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What No One Is Talking About

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Disagree with the premise that the team lost focus or did things wrong in 2007. That was an incredible team that unfortunately peaked a little too soon and suffered a couple unfortunate injuries late (Brady and Neal) Winning the Super Bowl is difficult but that team was certainly in a much better position to win than the 2016 team was. Fortunately the refs called a crucial hold that took the Falcons out of FG range while in 2007 they did not on the Tyree play. Does that mean the team was constructed wrong? I don't think so. Manning made an incredible throw to Manningham in 2011. Gronk was gimpy. Stuff happens. Both those team (plus several others) were good enough to win it all but just came up short. While winning it all is ultimately what matters I am not one for creating the narrative that some of our teams lost focus or went off the rail because of a few plays. The Pats were not necessarily the best team every year but they never ceded "best franchise" to a different team at any point during this run. To me the Dynasty if 2001 - Present.
 
They have started the brainwashing already. The jags are about as good as the ravens super bowl team. Their pass rushes are like the giants but more ferocious. Not a single peep about our defense. They have the best dB tandem in the league. By the end of the week it will seem like we have no chance according to mediots haters. Their are a few that like us though.


well, that is what i figured. i am sure ryan clark and all the other jealous former players are warning eveyone that the pats are in trouble.

I had the zolak portion on yesterday and didn’t shut it off quite before mazz/felger
came on, but i figured they would be pushing the tomato can angle since 98.5/nesn/the globe are all connected. just pathetic. i shut it off immediately.
 
well, that is what i figured. i am sure ryan clark and all the other jealous former players are warning eveyone that the pats are in trouble.

I had the zolak portion on yesterday and didn’t shut it off quite before mazz/felger
came on, but i figured they would be pushing the tomato can angle since 98.5/nesn/the globe are all connected. just pathetic. i shut it off immediately.

One Man's War Against Patriot Hating Sports Media, Tony Romo, And A Global NFL Conspiracy To Move The Jaguars To London:

The Chris Stevenson Story.
 
Disagree with the premise that the team lost focus or did things wrong in 2007. That was an incredible team that unfortunately peaked a little too soon and suffered a couple unfortunate injuries late (Brady and Neal) Winning the Super Bowl is difficult but that team was certainly in a much better position to win than the 2016 team was. Fortunately the refs called a crucial hold that took the Falcons out of FG range while in 2007 they did not on the Tyree play. Does that mean the team was constructed wrong? I don't think so. Manning made an incredible throw to Manningham in 2011. Gronk was gimpy. Stuff happens. Both those team (plus several others) were good enough to win it all but just came up short. While winning it all is ultimately what matters I am not one for creating the narrative that some of our teams lost focus or went off the rail because of a few plays. The Pats were not necessarily the best team every year but they never ceded "best franchise" to a different team at any point during this run. To me the Dynasty if 2001 - Present.

Good points, but I do disagree.

In 2006, Goodell and the owners started to change rules to favor offenses, so BB and other wise GMs/Coaches, realized this is now a game of offensive attrition. Offense wins championsips now, IMO.

A lot of these playoff games end up in the high 20s, consistently, or more. So, you need a lot on offense, even with a HOF QB, and a good defense. The great defense concept does not always hold up. See Seattle and how they've built it. They had a small window, got 1 SB, but now watch the big fade as they got old, have bad contracts and now carry the 20 mil per year QB.

So, it's about depth and versatility within how you can play, and these 2014, 2016 and 2017 teams have that. In 2013 and 2015 , we might have, but the injuries were so large, there's not much you can do at that point, but those teams get big kudos for battling.

Since 2014, realy since 2010 into the Lockout. BB has managed to use the rookie cap to keep costs down, develop, sign and trade for key players, even in smaller roles, a lot better than what he was able to do from 2006-2012, for example. An obvious transition started in 2009 byb dealing Vrabel and then Seymour, with a rebuild in 2010 and 2011, and into a lot of draft picks used to build this.

So, in 2007, the D was OLD. Very old, but also very experienced. And, we know bout the predictability of the offense. It was basically all Moss/Welker since Week 6 in Dallas where a guy like Stallworth, was never really targeted again. The run game was an afterthought and Brady was throwing every week 45+ times, which in 2007, was unheard of.

So, I disagree that the teams were balanced and deep back then.

I think they're much more liable to morph and use the versatility on both sides of the ball, than what they could have used in 2007 or 2011. I mean, I liked the 2011 team more in some ways because they battled their balls off on D, knowing they were not that talented, rebuilding, had injury issues on top of it, but it felt like they would learn their lesson from SB 42, but they unfortunately didn't on offense.

