What we need next year: PASS RUSHING

[billdog3484]

a pass rusher would help at the OLB position. Suggs is a great name, but i cant see the ravens letting him go

 

[DaBruinz]

So him playing out of position is the reason why he couldn't generate a good pass rush even though he was the main OLB that rushed the passer? The year before, Colvin was the main rusher, but Vrabel managed more sacks even though he dropped back to cover. This year, AD dropped back to cover and Vrabel was the main rusher. The fact that Vrabel had MORE opportunities but less provided less pressure proves that he did lose a step. I'm sorry your in denial of this, but it was clear as day.

Condon - I am not the one confusing the situations here nor am I the one in denial. Your own example proved why Vrabel did less this year, yet you concoct a totally different conclusion than when you look at Colvin in the same situation.

In 2007, Vrabel played LOLB and Colvin played ROLB. As such, Colvin was going up against the opposing teams LTs while Vrabel was going up against the RT.

In 2008, Vrabel played ROLB and A. Thomas played LOLB to start the season. As such, Vrabel was not going up against LTs while A. Thomas was going against RTs.

How is it that you can accept Colvin's performance as the "main rusher" and give credit to Vrabel, yet, when Vrabel's in Colvin's role, you fault him because he's not performing to the same level he did the year before in a different role?

The fact is that Vrabel was being asked to do different things this year than last year. Comparing the performances based on just the stats is just wrong. I am not saying that Vrabel did fantastic this year. He didn't. But using last year as a comparison is comparing apples to oranges.

Also, Seymour had his best year in a while and was double teamed constantly. I don't know what you were watching but that's what I saw. I mean, what do you expect, a free run at the QB from our OLB all the time? I mean, even if Seymour wasn't double teamed, it's not like Vrabel was double teamed anyways.

Seymour wasn't double teamed nearly as much as you'd like people to believe. In fact, more often then not, Wilfork was drawing the double and Seymour was lined up facing off on the LG, one on one. This left the LT to focus on Vrabel. With right-handed QBs, the LT tends to be the better tackle. So, Vrabel was going up against better competition when playing against the left side of the O-line.

I don't know what your point was in arguing my post, but my point clearly went over your head.

Your point was actually quite mundane and poorly supported, in all reality. I was upfront with my argument in that you weren't evaluating Vrabel's performance accurately. What you fail to understand is that the LOLB and ROLB have different progressions they go through and different responsibilities based on the plays called. And, as a result of being on the opposite side of the line, Vrabel was now going up against better competition than he had the previous year. Just like Colvin was. And that will lead to results not as good as what was expected.

Something to keep in mind. When Bruschi moved from WILB (the postion he played from 2002-2005) to SILB (from 2005-current) There was a fall-off in his play. Everyone saw it. Some wrote it off to his stroke. Others wrote it off to him getting older. However, its a proven fact that many players, when they change positions, don't do well initially. Have you ever thought of why the Pats don't play Seymour at LDE instead of RDE? How about when Vrabel moved to WILB and Bruschi moved to SILB. Do you think Vrabel was as effective there as he was at OLB? I don't.

The same applies here. And yes, playing out of position like that CAN have a big affect on your play. Its not like Madden where you can flip flop your LBers around and they play just as well.

 

[mgteich]

Wheatley was playing well enough in preseason that most here expected him to start on Game One. The reality was that he was not as ready as we thought. Wilhite was more ready on Special Teams and as a nickel back. No can ever know how much an injury takes out of a player, but it seems that Wheatley should be on his way to being a reasonable contributer. Wilhite could surprise and be starter material. In any case, we've added two youngsters to Hobbs. We should be keeping 5-6 corners. I would expect Lew Sanders to be re-signed as a backup corner/safety, and perhaps Tank Williams as a backup safety (or another vet).

I expect we will bring in this season's jag free agent defensive backs as usual. However, we should be fine, even if none of this year's free agents is a serious contributer. There is certainly room for a draftee corner if Belichick finds value.

Not being a smararse...but I seriously did not notice how Wheatley was doing. Was he doing that well before thei njury? I am serious...if he was progressing well, we should be OK at corner...

 

[DaBruinz]

McGinest Colvin and Vrabel was pretty good.

Unfortunately Colvin got injured and McGinest was the only monster rusher we've had in that era.

Of course Bruschi used to get a lot of pressure up the middle too.

What made them good was that any one of them could rush the passer at any point in time. So they was a consistent pass rush because they weren't relying just on one person.

I mean, it was 12 years between double digit sacks for a Patriots LB. Prior to Vrabel's 12.5 last year, the last time the Pats had someone in double digit sacks was McGinest in 1995.

The consistency and the potential of the pass rush to come from anywhere in the LBer corps is what made it so deadly. For it to get to that again, the LB corp needs to get another LBer as versatile as Vrabel and have another in the wings behind Thomas.

 

[DocE]

Asante's cover skills? I think you mean his benefitting from the front seven's ability to put pressure on the QB. Samuel was a good player, but he didn't tackle well and he got burned as many times as he made a play.

Asante is a good cover corner, as he proved one again this season. Check out the pd's he had this year. I agree that he's not a great tackler.

[Tell me something, how long do you think it will take opposing defenses to figure out that your "sack specialist" is coming onto the field and that you'll be rushing the passer from that side? How long do you think it will take a QB to recognize that player, audible to a different play and light up the defense? I'm sorry, but I'd really like for someone to give an explanation as to how sending out that particular sub package wouldn't telegraph to the offense what was coming?

Who cares if the sack specialist is telegraphed? You don't think opposing offenses knew where Kevin Greene was coming from? How about Pat Swilling in his Saints days? Hugh Douglas? Dwight Freeney? John Abraham? All of these guys could be called a "sack specialist" and it was no mystery where they were coming from. Audibling to a different play because you know what outside linebacker is blitzing? Won't help you, especially if the defense is only rushing 4. When the Pats only send out only 1 or 2 defensive lineman doesn't it telegraph that they are vulnerable to the run? Yes, but the situations that they do it in are heavy pass situations. You want to try to gash them with a run for that 8 plus yards you need? Go ahead.

The Patriots have Mayo. They also have Warren. They could have Wilfork and Meriweather. They do have Adalius Thomas. Leadership isn't something that I am overly worried about at this point in time because I believe that they have the players developing already for that.

I don't think leadership is a skill that can be developed. A player either has the natural qualities of a leader or he doesn't. I know Vrabel, Bruschi, and Harrison have been great leaders both on the field and in the locker room.

 

[DarrylS]

You cannot have a good pass rush when you have a really crappy secondary.. when you need your olb's in coverage, and outside d lineman to continually hold the edge.. then the pass rush is not used as much and is not as effective.

The D backfield's abilities were severely underestimated and coupled with injuries to Harrison, Wheatley and the continued missed games of other CB's severely hampered it. As much as every one loves Mayo, he was a rookie and some of the long 3rd down passes to TE's may have been his responsibililty. Guyton looked as though he struggled in coverage.

The whole pass d has been compromised, and suspect it will be a serious off season focus. Pass rushing is part of the equation, but could be more effective if there was greater confidence in the secondary.