Who's Available On Day 3

[mgteich]

If Belichick has a strong preference for a player, especially a qb, he should give up a 6th or 7th and trade up.

 

[maineman209]

Well if the quality is not there this year then there is always next year. I would love Shea Patterson to be our next QB - it’s a pipe dream, I know.

I'm still hoping for RJ Bergsdorf-Other out of Northwest Alaska State Technical Institute.

Speaking of pipes and whatever one may smoke in them.

Not that I'm into any of that.

 

[maineman209]

Your not a fan?
I think hes a classic Patriot

I'm just saying that he hasn't made me "giddy" yet, and I'm wondering if he's left me out for some reason.

 

[maineman209]

If Belichick has a strong preference for a player, especially a qb, he should give up a 6th or 7th and trade up.

He will.

 

[mgteich]

At what point do you take a flier on Hurst? Or is he in your no-fly zone? Package a 5+6 if he is still within reach?

He probably comes off the board early in the 4th as it only takes 1 team to take the risk. But if he makes it to late 4th, I’d spin that roulette wheel.

why risk his life?

 

[Kontradiction]

Still, that's based on observations from last year. I want to see how he performs this year before reaching any conclusion.

I don't see why that's a problem.

How do you see Flowers suddenly generating the upper body strength and the ability to stack and shed against the run? There's a very good reason why his snap count increased dramatically after Hightower went out. They didn't feel that he was good enough against the run. The tape on him verifies that. It is what it is. Belichick will put a guy in a position to do what he does best, which is what he did with Flowers until injuries at the position pretty much forced his hand. He's not a run-stuffing LB just like Roberts isn't a coverage specialist. Both were forced into those duties last year. Now, if you want to say that you want to see how Flowers grows in coverage, I'm all for that. But to act like the defense wouldn't be in deep doo-doo if his snap count is increased (thus forcing him to play the run more than he should) is folly.

 

[Kontradiction]

Here we go..

You're of the opinion that Flowers has always been stout against the run? Please share when.

 

[RobertWeathers]

My gut tells me BB will trade a pick for an NFL player on defense.

 

[mgteich]

Vincent Valentine and Jonathan Jones too

and clayborne

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

If Belichick has a strong preference for a player, especially a qb, he should give up a 6th or 7th and trade up.

Yeah If we have someone rated higher than anyone else (say 2nd round grade) packaging a 7th with 105 to get to the top wouldn’t be a bad idea. Just to stop the titans jumping us again.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

My gut tells me BB will trade a pick for an NFL player on defense.

Mychael Kendricks would be nice.

 

[maineman209]

How do you see Flowers suddenly generating the upper body strength and the ability to stack and shed against the run? There's a very good reason why his snap count increased dramatically after Hightower went out. They didn't feel that he was good enough against the run. The tape on him verifies that. It is what it is. Belichick will put a guy in a position to do what he does best, which is what he did with Flowers until injuries at the position pretty much forced his hand. He's not a run-stuffing LB just like Roberts isn't a coverage specialist. Both were forced into those duties last year. Now, if you want to say that you want to see how Flowers grows in coverage, I'm all for that. But to act like the defense wouldn't be in deep doo-doo if his snap count is increased (thus forcing him to play the run more than he should) is folly.

By the end of 2018 Camp, it will have been six months since the end of the SB. If, in that time, Flowers has learned enough technique to enable him to better use the strength (24 reps at his pro day) and athleticism he has to stack-and-shed and to better position himself, I wouldn't consider that "suddenly".

I guess I'm just unwilling to say what he "is" because I'm still naive enough to believe that people can improve sometimes.

 

[long distance]

You're of the opinion that Flowers has always been stout against the run? Please share when.

He is a situational player (and ST monster) not a starter. He was by far the best option in important “star“ role last year. Its a position BB tries to find adequate answer for few years now. (With adding true slot CB in Dawson it will be interesting to see how it affects slot defending overall). He is not liability vs run (like most “star“ options in this draft) and is stout enough for his role.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mychael Kendricks would be nice.

They really need a 3rd pro-level 3 -down player at LB. I'm ok with KVN and High but if one or both go down it's a huge problem.

 

[mgteich]

Yeah If we have someone rated higher than anyone else (say 2nd round grade) packaging a 7th with 105 to get to the top wouldn’t be a bad idea. Just to stop the titans jumping us again.

any team can trade to move ahead of us

 

[maineman209]

You're of the opinion that Flowers has always been stout against the run? Please share when.

Flowers had 72 total defensive snaps entering the 2017 season and then got 283 more defensive snaps with the Pats for a grand total of 355 defensive snaps in his career. It's difficult for me to meaningfully apply "always" in that context.

 

[Kontradiction]

By the end of 2018 Camp, it will have been six months since the end of the SB. If, in that time, Flowers has learned enough technique to enable him to better use the strength (24 reps at his pro day) and athleticism he has to stack-and-shed and to better position himself, I wouldn't consider that "suddenly".