Basically, my point is, BB has been even more brilliant as a GM since 2009/2010, as his built this, to the point we are in this position and can even talk about these things.

The JimmyG pick lighting a fire under Brady, was even more so a stroke of genius, too.

Keep in mind, Ted Thompson just got fired after years of being the Soup Du Jour GM of the decade, only winning 1 SB and fielding a horrible D for about 7 straight years, due to terrible drafts on defense.

Makes you appreciate how great BB is as the architect of this, and maybe acknowledging the 2007 and 2011 teams weren't quite as worthy as a SB winner as they could have been.
 
One Man's War Against Patriot Hating Sports Media, Tony Romo, And A Global NFL Conspiracy To Move The Jaguars To London:

The Chris Stevenson Story.

I don't think greed and money, knowing what the owners' goals are, or how Goodell hits his benchmarks to reach his bonuses, is a "conspiracy".

And, it's not my fault if you've been in a coma (or a basement with too many fantasy football rosters to manage).

Fantasy football, Facebook, Madden NFL video games, Ignorance and Delusion in life: The TB Helmet Story

PS Buffalo has an old stadium, too. Much older than Jax's. The only thing they have going for them is a good fanbase and pulling from the Toronto market, too. But, their situation is next and the stadium money ain't coming from the state. Just saying. Not sustainable just like Kroenke, Spanos and Davis just felt with their stadiums and why they moved. Greed is not good.
 
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I don't think greed and money, knowing what the owners' goals are, or how Goodell hits his benchmarks to reach his bonuses, is a "conspiracy".

And, it's not my fault if you've been in a coma (or a basement with too many fantasy football rosters to manage).

Fantasy football, Facebook, Madden NFL video games, Ignorance and Delusion in life: The TB Helmet Story

PS Buffalo has an old stadium, too. Much older than Jax's. The only thing they have going for them is a good fanbase and pulling from the Toronto market, too. But, they're situation is next and the stadium money ain't coming from the state. Just saying. Not sustainable just like Kroenke, Spanos and Davis just felt with their stadiums and why they moved. Greed is not good.

You literally said in a previous post that you believe there is a conspiracy where Goodell tells the refs to make certain calls in order to increase the perception of parity so that they can move the team to London. See: definition of "Conspiracy".

But relax man, I'm just messing around. You've been spamming the board with some pretty extreme takes the past week or so, you're gonna get some (extremely gentle) teasing about it. My suggestion is to take it in stride instead of lashing out. Angry Internet Guy is a really bad look.

(PS where did Facebook and Madden come from? I haven't played Madden since the '95 version where you could hit players after the play was over and injure them!)
 
You literally said in a previous post that you believe there is a conspiracy where Goodell tells the refs to make certain calls in order to increase the perception of parity so that they can move the team to London. See: definition of "Conspiracy".

But relax man, I'm just messing around. You've been spamming the board with some pretty extreme takes the past week or so, you're gonna get some (extremely gentle) teasing about it. My suggestion is to take it in stride instead of lashing out. Angry Internet Guy is a really bad look.

(PS where did Facebook and Madden come from? I haven't played Madden since the '95 version where you could hit players after the play was over and injure them!)

How is Goodell and the NFL expecting certain things to be called a certain way, a "conspiracy"? It's called their expectation of calling things a certain way, which may come from a rash of phone calls of other owners demanding it.
We have evidence of owners demanding he do things like cheat our team from framejobs, so yes. We know this. It's how they operate, not a conspiracy.

Business initiatives and expanding are not "conspiracies".
 
How is Goodell and the NFL expecting certain things to be called a certain way, a "conspiracy"? It's called their expectation of calling things a certain way, which may come from a rash of phone calls of other owners demanding it.
We have evidence of owners demanding he do things like cheat our team from framejobs, so yes. We know this. It's how they operate, not a conspiracy.

Business initiatives and expanding are not "conspiracies".

Sigh...

"Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful."

Subbing in the specifics, "Group" refers to "Goodell and the NFL" and "something unlawful" refers to rigging what is supposed to be fair play.

Note this is different from Deflategate; we are specifically talking about calls the refs make during the game, which is what you asserted the other day.

"Secret plan" is the case because there has never been a published report of Goodell telling the refs to call the game in a manner that would alter the outcome. Any accusation of such is purely speculation and inference on your part.

I might add if this were found to be the case, it would bring down the whole league as we know it. Think of how much damage the Donaghy scandal did to the NBA, and that was just one referee, not the league front office. And again, I don't understand why you watch the NFL if you think this is actually going on.
 
