Wickersham and others drop numerous bombshells on Belichick/Brady relationship

[VJCPatriot]

Wrong 100%

Predictably the dinosaur brigade comes to BB's blind defense without considering facts or reality.

How am I wrong in stating that if BB had been successful post-Brady that he'd still be here?

Kraft would not let BB go if he had kept the team competitive and in the playoff hunt each year instead of the reality which is he missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 seasons, went sub .500 during that stretch, and bottomed out by leading the Patriots to a 4-13 season.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Kraft should have explained to Belichick that Brady was different and he wasn't going let him dump him like he had other aging stars, and the franchise needed to see that the GOAT retired as a Patriot. Belichick might have grumbled but he wouldn't have quit -- and it would have saved his ass and his reputation, especially if they retired together after Bill caught up with Shula.

The problem is that Kraft is not very good at sacking up or standing up to people. Look at the abuse and backstabbing he took from Roger Goodell for instance.

In the end Bob Kraft had to endure consecutive losing seasons, missing the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years, seeing Brady win a championship elsewhere, and well this past 4-13 season and losing in Germany, his dream game, added up to be the straw that broke the camel's back and he finally decided to let BB go.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It's all cobbled together. A lot of that comes from the Krafts. They've been engineering this.
Did it backfire on them that the reporter's also consulted other sources? Sure. I mean, they invited the Bradys to dinner and everything, but that didn't stop Tom Sr. from giving quotes, even though it made Kraft into collateral damage

General question: How can one acknowledge that Tom Sr. hates Belichick and also claim with a straight face they think Brady doesn’t despise Belichick? Are they taking Tom’s social media and interview niceties about Bill seriously? Tom Sr. is all the evidence you need that there’s a lot of bitterness and this was not a happy “let’s just go our own ways!” split.

 

[Kasmir]

The problem is that Kraft is not very good at sacking up or standing up to people. Look at the abuse and backstabbing he took from Roger Goodell for instance.

In the end Bob Kraft had to endure consecutive losing seasons, missing the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years, seeing Brady win a championship elsewhere, and well this past 4-13 season and losing in Germany, his dream game, added up to be the straw that broke the camel's back and he finally decided to let BB go.

Kraft's capitulating to BB was disastrous. He let BB damage the Franchise and in the end self destruct.

I have never been impressed by Kraft. His drunken "we are all Patriots" speech in 2001 was cringe. I think his Orchids of Asia debacle cost us the chance to keep Antonio Brown and win another Superbowl in 2019.

His handling of SpyGate, DeflateGate and CameraGate was despicable.

Now he has lost both GOATs. He could have and should have prevented this awful denouement.

 

[upstater1]

Predictably the dinosaur brigade comes to BB's blind defense without considering facts or reality.

How am I wrong in stating that if BB had been successful post-Brady that he'd still be here?

Kraft would not let BB go if he had kept the team competitive and in the playoff hunt each year instead of the reality which is he missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 seasons, went sub .500 during that stretch, and bottomed out by leading the Patriots to a 4-13 season.

We've gone over such twisted narratives, we've demonstrated why they're wrong 100x, what else is there to say? You guys listen to Boston media too much, the media in Boston is full of haters, and you're easily lead astray. I'm going to defend Kraft and Mayo from them from now on because their ethnicity/skin color means a lot to the Patriot radio guys. And they are going to be attacked on that basis. Kraft is cheap, Mayo is dumb. That's the narrative that's going to build in the next year.

 

[upstater1]

General question: How can one acknowledge that Tom Sr. hates Belichick and also claim with a straight face they think Brady doesn’t despise Belichick? Are they taking Tom’s social media and interview niceties about Bill seriously? Tom Sr. is all the evidence you need that there’s a lot of bitterness and this was not a happy “let’s just go our own ways!” split.

I didn't say that. You're thinking of someone else

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I didn't say that. You're thinking of someone else

I said General Question because you’ve brought up Tom Sr’s quotes. Would you agree with the premise?

1. Tom Sr hates Bill
2. Therefore, Tom almost certainly hates Bill

Fairly obvious deduction leads to conclusions that Wickersham is not bullshitting about the general nature of that split and fractured relationship.

 

[Rob0729]

.

It's irrelevant

Belichick is going to make it look like that. Everyone is going to say that regardless.

And Kraft will deserve it.

I hope Kraft spents like a crazy man to forestall that critique, but given his games with "mutual agreement" with Belichick (which was always about the money), we all know he's not going to do it.

