Who are the core players?

[BobDigital]

So we have a few more days to burn and I thought this be an interesting conversation to have.

Who do you think are the core players of this team? The ones that (health providing) will ALWAYS be active on game day assuming they are preforming up to the level they should?


Offense - 19

QB 2 - Brady Garo - Duh
TE 3 - Gronk Wright Hooman - Hooman provides enough versatility to always be out there and allows Gronk to take blocking downs off which is important. Develin is a good blocking but not as good.
RB/FB 4 - Rildey Vereen White Devilin - I think you need to carry Bolden most games so you can keep Ridley on a leash and he provides STs but he is a guy you can sit based on certain matchups. White is to back up Vereen in case he gets dinged.
OL 5 - Vollmer Cannon Connolly Solder Fleming - Wendell/Stork will either be the starting C or sit. Connolly will either start or be a key back up as will Fleming IMO. The last spot will go to the G playing the best.
WR 5 - Edelman Amendola Dobson Lafell Thompkins - No surprises here.

Defense 16

DT - 4 - Wilfork Siliga Easley Jones - The last DT spot depends on if you wanna run a 3-4 or 4-3 as your base for that game.
DE - 2- Jones Nink - I am sure we will have at least 1 more pure DE in the game but I could see us sitting either of Buchanan or Moore depending on how they develop and the game plan
LB - 4 - Collins Mayo Hightower Fleming - All 4 are probably a must as of now.
CB - 4 - Revis Dennard Browner Arrington - Ryan SHOULD be a lock but if he doesn't step it up and Butler continues to do so; who knows.
S - 2 - McCourty Ebner - Chung provides a run stopping presence but could be bench for certain match ups. Ebner is an A+ STer and unsittable. Wilson/Harmon depends on who is hot or if we feel we need a certain level of STs play.

STs - 4 - Gost Allen LS?? Slater - Whoever the longer snapper is will play but it is kinda odd to call a guy not yet on the team a core guy.

So by my count i have 39 core players. What would you change?

 

[ausbacker]

To me, a core player is someone the team absolutely must have on the team to ensure success. My list is considerably smaller than that.

QB: Brady
RB:
WR: Edelman
TE: Gronkowski
OL: Solder (LT effect)
DL: Wilfork, Jones
LB: Mayo, Collins
DB: Revis, McCourty

HC: Belichick (add-on pick)

 

[BradyFTW!]

Really depends on the definition of core. To me, a core guy is someone who, if he goes down, your gameplan is dramatically changing because he's a talent who you can't hope to even reasonably approximate. There are lots of good players, but when someone like, say, Logan Ryan or Brandon LaFell goes down, it doesn't fundamentally change how you play football. By that definition of core, IMO ours looks something like this:

Offense: Brady, Solder, Gronk, Vereen, Vollmer. You could make a case for Edelman and/or Ridley, and I hope that Dobson will become indispensable enough to end up here too.
Defense: Wilfork, Jones, Mayo, Collins, McCourty, Revis. Hopefully Easley will demonstrate that he belongs here.

 

[Brady6]

The first thing I thought when I saw this thread was I should say that Amendola does not belong on the list and will be inactive on game day, just to drive the Amendolians mad.. .

On a serious note, I would go with:

QB-Brady-Garopollo
RB-Ridley-Vereen
FB-Develin
WR-Edelman-Dobson-LaFell-Amendola
TE-Gronkowski-Wright
OL-Solder-Vollmer-Cannon-Connolly-Kline
DL-Wilfork-Easley-Siliga-Jones
DE/OLB-Jones-Ninkovich-Buchanan
ILB/OLB-Mayo-Collins-Hightower
DB-Revis-McCourty-Dennard-Browner-Ryan-Wilson-Arrington-Chung-Harmon
ST-Gostkowski-Allen-Slater-Ebner

Players like Arrington, Wilson, Chung, Develin, and Buchanan play significant roles on our core 4 special teams units. Outside of that I honestly am not locking into any OL or DL.

I would not consider all these players core players however, core to me is a more significant player like Brady, Edelman, Gronkowski, Wilfork, etc.

 

[ausbacker]

The first thing I thought when I saw this thread was I should say that Amendola does not belong on the list and will be inactive on game day, just to drive the Amendolians mad.. .

