NFL GAME DAY DISCUSSION Week 2 "Other Games" Thread

[1960Pats]

would be really interested.

i am really intrigued by marvin lewis records. never had a HoF QB still had winning record. bill has a 84- 103 win record without brady.

I didn't have him on my list but I added him. I decided to call Carson Palmer a top QB and took his stats out. That leaves Marvin with an 84-72 regular season (54%) and 0-5 in the playoffs (his playoff total is 0-7).

 

[1960Pats]

I think that was me.

You're a mench!

Thanks.

It was a good question. When I started looking them up I was surprised at how many HC's never had anything but a top QB. It's also difficult to decide what's a top QB and what isn't. Should I count McNabb's stats? He was pretty good.

 

[signbabybrady]

Thanks.

It was a good question. When I started looking them up I was surprised at how many HC's never had anything but a top QB. It's also difficult to decide what's a top QB and what isn't. Should I count McNabb's stats? He was pretty good.

I knew the number was decent that's why I've never bothered to do it.

In the absence of 1 QB you could just take the best player. For Parcells as an example maybe that's LT.

 

[KCSVEN]

See attached

Weaknesses​

• 
  
• Inefficient throwing motion creates inconsistencies in accuracy.
• 
  
• Receivers had to chase too many intermediate throws into the turf
• Leaves the ball behind crossing routes and RPO targets.

Drake Maye Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

www.nfl.com

Same analyst report on Bryce Young:

Bryce Young Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Easiest analysis of a college QB ever was that Bryce Young had less than 10% chance of being a quality NFL starter. If someone thought otherwise on that I will never trust their opinion on a QB.
I guarantee I did more work on Maye than Lance Zierlein, who I respect overall but guys that rate every prospect every year cannot compare to someone who spends all their time solely on QB's.

When I started this, I looked at every QB analyst out there to see what they thought of Bryce Young and then try to figure out the few that had it right how they did it. Seriously, that is where I started in my learning process, who got Bryce Young right, not many, which is shocking.

I also trust a coach that worked with Brady, Manning and Maye to know what he's talking about better than myself and Zierlein. Just so happens he agrees with me, and did so after I did my analysis, so would have had to reassess everything if he did not.

 

[upstater1]

A couple of quick hits:

- Trevor Lawrence is proof you either need to hit an absolute homerun or bust out on a high first round QB picks. The fact that Lawrence is a top 3 paid QB in this league is a joke. He is a good, not great QB. He has far too many games like yesterday. The Jags were stupid not to wait until Lawrence finished out his rookie contract knowing they had a fifth year option before signing the guy. But they probably would have had to give him top dollar anyway.
- Baker Mayfield is proof of the theory that bad teams ruin first round draft pick QBs. The guy is finally starting to live up to expectations a half dozen or so years after being drafted and on his fifth team. He has finally found a home where they put him in a position to succeed.
- On the flip side, I think the Bears may be ruining Caleb Williams like they ruined Justin Fields. I know that Williams was believed to be more NFL ready than Drake Maye, but Williams is showing he was not ready for prime time. He would have benefitted from sitting and learning a bit. If he has more games like yesterday, he could be another Zach Wilson. So far he has looked more like Wilson (running around trying to make the big play and paying for it) than Patrick Mahomes.

I don't buy this theory that players get ruined. You can indeed improve.

The fact is, Mayfield had a good arm. And (this should alarm folks) Mayfield started well, but then the league caught up with him -- AND his offensive coordinator the last 2 years in Cleveland was...

... Alex van Pelt. So if Mayfield was ruined by van Pelt, that doesn't sound too good for the Patriots.

In 2020, Mayfield threw for 26 TDs and 8 INTs while throwing to Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry. Next year he was throwing to 2 TEs in Njoku and Austin Hooper.

That was the year they decided NOT to renew him and went with Deshaun Watson instead.

Whoever made those decisions over there, it says very little about Mayfield. Mayfield was actually pretty good.

