Wickersham and others drop numerous bombshells on Belichick/Brady relationship

[Noexcusesfornumber5]

BB won't do that. He has to bury Goodell first. But BB will know how to let it leak out in other ways. The local media is going to come after Kraft for spending. Pay attention to that.

This is a double edged sword because I do think BB was more responsible for spending to the cap and not over than Kraft was. BB wanted a strong middle class, 22 players and depth everywhere. It makes sense to do it that way in a sport with so many men on the field. This isn't bball. Only the top players command huge guarantees that take you far over the cap.

I'm almost as concerned that Kraft will blow apart the team philosophy under BB and that he'll become a Daniel Snyder as I am that he won't spend.

Sounds fun. Do we still get to blame BB for it? The (New) Patriot Way!

 

[upstater1]

This is ****in hilarious.

The first 3 guys on your list were objectively cooked when he got them. Sanu was also bordering on obviously cooked to reasonably objectively cooked.

Phillip Dorsett was still in the league 5 years later. Demaryious went on to catch 36 balls for 433 yards later that same year. In 6 games, Gordon had 20 recepts for 287 yards. That's a 900 yd season.

They got Sanu for Brady because Brady cried after they cut his best buddy (who ended up later moving into his house).

The idea that the Patriots didn't spend any resources for Brady in 2019 is patently false.

If anything they should've spent a lot less. That 2nd round pick for Sanu was a desperation move to appease the QB

 

[PatsWSB47]

Brady wanted out. He showed up on Ross's boat in 2019. He never wanted to finish his career here. He was managing appearances, that's it. You don't show up on Ross's boat unless you look around and realize the entire team is old and that the winning isn't going to continue.

So you've used the boat thing as a drop. I look at is due diligence and a plan B if things went sour and he had plenty of reason to suspect that it would. In your response to my other post I get your point that they tried but they waited too long to address the talent problem and they were left with what was available. If he were to accept the year to year contract offered then he'd likely have another dead end year with diminished league demand for him and fewer available options for other teams. I've said plenty of times that no one could have known he'd have 3 more great years. Even as he was having them a lot of people started believing the 40's were the new 30's that other elites would follow in his footsteps. Nope, they dropped out if the league like flies. I kind of laugh at all the ball washing Flacco is getting for playing well at 39. Brady did it until he was 45....but I digress.

 

[festy1986]

Phillip Dorsett was still in the league 5 years later. Demaryious went on to catch 36 balls for 433 yards later that same year. In 6 games, Gordon had 20 recepts for 287 yards. That's a 900 yd season.

They got Sanu for Brady because Brady cried after they cut his best buddy (who ended up later moving into his house).

The idea that the Patriots didn't spend any resources for Brady in 2019 is patently false.

If anything they should've spent a lot less. That 2nd round pick for Sanu was a desperation move to appease the QB

None of those guys were good. I was there. They actually sucked.

You're arguing that it's not true that they didn't spend while everyone else is arguing that they bought off brand product.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

This is ****in hilarious.

The first 3 guys on your list were objectively cooked when he got them. Sanu was also bordering on obviously cooked to reasonably objectively cooked.

Everyone remembers Sanu at the end of the season. He was actually pretty good for a couple of games before he hurt his ankle. The real issue was that he cost a 2nd round pick.

 

[upstater1]

So you've used the boat thing as a drop. I look at is due diligence and a plan B if things went sour and he had plenty of reason to suspect that it would. In your response to my other post I get your point that they tried but they waited too long to address the talent problem and they were left with what was available. If he were to accept the year to year contract offered then he'd likely have another dead end year with diminished league demand for him and fewer available options for other teams. I've said plenty of times that no one could have known he'd have 3 more great years. Even as he was having them a lot of people started believing the 40's were the new 30's that other elites would follow in his footsteps. Nope, they dropped out if the league like flies. I kind of laugh at all the ball washing Flacco is getting for playing well at 39. Brady did it until he was 45....but I digress.

I'm a Brady fan. I rooted for him when he moved on. I saw the reality of his situation and I thought it was the right time.

The Flores story came out long after in 2022.