On a serious note, I would go with:

QB-Brady-Garopollo
RB-Ridley-Vereen
FB-Develin
WR-Edelman-Dobson-LaFell-Amendola
TE-Gronkowski-Wright
OL-Solder-Vollmer-Cannon-Connolly-Kline
DL-Wilfork-Easley-Siliga-Jones
DE/OLB-Jones-Ninkovich-Buchanan
ILB/OLB-Mayo-Collins-Hightower
DB-Revis-McCourty-Dennard-Browner-Ryan-Wilson-Arrington-Chung-Harmon
ST-Gostkowski-Allen-Slater-Ebner

Players like Arrington, Wilson, Chung, Develin, and Buchanan play significant roles on our core 4 special teams units. Outside of that I honestly am not locking into any OL or DL.

I would not consider all these players core players however, core to me is a more significant player like Brady, Edelman, Gronkowski, Wilfork, etc.

So, the whole team?

 

[Brady6]

So, the whole team?

I think those 38 players will generally be active on game day, I would not label them all core players by definition though.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

Brady, Gronk, Vereen, Vollmer, Solder, Edelman

Mayo, McCourty, Wilfork, Collins, Hightower, Chandler Jones, Ninkovich

 

[Oswlek]

I'm still not sure how LaFell meets either definition of "core player."

Care to make a sig wager, B6? I'll bet you that at least three other WRs have more productive seasons than LaFell. This doesn't count TEs or RBs, just pure WRs, so all LaFell would have to do is not get beat out by two of Thompkins, Dobson and Amendola (or all three of them if Edelman gets hurt again!).

So, you on?

 

[Brady6]

I'm still not sure how LaFell meets either definition of "core player."

Care to make a sig wager, B6? I'll bet you that at least three other WRs have more productive seasons than LaFell. This doesn't count TEs or RBs, just pure WRs, so all LaFell would have to do is not get beat out by two of Thompkins, Dobson and Amendola (or all three of them if Edelman gets hurt again!).

So, you on?

Sure I will take the wager. What are the terms?

 

[PatCat]

Tom Brady, Darelle Revis

 

[MrNathanDrake]

Tom Brady, Darelle Revis

How can Revis be a core player when he hasn't even been on the team for a year, and theres no guarantee he'll be here next year.

Core players are guys who are around for a long time and you build your team around

 

[borg]

The "We're Screwed" list..........(if this player goes down, the Pats are screwed)

1)Brady........but Poncho G has lessened the anxiety level
2)Solder.......Cannon's versatility keeps Sea Bass off the list
3)Gronk........need I explain

No WRs, No RBs.......interchangeable parts. Vereen comes the closest....but not this time

4)Jones.........No Ninko though I'd hate to find out I'm wrong
5)Wilfork.......Space eater, minutes eater, pasta eater
6)Mayo.....the D QB
7)Collins.....the X factor.....envelops TEs and buries QBs....no substitute for his skillset
8)McCourty.........with only one NFL safety on the roster, irreplaceable
9)Revis.....The Gronk of the Defense....We saw how Talib lifted the defense in '13 (when healthy). A special D with Revis....without him.....not so much

 

[Froob]

To me, a core player is someone the team absolutely must have on the team to ensure success. My list is considerably smaller than that.

QB: Brady
RB:
WR: Edelman
TE: Gronkowski
OL: Solder (LT effect)
DL: Wilfork, Jones
LB: Mayo, Collins
DB: Revis, McCourty

HC: Belichick (add-on pick)

I wouldn't put Edelamn, Collins (not yet), and probably Jones but good list. It's insane how big of an impact moving Dmac to safety was.

 

[PatCat]

How can Revis be a core player when he hasn't even been on the team for a year, and theres no guarantee he'll be here next year.

Core players are guys who are around for a long time and you build your team around[/QUOTI
Just did it to raise a few eyebrows lol. Really it's probably just TB because we aren't winning a superbowl without him. Agree?

 

[mgteich]

The OP used "core" in a different way than we normally do. HOWEVER, he did define what he meant.

I think that it is indeed useful to explore which players we expected to ALWAYS be active, barring injuries.