 

[1960Pats]

NFL Gameday is a great way to see every game's scoring plays.
I was pretty tough on Baker Mayfield in the past but maybe the Browns gave up too soon on him.
How about that weird NY-Was game? The Giants get 3 TD with no extra points and lose 21-18 to 7 FGs.
Is the running game making a comeback? I hope so.
The Jets may not suck now but the odds are that they will.
The Lions are overrated. They're the Jets of the NFC but without the SB win.
Kickers are kicking longer and more accurately.

 

[TheRainMaker]

- Trevor Lawrence is proof you either need to hit an absolute homerun or bust out on a high first round QB picks. The fact that Lawrence is a top 3 paid QB in this league is a joke. He is a good, not great QB. He has far too many games like yesterday. The Jags were stupid not to wait until Lawrence finished out his rookie contract knowing they had a fifth year option before signing the guy. But they probably would have had to give him top dollar anyway.

So far, this is looking like the disaster I predicted. Contracts given out to players like him was why Dak was able to get $60M. But the fact that QB's keep surpassing Mahomes value is really bad for the league.

- Baker Mayfield is proof of the theory that bad teams ruin first round draft pick QBs. The guy is finally starting to live up to expectations a half dozen or so years after being drafted and on his fifth team. He has finally found a home where they put him in a position to succeed.
- On the flip side, I think the Bears may be ruining Caleb Williams like they ruined Justin Fields. I know that Williams was believed to be more NFL ready than Drake Maye, but Williams is showing he was not ready for prime time. He would have benefitted from sitting and learning a bit. If he has more games like yesterday, he could be another Zach Wilson. So far he has looked more like Wilson (running around trying to make the big play and paying for it) than Patrick Mahomes.

Mayfield statistically really wasn't as bad as I remember, so I wouldn't compare him to Fields, Wilson or other high draft picks that turned out to be busts. The Bears should've canned their HC and got an offensive mind from the Shanahan tree or Ben Johnson from Detroit to coach the #1 pick. Williams doesn't look ready at all. And LOL at Keenan Allen already taking games off.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't buy this theory that players get ruined. You can indeed improve.

The fact is, Mayfield had a good arm. And (this should alarm folks) Mayfield started well, but then the league caught up with him -- AND his offensive coordinator the last 2 years in Cleveland was...

... Alex van Pelt. So if Mayfield was ruined by van Pelt, that doesn't sound too good for the Patriots.

In 2020, Mayfield threw for 26 TDs and 8 INTs while throwing to Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry. Next year he was throwing to 2 TEs in Njoku and Austin Hooper.

That was the year they decided NOT to renew him and went with Deshaun Watson instead.

Whoever made those decisions over there, it says very little about Mayfield. Mayfield was actually pretty good.

Mayfield came into the league in 2018. Van Pelt wasn't in Cleveland until 2020. Mayfield's best season in Cleveland was 2020. He was uneven to bad most of the rest of the time he was there. You really cannot blame that on Van Pelt.

 

[upstater1]

Mayfield came into the league in 2018. Van Pelt wasn't in Cleveland until 2020. Mayfield's best season in Cleveland was 2020. He was uneven to bad most of the rest of the time he was there. You really cannot blame that on Van Pelt.

I wasn't blaming it on van Pelt. I was saying this idea he was ruined is questionable at best.

After all, if his best season was 2020, and he left Cleveland afterward while van Pelt was still there, who ruined him? It's either van Pelt or no one.

He was also 27 TDs and 14 INTs as a rookie. Sophomore slump, just like Brady. Then a really good year 3.

So, who ruined him?

It's safer to probably say the players did not like him or his demeanor, and that his play on the field hasn't really changed at all.

Lastly, when you go down to Tampa and you get to QB with superstar WRs, you'll have generally good results.

