When did we ever run the Amoeba Offense?

[DaBruinz]

There is no coincidence that pre-McDaniels we used to regularly have the most different numbers of players with a catch or a TD in a season. With McDaniels you know that there are a few main targets who will always get their stats every single game.

I never said McDaniels was a bad OC, he was a very good one, just like Martz was. But both run very set offensive schemes that benefited from HOF talent where it didn't matter that the defense knew what was coming.

McDaniels isn't fooling everyone by going around lying about his 'amoeba', 'chameleon' offense.

Listen - You're hate of McDaniels and lack of understanding of an NFL offense is amazing.

First off, I can GUARANTEE you that the Pats had more than 10 plays. I can think of 6 DIFFERENT running plays just off the top of my head. Are you seriously going to claim that the Pats only had 4 different pass plays? Because I can think of 6 more of those just off the top of my head.

Secondly, one of the reasons that the Pats didn't have as many different receivers is because they had Moss, Welker, and Faulk. One of the things that happens when you have to high caliber receivers is that they get the lionshare of the receptions.

Third, if you go back to the 1st two years, the Pats were still spreading the ball around quite a bit. Your claim that they didn't is pure fantasy.

 

[DaBruinz]

Hmm, 2008 only 5 players caught TD's, and in 2007 only 7 players (Mankins doesn't count).

That is a HUGE drop off from 11 players and 10 players with TD catches from 04-05.

Also, the players with catches is also a significant difference. Thanks for posting those stats, which only go to support the fact that McDaniels calls an EXTREMELY predictable offense, one that relied on HOF talent to succeed just like Mike Martz relied on... except Martz never tried to claim that he ran an 'amoeba' offense, like McKID did

Blessed all, you are truly ignorant. The reason there was only 5 different players who caught TDs in 2008 was because of Moss and Welker. Same with 2007. What is your excuse for 2005 and 2006? When the Pats had 10 and 11 players catch TD passes? Those were McDaniel offenses.

It doesn't support the fact that McDaniels went with an Extremely predictable offense. First off, in 2007, it was Brady at the helm. In 2008, it was Cassel. Are you really going to say that some of it wasn't the difference in QBs? Next, the RUNNING game in 2008 was better than in 2007. As is supported by the fact that the Pats had 21 TDs and over 2200 yards, in comparison to 2007 when they had only 17 TDs and 1849 yards. Also, in 2007, the offense had more passing attempts (586) than in 2008 (534). The offense ran more running plays in 2008 (513) compared to 2007 (471).

There is a litany of items that people can through at you to prove how WRONG you are. You have a choice. You can open your eyes and ears to what people are saying or you can continue to prove to everyone that you are ignorant on this particular subject and that you are letting your bias for the person cloud your perceptions. If its the former, I am sure people will be amazed. If its the latter, people will just shake their heads and continue to laugh at you for wanting to be ignorant on the subject.

 

[maverick4]

Multiple people have commented on McDaniels' predictability, lack of adjustments, and stubborn-ness for the past 4 years. Not just the past year, and not people out to get whoever is the OC.

They have game charts of which formations were used and how often, after each game. Go look at those. We are not running a chameleon offense, we run the exact same stuff every.single.week.

It is the highest of comedy for McDaniels to say with a straight face he went with an "amoeba" offense.

Even your crappy excuses don't make sense. Either he DID run a predictable offense which is why you even bring up the fact that he had Moss/Welker/Faulk and thus why you admit that he used the same plays over and over, or he ran an amoeba offense, which the FACTS do not support nor any of your arguments support. Even the biggest McDaniels ball washers are justifying that he did that because he had such good talent at wide out, thus inadvertently admitting he is not running a chameleon offense. Even these major homers have no response to this recent article about how he supposedly runs an "amoeba" offense.

 

[Synovia]

How does that relate to McDaniels claiming to not running a predictable, set offense, when it is blatantly obvious that he does? Why is he trying to pretend he runs some sort of amoeba, chameleon offense week to week when he doesn't?
.

Completely agree.


The patriots probably still run the most flexible offense in the league, but they've been significantly less flexible since McDaniels got the OC title. I think Randy Moss made him a worse OC.

 

[Deus Irae]

Completely agree.


The patriots probably still run the most flexible offense in the league, but they've been significantly less flexible since McDaniels got the OC title. I think Randy Moss made him a worse OC.

Oh, for crying out loud..... The team set the NFL record for most points in a season. Please don't feed into Maverick's insanity.