It will be a miracle if the Patriots can keep it within 4 TDs or so.[/QUOTE]

Then if the Pats win, the narrative changes to talking about the many deficiencies of that defense, the resulting conclusion being that the Pats didn't really beat a good D. Whatever, it's part of being a Pat fan, putting up with all the bs from the talking heads and fans of other teams who feel the need to share their misery.
 
Sigh...

"Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful."

Subbing in the specifics, "Group" refers to "Goodell and the NFL" and "something unlawful" refers to rigging what is supposed to be fair play.

Note this is different from Deflategate; we are specifically talking about calls the refs make during the game, which is what you asserted the other day.

"Secret plan" is the case because there has never been a published report of Goodell telling the refs to call the game in a manner that would alter the outcome. Any accusation of such is purely speculation and inference on your part.

I might add if this were found to be the case, it would bring down the whole league as we know it. Think of how much damage the Donaghy scandal did to the NBA, and that was just one referee, not the league front office. And again, I don't understand why you watch the NFL if you think this is actually going on.

well, i know for a fact that after the gb/seahawks game at the start of 2012, where there were replacemen refs, an unnamed replacement ref in an si article said they were told to call the int play the way they did in that game with that controversial td in the end zone.

so, there is clearly proof of “nfl officiating guidance” that goes on.

if you don’t think there are calls placed to goodell and his minions like blandino don’t instruct refs to call things a certain way before games, you have not been paying attention the last 10+ years when all the funny business started.
 
I don't know what the technical definition of a dynasty is, but I'd say that it didn't stop despite the 10 year title gap. We were competitive every year of that stretch (arguably except 2008) and made the Super Bowl twice. We were the team everyone wanted to knock off. We had Brady and Belichick as the constants during that run (which is needed for a dynasty).

Just because the titles aren't more evenly spread out doesn't mean that you can't group this whole run under one dynasty, which is an almost 20 year period that has been singularly defined by the success of the New England Patriots.

This is how I feel, it's been continuous for the whole time. They went 18-1 in 2007 and went to the super bowl, that's still a pretty good second place. 2008 they were only the second team to ever get 11 wins and not make the playoffs, so I wouldn't consider that a terrible year by the standards of 31 other NFL teams.
 
Sigh...

"Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful."

Subbing in the specifics, "Group" refers to "Goodell and the NFL" and "something unlawful" refers to rigging what is supposed to be fair play.

Note this is different from Deflategate; we are specifically talking about calls the refs make during the game, which is what you asserted the other day.

"Secret plan" is the case because there has never been a published report of Goodell telling the refs to call the game in a manner that would alter the outcome. Any accusation of such is purely speculation and inference on your part.

I might add if this were found to be the case, it would bring down the whole league as we know it. Think of how much damage the Donaghy scandal did to the NBA, and that was just one referee, not the league front office. And again, I don't understand why you watch the NFL if you think this is actually going on.


have you seen goodell lie outright to the nfl customer, be caught, and then go into court doubling down like i have for 10 years?

he is a lunatic filled with greed and appealed his deflategate loss based on his bastardization of article 46 where he announced he can lie, cheat, defame and steal money if he so pleases.

no other commissioner does this. again, he’s a lunatic willing to do anything to keep his job, as the owners treat the nfl customers like fools.

and the league
absolutely might come
crashing down in the name of greed..the raiders are now in vegas and the jags are going to london...not to be rude, but have you been asleep?

500 million lost in 2 seasons for tv revenue. the nfl, since the merger, has never lost money before. ever

they may have flattened out in the early 90s, but no true revenue losses like we are seeing now.

wild card weekend ratings were down as
were last week’s games....
 
This is how I feel, it's been continuous for the whole time. They went 18-1 in 2007 and went to the super bowl, that's still a pretty good second place. 2008 they were only the second team to ever get 11 wins and not make the playoffs, so I wouldn't consider that a terrible year by the standards of 31 other NFL teams.

was talking about how the teams were built and why these teams are technically better built than even the 2007 one
 
Most teams cling to a certain high level of performance by building up a cap hell in the future or by hanging on to old guys for the sake of extra continuity, and then a re-build becomes a total meltdown rebuild.

We have done neither, just a steady, rolling re-supply of young-ish talent supplemented by capable vets on reasonable contracts.
 
Chris I'll go back to your OP since we're gonna have to agree to disagree on what the definition of a conspiracy is and that Goodell is actively telling the refs to call games a certain way. It was a good OP and I took it off track with The Chris Stevenson Story.

I've seen it for years now, where some of our fans seemingly only care about Brady and stats, and that 2007 serves as a symbolic turning point of where this team went wrong. The over-analyzing, the finesse, predictable offense, and the idea that it truly is an offensive/QB era, but not to the point you ignore all the basics and fundamentals that the Football Gods want from a football game.