But you never go to your archrival like Brady did, while you're under contract another year, and then expect any respect from your team's fanbase.

I think he undercut the Patriots that year because he knew he was out. He was not invested. This actually did damage to the team.

If anything, a strong case could be made that they send him on his way right after the Super Bowl, since he was a lame duck and they wasted needed resources.

It's evident to me that this board and Kraft in general hasn't dealt with the implications of Brady being on that boat.

 

[upstater1]

None of those guys were good. I was there. They actually sucked.

You're arguing that it's not true that they didn't spend while everyone else is arguing that they bought off brand product.

It's not what I'm arguing at all.

I don't know why you have such a great difficulty reading. Between Demaryious and Dorsett's numbers, they would've had a combined 70 catches for 800 yards that year. Go check their production. For 6 games, Gordon was highly productive. Edelman had another 100+ year. Brown absolutely flamed out but on the field he was great. Only Sanu and Harry underwhelmed from what was expected. Meyers wasn't utilized at all by Brady even though he was wide open a lot. Look what he did with Cam Newton.

I also see you totally ignored my biggest point (which was a defense of Brady). The biggest problem that year was the mash unit OL. We had Marshall Newhouse as LT. We lost our swing tackles and their backups. We lost our Pro Bowl guard, our center, our right tackle.

Brady had absolutely no time to throw.

 

[Wozzy]

This article just left me feeling sad and sort of hollow. Everyone knew this wouldn’t end well when we were in the middle of the glory days but seeing it play out so predictably is so so disappointing. I ended the article feeling sorry for everyone, even Kraft. Maybe not Jonathan though.

So stop reading fiction.

 

[festy1986]

It's not what I'm arguing at all.

I don't know why you have such a great difficulty reading. Between Demaryious and Dorsett's numbers, they would've had a combined 70 catches for 800 yards that year. Go check their production. For 6 games, Gordon was highly productive. Edelman had another 100+ year. Brown absolutely flamed out but on the field he was great. Only Sanu and Harry underwhelmed from what was expected. Meyers wasn't utilized at all by Brady even though he was wide open a lot. Look what he did with Cam Newton.

I also see you totally ignored my biggest point (which was a defense of Brady). The biggest problem that year was the mash unit OL. We had Marshall Newhouse as LT. We lost our swing tackles and their backups. We lost our Pro Bowl guard, our center, our right tackle.

Brady had absolutely no time to throw.

Those guys sucked and Bill continued to pursue **** talent long after Brady was gone.

70 catches and 800 yards still wouldn't of impressed me.

I hope you can adjust to the new patriots because those days are long gone. We will be better for it too.

 

[upstater1]

Those guys sucked and Bill continued to pursue **** talent long after Brady was gone.

70 catches and 800 yards still wouldn't of impressed me.

I hope you can adjust to the new patriots because those days are long gone. We will be better for it too.

70/800 doesn't impress you as WR #s.

I think we're done here

 

[festy1986]

70/800 doesn't impress you doesn't impress you as WR #s.

I think we're done here

NOT when you're combining TWO receivers.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

And how exactly does that drumbeat help things?

Unfortunately for you and the other complainers, the TB vs BB debate will be here forever unless you cry enough to get it all silenced. Good luck with that.

The whiners always find their poor selves in the middle of the threads they whine about.

 

[upstater1]

NOT when you're combining TWO receivers.

The snaps are limited. It's always been that way. Go look at previous years. Givens, Amendola, etc. The amount of resources given up for 2 guys who are expected to be 3rd WRs at best is in line with what's expected.

 

[Boomer B]

This is ****in hilarious.

The first 3 guys on your list were objectively cooked when he got them. Sanu was also bordering on obviously cooked to reasonably objectively cooked.

Exactly. He’s basically saying they tried their best by putting bodies out there. Problem is they weren’t that good.

 

[festy1986]

The snaps are limited. It's always been that way. Go look at previous years. Givens, Amendola, etc. The amount of resources given up for 2 guys who are expected to be 3rd WRs at best is in line with what's expected.

You're comparing Phillips and Thomas to amendola.

I think we're done here.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He brought a lot more than that.