The discussion many want to have with regard to players critical to the success of he team is a different one entirely.

One question, the one the thread is about asks about the 30-40 players who will always be active. The other question asks about the dozen to so key players on the team.

To me both discussions are useful.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[mayoclinic]

It's a different sense of "core" than what the OP intended, but in the current CBA most players are 4 year rentals or less. I would suggest that the "core" players are those that a team develops and keeps beyond 4 years or their initial contract. That includes drafted players, UDFAs, and FA pickups who are developed into long term members of the team. High-priced FAs seldom qualify as "core" players under this definition, as they don't often get to a second contract with their new team, and often don't play out the duration of their initial deal (see: Adalius Thomas).

By tenure, the "core" players on the Pats by this definition:

1. Tom Brady. 15th season. Drafted in 2000, developed by the team into a GOAT candidate.
2. Vince Wilfork. 11th season. Drafted in 2004. Multiple year team captain and pro bowler.
3. Stephen Gostkowski. 9th season. Drafted in 2006.
4. Dan Connolly. 8th season. Drafted as a UDFA in 2005 by Jacksonville, then signed by the Pats in 2007. Team captain.
5. Jerod Mayo. 7th season. Drafted in 2008. On his 2nd deal. Team captain and pro bowler.
6. Matt Slater. 7th season. Drafted in 2008. On his 2nd deal. Team captain and pro bowler.
7. Ryan Wendell. 7th season. Signed as a UDFA in 2008.
8. Sebastian Vollmer. 6th season. Drafted in 2009. On his 2nd deal. One of the best RTs in the game.
9. Julian Edelman. 6th season. Drafted in 2009. Becoming an impact player on offense.
10. Rob Ninkovich. 6th season. Drafted by New Orleans in 2006, signed by the Pats in 2009. On his second contract with the team. Team captain last season.
11. Kyle Arrington. 6th season. Signed as a UDFA by Philadelphia in 2008, signed by the Pats in 2009. On his second contract.
12. Rob Gronkowski. 5th season. Drafted in 2010. On his 2nd deal. Pro bowler.

Some of those guys have been maligned on this board, but they have stood the test of time by staying on the team. Many have developed into more significant roles.

5 guys currently on their rookie deals who look like they are "core" players:

- Devin McCourty. 5th season, under the old CBA. Team captain and pro bowler. Should get an extension.
- Nate Solder. 4th season. Pats chose to exercise his 5th season option. Should get a long term extension.
- Chandler Jones. 3rd season. Pats will likely exercise his 5th season option. Should get a long term contract.
- Nate Ebner. 3rd season. Looks like a core STer and possible future captain. Matt Slater 2.0, with more upside at his position.
- Jamie Collins. 2nd season. Looks like a future pro bowler.

That makes about 17 players, or a little less than 1/3 of the team. He Who Shall Not Be Named was also a "core" player after getting a second contract, but incarceration got in the way.

Guys in their 3rd year or later who I am less sure about becoming "core" players:

- Shane Vereen. 4th season. I think he will get a 2nd deal and become a core player, but with his injury history, it's not a given.
- Marcus Cannon. 4th season. I think he will get a 2nd deal and become a core player, but it's not a given.
- Stephen Ridley. 4th season. I think BB views him is easily replaceable, with his successor possibly already in house (Tyler Gaffney).
- Dont'a Hightower. 3rd season. Not sure his play will justify a second contract or 5th year option.
- Alfonzo Dennard. 3rd season. Solid player, but not sure he is an automatic 2nd contract.

It's too early to pass judgment on everyone else, IMO.

 

[mgteich]

I like this analysis. I would agree that you questionable list is all questionable.

HOWEVER, I would add REVIS. I don't know how he cannot included in a list of core players on the team. I understand that FA acquisition seldom qualify. I think Revis is the exception.

It's a different sense of "core" than what the OP intended, but in the current CBA most players are 4 year rentals or less. I would suggest that the "core" players are those that a team develops and keeps beyond 4 years or their initial contract. That includes drafted players, UDFAs, and FA pickups who are developed into long term members of the team. High-priced FAs seldom qualify as "core" players under this definition, as they don't often get to a second contract with their new team, and often don't play out the duration of their initial deal (see: Adalius Thomas).