I hope he does.

I mean, are we getting Tee Higgins?

What happens if the Pats go on a spending spree? Won’t that make it look like Belichick was the one who wouldn’t spend? The Patriots are far more likely to be big spenders than a lot of the teams that Belichick may be on. The Pats have $75 million in cap space with $14 million more when they cut JC Jackson. That would make the Pats with the most cap space in the league.

The Chargers are $35 million over the cap.

The Cowboys are $11 million over the cap ( and Jerruh ain’t giving up GM responsibilities).

The Falcons have $37.7 million. A decent amount of money by today’s standards, but not really enough to go on a spending spree.

The Commanders and Titans have about as much as the Pats, but both have new GMs. The Commanders just hired Adam Peters and the Titans hired Carthon last year. So Belichick won’t get personnel control on those teams.

And the Bengals might franchise Higgins to keep the band together for one more year before they have to let them go. So I am not sure anyone will pay for him.

 

[Boomer B]

Michael Holley maybe?

Bill has used Shefter a lot as well

 

[Rob0729]

Bill has used Shefter a lot as well

He uses Mark Daniels and Dan Shaughnessy a lot locally.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Is Kraft a dimwit?

Does he not know how this is going to backfire in the Patriots' face?

No matter if it's true, Belichick is going to spend money like a drunken sailor wherever he goes, and he's going to let it be know far and wide that this is what he was prevented from doing in New England. Players will know Foxboro is the place to go if you DON'T want to get paid.

I see this coming from a mile away. And with this hit piece, Kraft will absolutely deserve it.

Maybe it really is... a bunch of bologna

Pete Carroll Shares Story About Robert Kraft, Bologna Sandwiches

Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll recalled his time with the Patriots and revealed a bizarre Robert Kraft story involving bologna sandwiches.

nesn.com

 

[upstater1]

I said General Question because you’ve brought up Tom Sr’s quotes. Would you agree with the premise?

1. Tom Sr hates Bill
2. Therefore, Tom almost certainly hates Bill

Fairly obvious deduction leads to conclusions that Wickersham is not bullshitting about the general nature of that split and fractured relationship.

Yes

 

[upstater1]

.


What happens if the Pats go on a spending spree? Won’t that make it look like Belichick was the one who wouldn’t spend? The Patriots are far more likely to be big spenders than a lot of the teams that Belichick may be on. The Pats have $75 million in cap space with $14 million more when they cut JC Jackson. That would make the Pats with the most cap space in the league.

The Chargers are $35 million over the cap.

The Cowboys are $11 million over the cap ( and Jerruh ain’t giving up GM responsibilities).

The Falcons have $37.7 million. A decent amount of money by today’s standards, but not really enough to go on a spending spree.

The Commanders and Titans have about as much as the Pats, but both have new GMs. The Commanders just hired Adam Peters and the Titans hired Carthon last year. So Belichick won’t get personnel control on those teams.

And the Bengals might franchise Higgins to keep the band together for one more year before they have to let them go. So I am not sure anyone will pay for him.

I said I doubted he would do that.

The whole hangup at the end was Kraft looking to get some money back from Belichick

 

[Boomer B]

General question: How can one acknowledge that Tom Sr. hates Belichick and also claim with a straight face they think Brady doesn’t despise Belichick? Are they taking Tom’s social media and interview niceties about Bill seriously? Tom Sr. is all the evidence you need that there’s a lot of bitterness and this was not a happy “let’s just go our own ways!” split.

A father is always over protective of their kid. I think Tom got sick of Bill but he doesn’t hate him. Time is always the great healer and it’s obvious Brady has a lot of respect for Bill.

 

[upstater1]

I can't believe a Bill-hater actually posted this article.

It's clear Kraft and especially Jonathan meddled and screwed things up badly. Read the staffers' comments.

How in the world did Bill continue under them with this level of insanity?

 

[Boomer B]

I can't believe a Bill-hater actually posted this article.

It's clear Kraft and especially Jonathan meddled and screwed things up badly. Read the staffers' comments.

How in the world did Bill continue under them with this level of insanity?

It also makes clear that some of the choices Bill made were not good. Breer said today on the radio he talked to those in the building and that the scouts loved Deebo and AJ Brown. Those 2 were traveling together to the interviews (they had the same agent), and were at the Pats facility together. Bill got pissed that they were joking around together and loved how serious N”Keal was, even though both Deebo and Brown wanted to play for the Pats. Obviously we know who he went with, against his own scouts recommendations. Too much of this type of **** was happening with the personal as Bill grew in power with no one to tell him no.

