Wickersham book discussion

[Pape]

The book seems to be doing a pretty good job of painting Brady in a negative light too, FWIW.

Yeah, I know. Neither deserve this type of hit job is what I was getting at.

 

[Guts]

And this isn't really a surprise to any of us here in the board. I believe there was tension and it kept mounting and at the end they both decided to move on. Nothing wrong with that it's amazing how they kept it together for 20 years from Bill, Kraft and TB they all deserve credit for that.

 

[tom444]

Brady has passed everybody Rice, LT, Brown whoever you want to put up there

That wasn't the point. The point is one guy has coached Brady, Moss, and LT.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Exactly why Bill lost his job in Cleveland.

That quote about Marv Levy is wild. I've never heard a coach belittle another guy for his coaching abilities like that.

Not 100% accurate.

In November Modell told other owners BB was going to be HC in Baltimore.

Yes- BB was not exactly PR friendly and but Modell is a marketing guy at heart. He needed to sell tickets. He 1st inquired about Shula who declined. Then Jimmy Johnson who thought Modell was another idiot like Jerruh. He wanted a big name but settled on Marchibroda because he was a longtime coach of the Baltimore Colts and took the Indy Colts to the AFCCG in 1995. He knew the market and was a more established coach.

 

[hornetfb85]

 

[ralmat55]

I did the math once now revising....

In 2000 the average NFL team was worth $423B
In 2021 the average NFL team was worth $3.5B

That is 8+x increase in valuation over a 21 year period.

In 2000 the NEP franchise valuation was $464B
In 2021 the NEP was worth $5B

That is a 10+x increase in valuation over a 21 year period.

They way I see it, BB and TB12 have made Orchids of Bob $1.5B.

You’re not calculating in the increase of value brought by the opening of Gillette Stadium.

 

[sb1]

Not 100% accurate.

In November Modell told other owners BB was going to be HC in Baltimore.

Yes- BB was not exactly PR friendly and but Modell is a marketing guy at heart. He needed to sell tickets. He 1st inquired about Shula who declined. Then Jimmy Johnson who thought Modell was another idiot like Jerruh. He wanted a big name but settled on Marchibroda because he was a longtime coach of the Baltimore Colts and took the Indy Colts to the AFCCG in 1995. He knew the market and was a more established coach.

Bill not being a personal or friendly guy and not knowing how to play the political game did him in. The fans resented Bill for the Kosar decision from the beginning and Bill basically didn't give a crap. Back then of course Bill didn't have the credibility he does today.

Modell was very aware of that perception. I believe that's what led to all of that.

 

[farn]

FYI the entire franchise has nosedived and Bill is still here.

I mean.. football reference Cleveland ? That is a nose dive... is NE in the middle of two decades of failure ?

 

[ralmat55]

The whole situation was weird and I don’t think we ever truly find out what happened.

We will never know the full story because only Bill knows and it certainly would not cast him in a good light if he divulged it.

 

[venecol]

I am so over all of this. The sooner Brady hangs 50 on 'em the sooner we can just talk about The Kid and his development. Seriously. Bill is a dink? BFD. He's the most successful coach in the NFL, period. He's not warm and fuzzy. So fekkin' what? Jesus. It's football. I swear to God. They managed to put up with each other, RKK, Bill and Tom, for 20 years. It's over. I don't even wanna watch Sunday. I need a break from all of it. For fekks sake.

Make sure to bring a Drs. note when you come back.

 

[ralmat55]

I disagree. You and I have debated the crux of those comments 1000 times.

When a player admits they weren't "dialed in" and "100% prepared" that speaks volumes.

Please give it up already. Butler was SPECULATING out loud when he said that. It was not an admission. That’s even clearer with the revelation of the argument with Big Head Matt.

 

[203Pat]

I mean.. football reference Cleveland ? That is a nose dive... is NE in the middle of two decades of failure ?

Lol so we need to be this bad for another 18 years for it to qualify as a nosedive? The Browns didn't "nosedive" for all those years. They crashed and burned and smoldered away in the wreckage.

 

[Pats1971]

Better than LT?

Belichick has coached Brady, LT, and Moss. Think about that.

Moss was Moss long before Bill coached him.

 

[Ryan]

Does this Wickersham guy do anything other than dig up dirt on the Patriots?

 

[tom444]

Moss was Moss long before Bill coached him.

Not the point. Again, the point is one guy had Brady, Moss, and LT on their teams.

 

[venecol]

Does this Wickersham guy do anything other than dig up dirt on the Patriots?

He also likes to twerk on TikTok

 

[203Pat]

Better than LT?

Belichick has coached Brady, LT, and Moss. Think about that.

It isn't even close. What are we doing here?

 

[Fuzz]

Lol so we need to be this bad for another 18 years for it to qualify as a nosedive? The Browns didn't "nosedive" for all those years. They crashed and burned and smoldered away in the wreckage.

Actually the Browns were about average for most of Bills tenure there, after taking over a team that was 3-13. They improved every season and went 11-5 in '94. They were considered a Superbowl favorite ahead of the '95 season, but that season was doomed from the beginning because Art Modell announced he was moving the team to Baltimore in the middle of it. There was a great episode of "A Football Life" that explains everything that went on that season and how it was set up to fail.

 

[tom444]

It isn't even close. What are we doing here?

Have you ever heard Belichick say someone was better than LT before? The fact that it's true isn't the point. The point is that Belichick said it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not the point. Again, the point is one guy had Brady, Moss, and LT on their teams.

Gronkowski too. All of them are arguably top-25 all-time players. Brady and LT top 5.