want to say the culture has not produced results in 1.25 years then that makes sense.

Dude- I Iike you as a poster but that's the 3rd time tonight you are manufacturing a PoV on my behalf and taking me out of context in a Seth Wickersham-kinda way.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No I'm ready for him to prove the praise he keeps getting for past accomplishments.

I need to see him do it without Brady. And I want to see him do it without Brady.

Fair

If he can't do it without Brady then he doesn't deserve the esteem you give him of being a franchise transforming HC.

He'll always deserve the esteem. Every career comes to an end. Happens to every great coach.

He is just a HOF HC that needed a HOF QB.

Noll, Lombardi, Landry, etc is good company

Nothing wrong with that and I'm happy to have Bill as the HC

+1

 

[Pats1971]

Every succesful team over the 20 yrs other than the pats has had down yrs.Look at the eagles, or the ravens or the steelers or the 49ers or GB. They all went to the SB or won it. We have two yrs of misery and we already pulling out the knives at the people who gave us so much over 20 yrs. Only happens in boston .

Not sure anyone is doing that, but one thing to note, was the core that was here is not here anymore. Its real start over time. Starting over during the 20 years of winning was having a 10-6 season and a playoff loss. It was going to happen at some point. Its not pouting or *****ing, its just reality. The notion that Brady would leave and we would just toss a QB and everything keeps spinning was not going to be the case. It does not mean we cannot get back there, but it does not mean its going to happen quickly. The team we have now might not be the team that ends up getting us back to glory. Sometimes it takes awhile to find those kinds of players again.

 

[Ring 6]

No I criticize where it is deserved.

Bill has done nothing the last 2 years that deserves high praise.

I don't want him fired, I want him to do better and grow from his mistakes.

I'm a fan and I demand results every year.

That's what fans of the team do

The funny thing is that you think you can evaluate him and tell him how to go his job better.

 

[Pats1971]

The funny thing is that you think you can evaluate him and tell him how to go his job better.

Yeah, we are fans. lol. I mean I hope this is not the first time you have heard a fan telll how to do things on a team. I am on another board that basically trashes everything Brady ever did. That basically bill just puppet mastered him and won despite what we had at QB. I do not see that as any better. I have no reason to dislike belichick at all, he has been the teams head coach for a lot of years, but there is in fact sides drawn in the sand over those two, and its not fair to either of them, but it exists.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

You can slice it just fine.

The fundamental truth of this dynasty and what is was built on is ensuring only players play that are prepared to play. Those whom are not, don't.

They want to believe that BB, the coach who will do anything to win, who puts winning above all else would bench a player out of spite or whatever and lose a game he could have won, doesn't pass the smell test with me. Something more is there we probably won't ever know.

 

[gobesmug]

Fair

He'll always deserve the esteem. Every career comes to an end. Happens to every great coach.

Noll, Lombardi, Landry, etc is good company

+1

Absolutely agree that is there with Knoll, Lombardi and Landry.

Bill is on the Mt Rushmore of HCs.

I should have phrased that esteem thing differently.

Bill will always deserve his spot among the GOATs

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Before Bill, Pete Carroll with the same QB and close to same roster never had record below 8-8.

He went 10-6 and won a playoff game with Bledsoe.

9-7 and made the playoffs.

Then he went 8-8 and was canned.

Bill with the same team went 5-11.

Explain that if Bill was some magician that makes any roster a Superbowl contender?

To be clear, I respect Bill and think he is one of the GOATs. He was the perfect HC for Brady and the Pats. I just think he isn't above reproach and criticism.

Not the same team, he purged the roster and rebuilt it, some of you guys seem to have a short memory.

 

[Pats1971]

Not the same team, he purged the roster and rebuilt it, some of you guys seem to have a short memory.

The core pieces were there. Law, Milloy, Bruschi, Troy Brown, Faulk, Vinatieri, McGinnist, Tybucky Jones. I have a good memory.

 

[fair catch fryar]

I will read his book and what i'll try hard to do is try to decipher his interpretation of reality and match it to what I believe to be true.

Isn't that the norm with anything on all media these days?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

The core pieces were there. Law, Milloy, Bruschi, Troy Brown, Faulk, Vinatieri, McGinnist, Tybucky Jones. I have a good memory.

Some good players BB kept and dumped the riff raff, he had a 5 year plan to get to the super bowl, since he had TB he got there in two years but he replaced a lot of the riff raff with good players that helped win the super bowl.

 

[Pats1971]

Some good players BB kept and dumped the riff raff, he had a 5 year plan to get to the super bowl, since he had TB he got there in two years but he replaced a lot of the riff raff with good players that helped win the super bowl.

Well sure, but I am saying those players were the core of our early superbowls. They were here when he got here.