 

[lancerman]

The Krafts are quickly going to realized what irrelevance means. BB sure has made mistakes but he was very close fixing all of them.
The Krafts acted like fans vice clear thinking owners. They should watch Manchester United to see the future they are going to get, changing coaches every 2 to 3 years.

They had a 4 win season. It was the worst season Bill ever had, the worst offense and special teams he ever coached. He was not "very close to fixing all of them".

He was about to go into this season not knowing who his QB would be and would likely end up taking the 3rd QB in the draft with the 3rd pick, had no answers at WR and had his best pass catcher a free agent, had to rebuild a line with the best lineman a free agent, and he didn't have a kicker worth anything.

 

[captain stone]

Yes, because all journalists with integrity reveal their sources, right?

This story was written and reported by ESPN Senior Writers Seth Wickersham and Wright Thompson, with additional reporting by Senior Writer Don Van Natta Jr. This story is based on interviews with more than a dozen team and league executives, owners, confidants, coaches, and others with first-hand knowledge of conversations.

Cited from the article itself: The last days of the Patriot Way

The BB advocacy group sounds pretty butthurt right now about the truth finally getting out there.

Let's face it, BB's downfall started with his arrogance and his decision to get rid of Tom Brady.

BB told Kraft that Brady was washed up. He was wrong. Brady winning a championship with the Buccaneers in his first year away from New England revealed the truth to the lie.

And even though BB's descent started with getting rid of Brady, he would STILL be here if he had been successful afterwards.

But instead he ran this team into the ground just 4 years later. It was Bill's disastrous drafting decisions, free agency decisions, and coaching staff decisions that finally brought him to a rock bottom 4-13, losing in Germany, losing to the Jets, etc. and finally gave Kraft no other choice but to let him go.

Agree with everything, though not quite with the line I bolded: IMO, Bill's downfall started when he benched Malcolm Butler... Yes they won #6 the following year, but it would fly into the face of human nature if the other players, Brady especially, didn't feel let-down, or betrayed, or back-stabbed by their HC putting other reasons ahead of the T-E-A-M...

 

[captain stone]

...There are so many things you can do between the draft and FA to end up with 2 WRs, 2 QBs, 2 LTs in the draft.

You just gotta be willing to spend $$.

The only hitch to all this is that you don't really want to go into the season with a 2nd round rookie LT, but guess what? You have to.

Even that might not be as dire as it sounds; after all, Bill did it in 2001...

 

[mgcolby]

Yes, because all journalists with integrity reveal their sources, right?

This story was written and reported by ESPN Senior Writers Seth Wickersham and Wright Thompson, with additional reporting by Senior Writer Don Van Natta Jr. This story is based on interviews with more than a dozen team and league executives, owners, confidants, coaches, and others with first-hand knowledge of conversations.

Cited from the article itself: The last days of the Patriot Way

The BB advocacy group sounds pretty butthurt right now about the truth finally getting out there.

Let's face it, BB's downfall started with his arrogance and his decision to get rid of Tom Brady.

BB told Kraft that Brady was washed up. He was wrong. Brady winning a championship with the Buccaneers in his first year away from New England revealed the truth to the lie.

And even though BB's descent started with getting rid of Brady, he would STILL be here if he had been successful afterwards.

But instead he ran this team into the ground just 4 years later. It was Bill's disastrous drafting decisions, free agency decisions, and coaching staff decisions that finally brought him to a rock bottom 4-13, losing in Germany, losing to the Jets, etc. and finally gave Kraft no other choice but to let him go.

The truth sucks.
I guess that's why there is a "polite society".
As a guy that nearly shed a tear at the official news BB is gone, but also had an understanding that this needed to happen, however, I don't feel I fall into either camp.

I have been a tank for a great draft pick guy since we got rolled by Dallas.

I will say, hindsight is always 20/20. I can't blame Kraft or BB for not committing to a 43 year old QB. It's absurd on the surface. Now you can argue either way a sixth round pick etc .. committed to playing until 45.

But do you question if he remained in Foxboro would he have had that extra umph to get over the hump or did the perceived slight motivate 12?

We'll probably never know, and likely neither will Tom.

Let's not turn this into a divided forum anymore than it has been.

Everyone should just enjoy the unbelievable run we experienced.

We need to move forward and root for what happens next

Just my 2 cents