 

[farn]

>Look at first read
>If its open, throw it
>If its not open, run around
>After some running around, find a random guy
>Throw it to that guy

The Caleb experience

And yet he might still be ahead of B Young, who threw for 84 yards despite very little pressure.

(AND Dalton is replacing him. In 2024 !)

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I wasn't blaming it on van Pelt. I was saying this idea he was ruined is questionable at best.

After all, if his best season was 2020, and he left Cleveland afterward while van Pelt was still there, who ruined him? It's either van Pelt or no one.

He was also 27 TDs and 14 INTs as a rookie. Sophomore slump, just like Brady. Then a really good year 3.

So, who ruined him?

It's safer to probably say the players did not like him or his demeanor, and that his play on the field hasn't really changed at all.

Lastly, when you go down to Tampa and you get to QB with superstar WRs, you'll have generally good results.

I don’t think he ever really was ruined, they just miscalculated when his rookie contract was up. The only year he played in Cleveland after 2020 was 2021 and if i remember right he was pretty banged up that year throughout so it was a bit of a down season . But he wasn’t like mac jones bad. Then Cleveland has to make the tough choice of do you pay him an enormous amount of money or start over. They chose wrong but its honestly a tough position to be in after year 4 when the qb isnt bad at all but hasn’t really knocked your socks off either.

The next year he went to a terrible Carolina team and didn’t do well. Then he went to tampa.

 

[TommyD4207]

Mayfield came into the league in 2018. Van Pelt wasn't in Cleveland until 2020. Mayfield's best season in Cleveland was 2020. He was uneven to bad most of the rest of the time he was there. You really cannot blame that on Van Pelt.

He brought that decrepit franchise to their first playoff appearance in a decade, and played through a shoulder injury the entire next season in 2021. Cleveland thanked him by cutting his ass, and bringing in Deshaun Watson. I don't blame it on Van Pelt, I blame it on that hilariously bad ownership, and then he was traded to an equally bad franchise (as we've seen), and was average on a terrible team. He ends up on another bad team where he was only a replacement, and played pretty well. Then he goes to Tampa and is great.

The people who buried Baker Mayfield are the same people who carry Mac Jones' water to this day.

 

[upstater1]

He brought that decrepit franchise to their first playoff appearance in a decade, and played through a shoulder injury the entire next season in 2021. Cleveland thanked him by cutting his ass, and bringing in Deshaun Watson. I don't blame it on Van Pelt, I blame it on that hilariously bad ownership, and then he was traded to an equally bad franchise (as we've seen), and was average on a terrible team. He ends up on another bad team where he was only a replacement, and played pretty well. Then he goes to Tampa and is great.

The people who buried Baker Mayfield are the same people who carry Mac Jones' water to this day.

I believe that we will one day find out that it was all for the better.

Drake Maye is going to be a superstar and he wouldn't have been here if not for the "fortunate" decision to stick with Mac Nathan Peterman Jones.

One day we'll look back on this period and say that Matt Patricia becoming OC is the same as Mo Lewis knocking Bledsoe from the game.

 

[TommyD4207]

I believe that we will one day find out that it was all for the better.

Drake Maye is going to be a superstar and he wouldn't have been here if not for the "fortunate" decision to stick with Mac Nathan Peterman Jones.

One day we'll look back on this period and say that Matt Patricia becoming OC is the same as Mo Lewis knocking Bledsoe from the game.

I really hope you're right. Because seeing what packages they were offered for their pick, and knowing they could have had Joe Alt at left tackle, instead of a scrap heap guard playing tackle on his last legs in the league - and picked a QB in 2025 (or, gasp, signed Baker Mayfield in the offseason with a real offer), this could be potentially disasterous, setting the franchise back a decade.

This defense isn't going to be great forever.