There is a line there. This team has all the components the 2007 and 2011 teams didn't really have, each of those tough losses for totally different reasons, but the same reason on offense, unfortunately.

I thought the 2007 team was exquisitely built. They identified what went wrong in 2006 and fixed it with amazing results. That team played incredible fundamental football, don't know why you think that's not the case. Our O-line was superb right up until the last game. Brady had all the time in the world to launch those bombs. Our defense was also great, everyone forgets that. You could argue that losing Sammy Morris (another fundamentally sound player) actually was what did us in.

This year's team has a flaw where for most of the year Brady's main weapon aside from Gronk (who they haven't 'taken out of the garage' at all this year except against Pitt) was Cooks who is most effective when he's running deep routes, which requires time to develop. The O-line wasn't nearly as good at protecting the QB which resulted in the highest sack total we've seen in some time (I think) especially earlier on. It wasn't until Dion Lewis asserted himself the past month that we became multi-dimensional. I think having Burkhead back, and hopefully Amendola continuing his strong play, will help with this, getting us back to what we do best which is quick passes that negate the pass rush, along with more Lewis and play action.

Defense is another story if you're talking about team building; I really like the Defense this year, especially how the front 7 have come around, and agree with you there. But to say that the 2007 team went away from sound football / good fundamentals is inaccurate IMO. That team changed the NFL forever, good article about it here:

How Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and the 2007 New England Patriots Changed Football Forever
 
Chris I'll go back to your OP since we're gonna have to agree to disagree on what the definition of a conspiracy is and that Goodell is actively telling the refs to call games a certain way. It was a good OP and I took it off track with The Chris Stevenson Story.



I thought the 2007 team was exquisitely built. They identified what went wrong in 2006 and fixed it with amazing results. That team played incredible fundamental football, don't know why you think that's not the case. Our O-line was superb right up until the last game. Brady had all the time in the world to launch those bombs. Our defense was also great, everyone forgets that. You could argue that losing Sammy Morris (another fundamentally sound player) actually was what did us in.

This year's team has a flaw where for most of the year Brady's main weapon aside from Gronk (who they haven't 'taken out of the garage' at all this year except against Pitt) was Cooks who is most effective when he's running deep routes, which requires time to develop. The O-line wasn't nearly as good at protecting the QB which resulted in the highest sack total we've seen in some time (I think) especially earlier on. It wasn't until Dion Lewis asserted himself the past month that we became multi-dimensional. I think having Burkhead back, and hopefully Amendola continuing his strong play, will help with this, getting us back to what we do best which is quick passes that negate the pass rush, along with more Lewis and play action.

Defense is another story if you're talking about team building; I really like the Defense this year, especially how the front 7 have come around, and agree with you there. But to say that the 2007 team went away from sound football / good fundamentals is inaccurate IMO. That team changed the NFL forever, good article about it here:

How Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and the 2007 New England Patriots Changed Football Forever

jim johnson had the blueprint on em late in the year, and the pats never adjusted for whatever reason. the whole offense was staring down moss and welker over and over.
 
Most teams cling to a certain high level of performance by building up a cap hell in the future or by hanging on to old guys for the sake of extra continuity, and then a re-build becomes a total meltdown rebuild.

We have done neither, just a steady, rolling re-supply of young-ish talent supplemented by capable vets on reasonable contracts.


exactly...excellent post
 
Nothing personal, but if anyone who is a fan or who comes to these boards think they have some magical power to control what happens in games, well, that's sort of sad.
So, you’re telling me that I shouldn’t wear my lucky boxers, socks, and pants that are missing the drawstring and are now held up by the same broken “chip clip” anymore?

Are you some sort of madman? What are you trying to do to us?
 
When I watch NFL games am amazed at the lack of quality coaching in all phases of the game(watch other teams clock management a blatant example).. the Patriots are heads and shoulders above the rest in this department. Their preparation, staying focused and situational football makes helps them maintain their standard of excellence.. it helps that we have #12 as well. Kudos have to be given to Patricia and his crew that despite the never ending discussion of whether our D is good or sucks, we score more points than the other team most of the time.

From my view the dynasty has been consistent since 2001.. a few bumps in the road, but overall this team has been either on top or very close to it in this time frame.. I am lucky to be a Pats fan, never thought it would turn out this way after the crazy, topsy turvy first 40 years of this franchise.

Under BB the Pats are 214 W's and 74 L's.. a .743 winning percentage, this is unheard of in any sport over this period or time.. then there is the 26 & 9 play off record during this time period which is remarkably the same winning percentage as our regular season .743.

Then there are the 7 consecutive AFC Championships..
 
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