Demaryious Thomas, Phillip Dorsett, Josh Gordon, Julian Edelman, Antonio Brown, Mohamed Sanu, N'Keal Harry (1st rounder), Jakobi Meyers.

None of this worked out except for Edelman. But it surely wasn't for a lack of trying. We even sent draft picks away for these players (and I'm not referring to Harry and Sanu). The lack of draft picks actually hurt this team. But we expended a huge amount of resources on these guys and even, in the case of Sanu and Brown, salary cap hits.

They really did try to give Brady everything they could.

This is true and well reasoned bit also missing some critical context:

-The team refused to match Amendola’s contract at the end of 2017, after DA had two spectacular games to end the postseason. Miami didn’t even offer him that much. DA had excellent seasons in Miami and Detroit.

-The team refused to bend on Gronk’s contract and further alienated him, attempted to trade him, and he ultimately retired temporarily in 2019.

-The team decided not to extend Cooks. I don’t really disagree with the decision there based on the contract required, but the decision to acquire him initially drives home the point they needed a premier WR.

They assured Brady they’d be replenishing the WR corps. Their attempts to do so (Harry, AB, Gordon, Sanu) weren’t really a luxury buy for Brady but out of necessity after these other decisions. Brady obviously wanted to keep his guys like Gronk and DA and the team wrote a check it couldn’t cash.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I'm a Brady fan. I rooted for him when he moved on. I saw the reality of his situation and I thought it was the right time.

The Flores story came out long after in 2022.

But you never go to your archrival like Brady did, while you're under contract another year, and then expect any respect from your team's fanbase.

I think he undercut the Patriots that year because he knew he was out. He was not invested. This actually did damage to the team.

If anything, a strong case could be made that they send him on his way right after the Super Bowl, since he was a lame duck and they wasted needed resources.

It's evident to me that this board and Kraft in general hasn't dealt with the implications of Brady being on that boat.

I don't think he hurt his teams as much as he helped it. He still carried the team to win the division. Maybe with a better attitude from him they might have got another win or not been as embarrassed in the playoffs but Belichick wasn't going to change his spots. I know the Captain's supposed to go down with the ship but it was going down with or without him. And it wasn't Brady that sprung the leak in the ship. Look at what's happened to the team since? Brady did that to the team? Belichick was the coach and the GM that let his stubbornness cloud his judgment. He made a choice to let the pieces fall where they may with Brady. Sure keep him if he accepted the one year deal because it's only a year and he can plan from there. If he didn't accept it, well he's in his 40's so he's on his way out anyway. It wouldn't have been Brady on the Dolphins that ended the dynasty. It ended regardless and it ended in short order. So we can be mad or disappointed in Brady for seaking a plan B while under contract but remember that Brady knew his value and ability. I'm not going to condemn him over it.

 

[Boomer B]

D. Thomas was cooked
M. Sanu was pretty much cooked
J. Gordon had mental health issues and was close to being cooked
AB was batshit crazy
Harry sucked and was a massive mistake
Edelman was still good but starting to decline due to health
J. Meyers was a rookie late round pick and needed to learn the offence/game before he could be a solid contributor

You got to be drunk on BB Kool Aid to think this motley crew of misfit island WRs were good enough

 

[reflexblue]

That debate may never go away.

If I'm placing blame I'd give the edge to Bill. He's the one who worked with Brady daily and should have recognized that he wasn't done.

I think bb knew brady could still play, brady was fine 2019 until his o-line started to get hit with injuries. I think it was personal, brady was getting his personal trainer (alex geurraro) into gillett, bb didn't like that, and more and more of bradys team mates were shifting form the team trainer to geurraro. Brady was disobeying BB, and BB didn't like it.

 

[Noexcusesfornumber5]

In their prime and if Antonio Brown would behave those were enough but Josh Gordon was more committed to drug use than the team. Edelman was declining, Burkhead was pretty average. So no, it was nit enough.

You knew that before the Miami game? You're a genius! Call Kraft and give him all the players in this upcoming draft and free agent period that will guarantee us a Super Bowl. I'll take you to Friendly s for a nice ice cream idf it works out.