By tenure, the "core" players on the Pats by this definition:

1. Tom Brady. 15th season. Drafted in 2000, developed by the team into a GOAT candidate.
2. Vince Wilfork. 11th season. Drafted in 2004. Multiple year team captain and pro bowler.
3. Stephen Gostkowski. 9th season. Drafted in 2006.
4. Dan Connolly. 8th season. Drafted as a UDFA in 2005 by Jacksonville, then signed by the Pats in 2007. Team captain.
5. Jerod Mayo. 7th season. Drafted in 2008. On his 2nd deal. Team captain and pro bowler.
6. Matt Slater. 7th season. Drafted in 2008. On his 2nd deal. Team captain and pro bowler.
7. Ryan Wendell. 7th season. Signed as a UDFA in 2008.
8. Sebastian Vollmer. 6th season. Drafted in 2009. On his 2nd deal. One of the best RTs in the game.
9. Julian Edelman. 6th season. Drafted in 2009. Becoming an impact player on offense.
10. Rob Ninkovich. 6th season. Drafted by New Orleans in 2006, signed by the Pats in 2009. On his second contract with the team. Team captain last season.
11. Kyle Arrington. 6th season. Signed as a UDFA by Philadelphia in 2008, signed by the Pats in 2009. On his second contract.
12. Rob Gronkowski. 5th season. Drafted in 2010. On his 2nd deal. Pro bowler.

Some of those guys have been maligned on this board, but they have stood the test of time by staying on the team. Many have developed into more significant roles.

5 guys currently on their rookie deals who look like they are "core" players:

- Devin McCourty. 5th season, under the old CBA. Team captain and pro bowler. Should get an extension.
- Nate Solder. 4th season. Pats chose to exercise his 5th season option. Should get a long term extension.
- Chandler Jones. 3rd season. Pats will likely exercise his 5th season option. Should get a long term contract.
- Nate Ebner. 3rd season. Looks like a core STer and possible future captain. Matt Slater 2.0, with more upside at his position.
- Jamie Collins. 2nd season. Looks like a future pro bowler.

That makes about 17 players, or a little less than 1/3 of the team. He Who Shall Not Be Named was also a "core" player after getting a second contract, but incarceration got in the way.

Guys in their 3rd year or later who I am less sure about becoming "core" players:

- Shane Vereen. 4th season. I think he will get a 2nd deal and become a core player, but with his injury history, it's not a given.
- Marcus Cannon. 4th season. I think he will get a 2nd deal and become a core player, but it's not a given.
- Stephen Ridley. 4th season. I think BB views him is easily replaceable, with his successor possibly already in house (Tyler Gaffney).
- Dont'a Hightower. 3rd season. Not sure his play will justify a second contract or 5th year option.
- Alfonzo Dennard. 3rd season. Solid player, but not sure he is an automatic 2nd contract.

It's too early to pass judgment on everyone else, IMO.

 

[mayoclinic]

I like this analysis. I would agree that you questionable list is all questionable.

HOWEVER, I would add REVIS. I don't know how he cannot included in a list of core players on the team. I understand that FA acquisition seldom qualify. I think Revis is the exception.

I understand your point, and from other definitions Revis most certainly is a core player. But from the point of view of this analysis, it is far from a sure thing that Revis will be with the team for 4+ years, given his age, contract size, and mercenary tendencies. I hope he will, but I also think it's premature to categorize any new player as "core" under this definition. I think we all thought we were getting a long term "core" player when Adalius Thomas signed in 2007. So far Revis looks like a nice fit on the team, but it's still early.

I'd put Revis in a separate category - an impact player, but not a "core" player under my arbitrary definition.

 

[mayoclinic]

BTW, of those 17 "core" players on my list, almost half were late round (5th-7th) draft picks, UDFAs, or low-profile pickups from other teams:

- Matt Slater and Rob Ninkovich were 5th round picks (Nink with another team, subsequently picked up for cheap)
- Tom Brady and Nate Ebner were 6th round picks
- Julian Edelman was a 7th round pick
- Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell and Kyle Arrington (picked up after being cut) were UDFAs