 

[Rob0729]

Multiple people have commented on McDaniels' predictability, lack of adjustments, and stubborn-ness for the past 4 years. Not just the past year, and not people out to get whoever is the OC.

They have game charts of which formations were used and how often, after each game. Go look at those. We are not running a chameleon offense, we run the exact same stuff every.single.week.

It is the highest of comedy for McDaniels to say with a straight face he went with an "amoeba" offense.

Even your crappy excuses don't make sense. Either he DID run a predictable offense which is why you even bring up the fact that he had Moss/Welker/Faulk and thus why you admit that he used the same plays over and over, or he ran an amoeba offense, which the FACTS do not support nor any of your arguments support. Even the biggest McDaniels ball washers are justifying that he did that because he had such good talent at wide out, thus inadvertently admitting he is not running a chameleon offense. Even these major homers have no response to this recent article about how he supposedly runs an "amoeba" offense.

A times he did run a predictable offense and many times that predictabilty was the a thing of beauty. Tell me you didn't watch the Pats destroy the Jags defense last year by eating apart their weakness and watching the flavor of the moment Jags be totally frustrated that they knew what Brady was going to throw at them and had no idea how to stop it. Or the year before, when the flavor of the moment Vikings with their league leading run defense getting totally picked apart because the Pats didn't even pretend to run the ball. The Vikings knew Brady would be passing on virtually every play and they also knew they had nothing they could do to stop it.

Again, predictability is not neccessarily a bad thing. If you can find a team's weakness which they cannot adjust to, you ram it down their throats. Heck, the Steelers got the game winning TD on a predictable play last night. It was the exact same play as the play before except to the opposite corner of the end zone.

McDaniels' biggest strength was finding the weakness in opposing team's defenses and exploiting it. It is hard to argue with his success rate. I know you want to blame him and the offense for the complete and utter collapse of the defense against the Colts and all the fumbles vs. the Broncos in the playoffs, but this offense has run, as well or better than with Weis under McDaniels. Unfortunately, you want to blame the guy for every loss this team has had whether it is his fault or not. And the only playoff game where you can argue he was a major player in the loss is last year's Super Bowl. Otherwise, he was clearly not the problem.

 

[maverick4]

This thread is about a claim McDaniels made in a Denver paper that he is bringing is his "amoeba", "chameleon" offense to the Broncos.

That claim is complete baloney.

This thread is not about who scores a bunch of points. Mike Martz previously coached the highest scoring offense ever and that's not the point. Mike Martz enjoyed HOF talent at every position and used a very set, predictable, explosive system featuring mostly passes to his RB, slants, and in cuts. Similarly, McDaniels enjoyed HOF talent and used a very PREDICTABLE, explosive offense using mostly 3WR shotgun sets.

McDaniels claim to a recent Denver paper is horsesh*t, hence the challenges to this claim.

 

[maverick4]

A times he did run a predictable offense and many times that predictabilty was the a thing of beauty. Tell me you didn't watch the Pats destroy the Jags defense last year by eating apart their weakness

Again, predictability is not necessarily a bad thing.

Of course I enjoy putting up points.

You just admitted, AGAIN, that McDaniels ran a predictable offense, and are now arguing that it's not a bad thing.

I don't care to debate whether being predictable is good or not, I personally think it isn't. But this thread is about McDaniels claiming to a Denver paper that he ran an "amoeba" offense and is bringing that to the Broncos... when that is a complete lie.

 

[Rob0729]

This thread is about a claim McDaniels made in a Denver paper that he is bringing is his "amoeba", "chameleon" offense to the Broncos.

That claim is complete baloney.

This thread is not about who scores a bunch of points. Mike Martz previously coached the highest scoring offense ever and that's not the point. Mike Martz enjoyed HOF talent at every position and used a very set, predictable, explosive system featuring mostly passes to his RB, slants, and in cuts. Similarly, McDaniels enjoyed HOF talent and used a very PREDICTABLE, explosive offense using mostly 3WR shotgun sets.

McDaniels claim to a recent Denver paper is horsesh*t, hence the challenges to this claim.

The claim is far from baloney. McDaniels almost always changed the offense for the personnel he had and the defense he was facing. I have given you specific examples where he was very successful with the amoeba offense or whatever you want to call it.

As for getting off point, you have only yourself to blame for that one. When you start to make incorrect claims about the number of players catching passes and catching TDs.