I guess I'm just unwilling to say what he "is" because I'm still naive enough to believe that people can improve sometimes.

Technique is fine. But if you don't have the strength to take on the run, all the technique in the world isn't going to help you in that regard. When he came out in the draft, the knock on him was that he was really an oversized safety that converted to Sam and his lean frame would prevent him from being a force against the run. To date, he hasn't done anything to erase that concern. He'd have to bulk up considerably in order to be the force against the run that Hightower and even KVN are. Short of that, I see no problem with looking at him as exactly what he is - a situational linebacker that can come in and be effective in obvious passing situations. That's why the defense is in trouble if he has to play a significant portion of snaps. He gets easily engulfed by blockers. Expecting that to change is setting yourself up for disappointment.

He is a situational player (and ST monster) not a starter. He was by far the best option in important “star“ role last year. Its a position BB tries to find adequate answer for few years now. (With adding true slot CB in Dawson it will be interesting to see how it affects slot defending overall). He is not liability vs run (like most “star“ options in this draft) and is stout enough for his role.

The bolded spells out why the defense is in trouble if he's getting starter snaps.

 

[primetime]

Tier 1: Quality starter (9)
Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA
Isaiah Wynn, OL, Georgia
Quenton Nelson, OL, Notre Dame
Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia
Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State
Derwin James, DB, Florida State
Derrius Guice, RB, LSU
Maurice Hurst, DT, Michigan
Isaiah Oliver, CB, Colorado

Tier 2: Starter (23)
Will Hernandez, OG, UTEP
Harold Landry, EDGE, Boston College
Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma
Bradley Chubb, EDGE, NC State
Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Virginia Tech
Lamar Jackson, QB, Louisville
James Daniels, OL, Iowa
Leighton Vander Esch, LB, Boise State
Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State
Rashaan Evans, LB, Alabama
Arden Key, EDGE, LSU
Antonio Callaway, WR, Florida
Mike McGlinchey, OT, Notre Dame
Sam Darnold, QB, Southern Cal
Jaire Alexander, CB, Lousiville
Mike Hughes, CB, UCF
DaRon Payne, DT, Alabama
Hayden Hurst, TE, South Carolina
Josh Sweat, EDGE, Florida State
Frank Ragnow, C, Arkansas
Calvin Ridley, WR, Alabama
Sony Michel, RB, Georgia
Genard Avery, LB, Memphis

Tier 3: Developmental (23)
Minkah Fitzpatrick, S, Alabama
Vita Vea, DT, Washington
Anthony Miller, WR, Memphis
Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming
Kolton Miller, OT, UCLA
Courtland Sutton, WR, SMU
Nick Chubb, RB, Georgia
Dallas Goedert, TE, South Dakota State
Tegray Scales, LB, Indiana
Fred Warner, LB, BYU
Chris Herndon, TE, Miami
Malik Jefferson, LB, Texas
J'Mon Moore, WR, Missouri
Ronald Jones, RB, Southern Cal
Justin Reid, S, Stanford
Mike Gesicki, TE, Penn State
Jaylen Samuels, RB, NC State
Carlton Davis, CB, Auburn
Equanimeous St. Brown, WR, Notre Dame
Mason Rudolph, QB, Oklahoma State
Isaac Yiadom, CB, Boston College

Tier 4: Have a chance (17)
Kemoko Turay, EDGE, Rutgers
Taven Bryan, DT, Florida
Nathan Shepherd, DT, Fort Hays State
Oren Burks, LB, Vanderbilt
Kylie Fitts, EDGE, Utah
Mike White, QB, Western Kentucky
Connor Williams, OL, Texas
Ronnie Harrison, S, Alabama
PJ Hall, DT, Sam Houston State
Derrick Nnadi, NT, Florida State
RJ McIntosh, DL, Miami
Shaun Dion Hamilton, LB, Alabama
Mark Walton, RB, Miami
Shaquem Griffin, LB, USF
Breeland Speaks, DL, Ole Miss
Kyzir White, S, West Virginia
Orlando Brown, OT, Oklahoma

Tier 5: Developmental or situational (10)
Russell Gage, WR/ST, LSU
Chad Kanoff, QB, Princeton
Holton Hill, CB, Texas
Chase Edmonds, RB, Fordham
DJ Reed, CB, Kansas State
JK Scott, P, Alabama
Christian Sam, LB, Arizona State
Ryan Nall, FB, Oregon State
Christian Campbell, CB, Penn State
Dorian O'Daniel, LB/ST, Clemson

 

[long distance]

They really need a 3rd pro-level 3 -down player at LB. I'm ok with KVN and High but if one or both go down it's a huge problem.

Looking at 2018 only - FA Casillas would be much better bet to step up if needed than any of remaining LBs on board IMO.

Future is always far ahead in this game. The two possible game changers at position went #8 and #16 and even Evans as an intriguing prospect but only 1y starter went #22 (BB usually doesn't go for one year starters esp. that high)..

 

[primetime]

The medicals on Hurst must have been really bad.