Which player(s) has been the biggest disappointment so far?

[emoney_33]

Oh I just read the thread title. To be clear, Brady is most certainly NOT even close to the biggest disappointment this season. Sorry if that's how I was coming off.

 

[The Dynasty]

If your entire argument depends on your opinion of what my expectations are then please just stop now. My expectations of Brady 2010 post-Moss is Brady 2006, so please stop. Tom Brady does not control wins and losses alone, 6-2 is indicative of the TEAM. Rivers is playing better than Brady in 2010. Rivers' team/coaching is inferior.

Well he is doing much better this season compared to 2006 dispite playing with a weaker supporting cast. So by your expectations he is exceeding them...Seriously, you are killing yourself with every point you make.

Brady '06: 61.8 %, 3529 yards, 24 TDs, 12 INTs, 87.9 rating
Brady '10 (we are half way through so I am just going to double what he has now, for certain categories): 63.6%, 3652 yards, 28 TDs, 8 INTs, 95.7 rating

So as you said your expectations are the 2006 Brady, and he is clearly exceeding your expectations, so you should stop being all over him.

Sorry, but unlike you I understand that there is never one thing involved in a win, loss or comeback. I never said that Brady did NOTHING to help the team beat Baltimore. You flat out said "Brady WON" that game, and he did NOT win that game alone. He helped his team win, but other top-10 QBs would have as well, which was my only point regarding that. He didn't play great the first ~3 quarters, but he did figure things out and have a good stretch of drives to tie the game. He struggled in OT but got it together for the 3rd drive. He played generally well in those drives and poorly in other drives, but also without the defense the comeback never happens. Overall he had a decent game but he did not "WIN" that game, the Patriots did. I don't like when people say player so-and-so WON or LOST a game, it is never 1 player that wins or loses a game. Even when it's the LAST play of the game, at that point in time they are "winning" the game but the game as a whole was won/lost by many more factors.

2007 was a case of the league being Mossed and I never expect Brady to approach those levels again as I don't expect he'll ever have that type of talent at WR again. Just to clarify so you can stop pretending what my expectations are.

Yes, I do understand that it is a team thing and one player doesnt win a game, it is just a way of speaking. Without Brady the Pats dont complete that 4th quarter comeback, that is my point. And you said he struggled in OT, but what about those drops by Hernandez? Forget about those. Just give the guy some credit for crying out loud, he is having a very good year, although the stats dont overwhelm you, he is getting it done on the field and getting W's and that is all that matters.

 

[emoney_33]

Well he is doing much better this season compared to 2006 dispite playing with a weaker supporting game. So by your expectations he is exceeding them...Seriously, you are killing yourself with every point you make.

Brady '06: 61.8 %, 3529 yards, 24 TDs, 12 INTs, 87.9 rating
Brady '10 (we are half way through so I am just going to double what he has now, for certain categories): 63.6%, 3652 yards, 28 TDs, 8 INTs, 95.7 rating

So as you said your expectations are the 2006 Brady, and he is clearly exceeding your expectations, so you should stop being all over him.

Try to understand my point before jumping on me as if I'm contradicting myself. They lost their deep threat after week 4. The expectations of his production WITH Moss was a little better than 2009. The expectations post-Moss is 2006. To be fair he struggled the first 4-5 games in 2006 without Branch so I definitely give him a break and expect him to improve. The stats you use include the first 4 games, which were different circumstances.

Yes, I do understand that it is a team thing and one player doesnt win a game, it is just a way of speaking. Without Brady the Pats dont complete that 4th quarter comeback, that is my point. And you said he struggled in OT, but what about those drops by Hernandez? Forget about those. Just give the guy some credit for crying out loud, he is having a very good year, although the stats dont overwhelm you, he is getting it done on the field and getting W's and that is all that matters.

Well fine, I'll stop nitpicking the way of speaking. Maybe we don't win with Hoyer, but I think we'd still win with any of the other top 10 or so QBs in the league.

 

[stcjones]

I'll go with Darius Butler by a wide margin so far, hopefully he turns it around soon. He looked like a player with talent last year, looked horrible this year when he's played.

Agree with you wholeheartedly....Butler has been horrendous.....hope he can turn his career around...otherwise he is another secondary BUST!