I know you hate McDaniels or think he is a good OC, but think everything he does as a OC is horrible. But he is far better than you give him credit for and he was far more adaptable than you give him credit for.

 

[Rob0729]

Of course I enjoy putting up points.

You just admitted, AGAIN, that McDaniels ran a predictable offense, and are now arguing that it's not a bad thing.

I don't care to debate whether being predictable is good or not, I personally think it isn't. But this thread is about McDaniels claiming to a Denver paper that he ran an "amoeba" offense and is bringing that to the Broncos... when that is a complete lie.

At times he did run a predictable offense, but so did Weis. You overrate unpredicatabilty. Most teams run a fairly predictable offense. Other than Miami, teams don't run any more gadget or trick plays than McDaniels. I can watch virtually any game and guess just as many plays on either offense as you could with McDaniels.

Ok, I got sucked into this craziness again. McDaniels is gone. Let go of your anger towards the guy already.

 

[Deus Irae]

Of course I enjoy putting up points.

You just admitted, AGAIN, that McDaniels ran a predictable offense, and are now arguing that it's not a bad thing.

I don't care to debate whether being predictable is good or not, I personally think it isn't. But this thread is about McDaniels claiming to a Denver paper that he ran an "amoeba" offense and is bringing that to the Broncos... when that is a complete lie.

Given that all the pass routes are not only not predictable, but also vary based upon the receiver and quarterback reading the coverage, your argument, as usual, is crap.

 

[maverick4]

You overrate unpredicatabilty. Most teams run a fairly predictable offense. Other than Miami, teams don't run any more gadget or trick plays than McDaniels. I can watch virtually any game and guess just as many plays on either offense as you could with McDaniels.

Here you go again defending that it's okay to be predictable, admitting for the 3rd time you agree that McDaniels DID NOT run an amoeba, chameleon offense as he claimed to a Denver paper. You are admitting that my point is correct as it pertains to this thread and McDaniel's lie, and yet you still feel the need to come here and talk about off-topic issues such as why being predictable isn't so bad?

Why does McDaniels feel the need to lie and pretend he ran an amoeba offense? He ran an explosive offense here that was predictable and used basically one formation over half the time. He should just say so, instead of pretending to be a mini-Belichick.

 

[maverick4]

Given that all the pass routes are not only not predictable, but also vary based upon the receiver and quarterback reading the coverage.

So calling the same pass play with the same formation is by definition unpredictable because the QB and receivers can adjust based on what they see?

Please just admit that you are McDaniels little baby brother he just hired to join him in Denver. You are a major ball-washer and that argument makes no sense. Calling the same formations and plays is not unpredictable as you claim just because the QB and WR's can ad lib at the line.

 

[Rob0729]

Here you go again defending that it's okay to be predictable, admitting for the 3rd time you agree that McDaniels DID NOT run an amoeba, chameleon offense as he claimed to a Denver paper. You are admitting that my point is correct as it pertains to this thread and McDaniel's lie, and yet you still feel the need to come here and talk about off-topic issues such as why being predictable isn't so bad?

Why does McDaniels feel the need to lie and pretend he ran an amoeba offense? He ran an explosive offense here that was predictable and used basically one formation over half the time. He should just say so, instead of pretending to be a mini-Belichick.

Stop putting words into my mouth. I never agreed that it is not an amoeba offense.

You also need to get a dictionary. The Amoeba offense has nothing to do with unpredictability. It isn't the chameleon offense (nor did McDaniels claim that), it is the amoeba offense. It is about gameplanning your offense to your opponent. That means you can be amoeba-like and still be predictable. I will bring up the Vikings' game example yet again. It was totally an Amoeba offense because the Pats revised their entire gameplan and calling to exploit the Vikings' weakness, but it was a very predictable offense.

Your problem is apparently your reading comprehension. McDaniels never claimed to run an unpredictable offense. He claimed he would adjust the offense to his personnel and the defense he was playing. What does that have to do with unpredictability. McDaniels didn't lie because that is exactly what he did.

You are just so obsessed with unpredictabilty on the offense, you totally missed the point of what McDaniels was saying. If you look at the article, the only thing remotely close to unpredictability McDaniels talks about is how the offense changed from week to week.

 

[Rob0729]

Given that all the pass routes are not only not predictable, but also vary based upon the receiver and quarterback reading the coverage, your argument, as usual, is crap.