 

[KCSVEN]

Did an All-22 review of the prominent rookies:
Overall QB's were slightly better than week 1.
Caleb Williams: I still believe Williams will be a mid-level Franchise QB like Trevor Lawrence. No way it happens with Shane Waldron as OC. Also, the Line stinks, worse than the Pats, or we will find out when Pats play Houston. He still has a terrible deep ball, threw a hospital ball, made some dumb decisions on the scrambles as he is prone to do. If he has a little bit of time he makes some good accurate throws, rarely has the time. Better accuracy on middle depth throws this week. Is not close to a Mahomes like playmaker, is short, makes bad decisions, crap deep ball and we knew that from college. When you watch him throw some balls it is an NFL arm and accuracy except for deep balls. They need an OC that doesn't suck and a line that doesn't suck and Williams probably won't suck, right now he does but only about 25% is his fault.

Jayden Daniels: I think Daniels is kind of maxed out with all the games he's played. He played a Bo Nix game with short stuff all day long. He actually accurately threw all but 1 on the short ball throws, improvement there. Deep balls continue to be bad. Seems to have a good throw on slants, one of the easier throws for a QB but he does it well. Anything with difficulty or arm strength he struggles, needs to put it all into the throw. Great runner, but at least twice, if he looked up when he started to run, he had TD's. He won't look up, defense just abandoned the WR even before he crossed the line. Mainly a 1 read and run guy. He's so dangerous running he should take advantage and look up when he starts to run. Had a couple mid-level throws that were nice. He needs to use his run threat to help his lack of passing ability.

Bo Nix: There were 16 times I noted "short" on his passes, Terrible INT in EZ. Missed an open deep ball by 5 yards. Had 2 drops did not help him. He looked more comfortable but still could not accurately throw past 5 yards, he hit 1 or 2 but missed more often than hit hen he went "not short". Slight improvement but just nothing to think he can be a starter long term.

A QB's main job is to pass, only Williams of the 3 even shows an inkling of that ability at an NFL level, so far.

Marvin Harrison and Malik Nabors: Nabors, despite the late drop, just dominates. I love the guy, true #1 WR. Harrison had a much better game, how could he not. Good catch, awesome throw on first TD. That's what you want. He was open several times, Murray did not look his way or made a bad throw to him. As great as Murray is playing, he still has some accuracy issues. Yet he threw a couple incredible dimes as well.
Harrison Second TD, was a fake screen left, run MHJ across the field, easy pass and catch but nice finish. Anyone could have rum that route and caught it, the last 5 yards was great though. He seems to make a ton of plays against zone and not so much against man, still slow offline of scrimmage, tho seemed faster in the field this week than last. I feel like Gonzalez could easily take him out 1 on 1. Rams defense was terrible which helped him. He was good, not great, other than the 1st TD catch and the finish on the easy TD catch. Improvement, but looks nothing like Nabors level yet. Need to see Harrison do better against man to man. If Giants have #7 and we have #1, I wonder if we could just trade 1 overall for Nabors, let them keep 7.......I digress

-Non-rookie notes, Stroud is fun to watch, but the OC is phenomenal, I can see why he is a desired HC. Mike McDaniel, Andy Reid, Bobby Slowik, in the games I watch they are just excellent, creative and top Coordinators. Stroud still has his accuracy issues pop up, and the OC makes it so much easier for him but he's also a playmaker.
This pass play, not a screen pass, resulted in a rollout 30-yard throw to the sideline on a dime! Not many QB's can do that.
IT'S NOT A VIDEO, JUST A SCREEN SHOT OF THE PASS RUSHERS.

 

[Pape]

easy to spot Judon...

we should have paid him...

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

What an incredibly stupid ass decision to pass up 3 there.

I may or may not have the eagles kicker on my fantasy team

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Why is Belichick and Patricia there.... greeting Nick Foles?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

BB torches Arthur Blank on the manningcast, LOL, I guess he no longer wants the Falcons job.

 

[signbabybrady]

BB torches Arthur Blank on the manningcast, LOL, I guess he no longer wants the Falcons job.

What did he say?