 

[stcjones]

Tate for mine. Apart from 1 game he's really done nothing on offense to show he's going to be a reliable long term target for Brady. We need some playmaking receivers big time through free agency or the draft.

AGREE with u here...when we drafted Tate...I remember the commentators saying "he is injured right now, but the pats got a steal here....this kid has the potential to be one of the top receivers and KR'S in the league. Well he has yet to reach his potential and not sure he will. Has had a few good KR'S....but overall major disappointment.

 

[The Dynasty]

Try to understand my point before jumping on me as if I'm contradicting myself. They lost their deep threat after week 4. The expectations of his production WITH Moss was a little better than 2009. The expectations post-Moss is 2006. To be fair he struggled the first 4-5 games in 2006 without Branch so I definitely give him a break and expect him to improve. The stats you use include the first 4 games, which were different circumstances.

You are just beating around the bush now, your point is fair, but it isnt what you said originally. Just give Brady credit for the season is having with his supporting cast. Although his numbers may not be as high as some would like them to be, he is still having a very good season and is the leader of the offense.

 

[emoney_33]

You are just beating around the bush now, your point is fair, but it isnt what you said originally.

Maybe it's not what I posted directly to you originally, but it's hard to know exactly what you've said in each thread. It's quite obvious I was talking about the last 4 weeks in my mind, because Brady's numbers through the first 4 were TERRIFIC.

Just give Brady credit for the season is having with his supporting cast. Although his numbers may not be as high as some would like them to be, he is still having a very good season and is the leader of the offense.

I will give him credit as soon as he actually starts having a good season with this current mediocre supporting cast. He hasn't yet, but I fully expect him to work it out with his young and/or healing receiving options.

 

[ivanvamp]

I guess I don't get your point. Tate is on pace to produce more than White did in either of his first two seasons.

Why, exactly, is Tate being compared to Roddy White?

 

[Calciumee]

Why, exactly, is Tate being compared to Roddy White?

Because it's a player that did worse than Tate

 

[Nunchucks]

Tate is essentially a rookie this season, we can't expect him to be that productive when he is still learning about the speed of the NFL

 

[PatsBoy12]

A poster in the other thread mentioned TBC and Meriweather. I'd have to include them in this thread also. TBC has been invisible and Meriweather seems to have forgot how to tackle.

It's funny because I got reamed for saying the same exact thing in another thread. I also agree with Meriweather. I know a lot of people feel it's Butler, and I can't really argue that. However, TBC and Meriweather are my biggest disappointments because they are both veterans coming off of really good years. The Patriots felt so good about TBC that they gave him a very good extension. Meriweather looked like a rising star at his position and was beginning to be compared to the likes of Ed Reed and Troy P. Meriweather has at least shown some improvement in recent weeks. They've both been infuriating to watch.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Brady without a DOUBT. It's perfectly reasonable to have high expectations for the highest paid qb in the NFL. He's certainly not in the elite group of qb's this year, I would say middle of the pack with players like Flacco. Of course, this is from peformance alone, not leadership and other intangibles. I just don't have the faith in him like I used to. I've come to expect 3 and outs, overthrown balls, being flustered way too easily in the pocket. I think the one play that epitomized his play this year was the the 3 and goal in San Diego where Brady could have crawled the two yards into the end zone but instead elected to thrown the ball away.

This is exactly how I've been feeling. When I started to feel that way last season, I told myself that the guy was coming off his first major injury and he was obviously going to be rusty and a bit timid. However, I don't know what the excuse is this season. I know his receivers haven't been great and most of them are young and still learning, but that doesn't account for some of the horrid passes I've seen. The 3 and outs, especially in crucial situations, has been driving me absolutely nuts.

Frankly, someone posted earlier how they feel the debate of Brady vs. Manning has been laid to rest, and I have to agree based solely on performance this year (discounting past performances). Manning has lost pretty much his whole receiving corp, but he still marches them up and down the field. I said at work a few weeks back that I don't think Brady is elite anymore and almost got jumped on by one of my co-workers. I stand by that assessment.

 

[JackBauer]

Why, exactly, is Tate being compared to Roddy White?

It was the first example that came to mind of a star wide receiver who had a slow start to his career in the NFL.

I thought the purpose of the comparison was pretty clear myself.