Yeah, it is kinda funny that the Pats use presnap reads which McDaniels doesn't call during the game (although he does design before hand) and yet the offense is predictable. Even Brady doesn't know for sure what routes his players are going to run until they get to the line of scrimage and he sees what defense he is facing, yet they are predictable.

 

[maverick4]

I agree with you R that most offenses and defenses do not run an amoeba defense or offense. There is nothing wrong with saying you are bringing a certain system when you join a new team.

The amoeba, chameleon quality was a hallmark of the 01-04 Patriot teams, we could play with anybody because we adapted week to week, featuring totally different game plans depending on the opponent.

McDaniels definitely did not run that type of offense. We ran the same predictable, explosive offense, because our talent was so good. You have now inadvertently admitted 3 times now that McDaniels ran a predictable offense, and are now arguing it's not a bad thing.

I don't care if it's a good thing or bad thing, the point is he is flat out lying to the Denver paper.

He should stop pretending he's like Belichick, and just admit he's like every other coach in this league who uses a set system and is not as imaginative or adaptive.

 

[SVN]

Stop putting words into my mouth. I never agreed that it is not an amoeba offense.

You also need to get a dictionary. The Amoeba offense has nothing to do with unpredictability. It isn't the chameleon offense, it is the amoeba offense. It is about gameplanning your offense to your opponent. That means you can be amoeba-like and still be predictable. I will bring up the Vikings' game example yet again. It was totally an Amoeba offense because the Pats revised their entire gameplan and calling to exploit the Vikings' weakness, but it was a very predictable offense.

Your problem is apparently your reading comprehension. McDaniels never claimed to run an unpredictable offense. He claimed he would adjust the offense to his personnel and the defense he was playing. What does that have to do with unpredictability. McDaniels didn't lie because that is exactly what he did.

You are just so obsessed with unpredictabilty on the offense, you totally missed the point of what McDaniels was saying. If you look at the article, the only thing remotely close to unpredictability McDaniels talks about is how the offense changed from week to week.

its nothing different conceptually than what weiss ran .Offense changes week to week depending on opponent. i remember the indy game in indy where mcginest made the tackle at 1, antowain smith our starting RB was inactive and we were plagued by injuries at WR but we still came out throwing all over.
Somehow , we dont win the SB in the last 4 yrs and dont win any games scoring 9-6 against the browns anymore , we think weiss ran the offense better. Its 4 yrs since the last SB and not 40 and we were a few plays away in every game .Can happen to any team which has that many shots at the SB.
Mcd has his flaws but he ran an efficient enough offense IMO, week to week and yr to yr. There is nothing wrong in running the same basic 10 plays because everytime does that. You have to still stop it. Should we take the WR screen out of our playbook for a couple of weeks just to keep other teams guessing even though it works for us with welker all the time ? its ridicolous to change things just for the heck of it.

 

[maverick4]

If you look at the article, the only thing remotely close to unpredictability McDaniels talks about is how the offense changed from week to week.

The offense DIDN'T change week to week. Reiss posted game charts after every game, we used one major 3WR shotgun formation as the pre-dominant plays every single week!

McDaniels is full of crap for trying to pretend he changes his offense to his opponent. You have admitted in this thread, and countless past threads, that he basically dares his opponents to beat the plays that they know are happening. That is the opposite of changing your offense, that is stubbornly using your own system and knowing your talent is good enough to usually beat the defense.

 

[maverick4]

There is nothing wrong in running the same basic 10 plays because everytime does that.

Everyone except the 01-04 Pats.

The thread isn't debating whether it's good to be predictable, or it's bad to just change things up for the heck of it.

The thread is McDaniels is over in Denver claiming he adapts his offense based on the opponent, when he doesn't.

The OP of this thread is asking the same thing, even in Boston media we have never had our offense called an amoeba offense under McDaniels.

 

[Rob0729]

The offense DIDN'T change week to week. Reiss posted game charts after every game, we used one major 3WR shotgun formation as the pre-dominant plays every single week!

McDaniels is full of crap for trying to pretend he changes his offense to his opponent. You have admitted in this thread, and countless past threads, that he basically dares his opponents to beat the plays that they know are happening. That is the opposite of changing your offense, that is stubbornly using your own system and knowing your talent is good enough to usually beat the defense.

Weis didn't change the base formations all that much either. Are you freakin' kidding me? Most teams have standard base formations that they run out of.

Ok, I'm done. This getting silly. Just because the Pats had one primary shotgun formation doesn't mean they couldn't run a hundred different plays from it.