Waters' Locker Cleaned Out (Update: Reports Nameplate Taken Down)

[ATippett56]

I believe that the NYJ threw the fines out in the Revis situation a couple of summers ago, when he finally showed up in the last couple of weeks/week or so.

I thought Rex and Tanny flew down to visit Revis at his home and begged him to come back?

 

[Snake Eyes]

How about consequences like de-motivating the rest of the guys that were actually IN camp? How do you think they'd react to a guy skipping out all August, then coming in and getting paid MORE? Why bother even showing up?

If they're not better than that guy who skipped training camp they don't have any legitimate reason to gripe. I don't think the 07 Giants were worse off with Strahan skipping training camp, it meant he had fresh legs and was in a better position to help them win.

 

[supafly]

The offensive line depth at the interior positions is currently in question due to the status of Mankins' knee and McDonald's shoulder. Whether Mankins' knee can hold up for 60+ snaps is certainly a topic open to debate. In addition, Donald Thomas is a downgrade from Logan Mankins.

Furthermore, the New England Patriots currently have eight offensive lineman on the 53 man roster.

Other than TE and CB, I would rate the interior OG/C as one of the strongest depthwise positions on the team.

The talent may not be as great as we want it to be, but we have the following:

--Mankins
--Connelly
--Wendell
--Thomas
--McDonald

Considering that we have 5 players out of 8 in the interior positions, I would personally see it as having adequate depth.

There's also kid we cut this week and Koppen as potential replacements if positions need to be switched around, so they are even deep in the sense that they are prepared in case of multiple injuries. I'm not necessarily arguing talent, I'm speaking of depth.

 

[prentice mccray]

To clarify the "excused vs. unexcused" his absence was described at minicamp as excused. When asked at the start of training camp, he indicated it was the same situation.

As for the fines, they aren't taken out immediately. If the player reports, any fines that have accrued would begin to be taken, I assume, from his weekly game checks. When or if the team switched from excused to unexcused I don't know. I'd assume they had a report date in mind as opposed to, "Whenever you get around to it, Brian." They can excuse the fines if they desire.

Whatever pay cut is in the offing - and I'm not positive it's even what we would call a classic pay cut or one that's got contingencies attached - he likely would have to agree to before reporting.

Tom

And to take it one step further, I'm not even 100% sure that he came right out and actually said this at the beginning of TC.

I think it was implied and assumed by some of the sportswriters and forum posters, who likely thought it was the same situation as OTAs.

For all we know, Belichick may have expected Waters there a long time ago, and may have only had a deal in place to miss a small portion of TC in the beginning.

I certainly doubt that Waters had the green light as so many have said, to sit home throughout the entire camp. I could see a portion in the beginning, but not more than 1/2 way through camp, that never made much sense to me, but so many assured everyone that it was okay it was hard to feel negative about it.

 

[supafly]

I thought Rex and Tanny flew down to visit Revis at his home and begged him to come back?

That sounds about right, I wouldn't be surprised, but I'm just strictly talking about waiving fines as a bargaining chip.

In the case of many holdouts (using Revis as my example) the team has the right to waive the accumulated fines. In the case of Revis, I am pretty sure that is what happened to try and sweeten the deal for his return back.

 

[supafly]

To clarify the "excused vs. unexcused" his absence was described at minicamp as excused. When asked at the start of training camp, he indicated it was the same situation.

As for the fines, they aren't taken out immediately. If the player reports, any fines that have accrued would begin to be taken, I assume, from his weekly game checks. When or if the team switched from excused to unexcused I don't know. I'd assume they had a report date in mind as opposed to, "Whenever you get around to it, Brian." They can excuse the fines if they desire.

Whatever pay cut is in the offing - and I'm not positive it's even what we would call a classic pay cut or one that's got contingencies attached - he likely would have to agree to before reporting.

Tom

Thank you for taking time for a response.

It is pretty much what I thought. I certainly did not remember an 'excused' clarification from Belichick himself.

I also figured that the team certainly reserves the right to withdraw the fines, if they so choose to do. Almost always, that would mean a resolution to the dispute in a postive way; in this case, that would likely symbolize Waters' return.

 

[ATippett56]

Other than TE and CB, I would rate the interior OG/C as one of the strongest depthwise positions on the team.

The New England Patriots currently have five defensive tackles and six defensive ends on the 53 man roster.

The talent may not be as great as we want it to be, but we have the following:

--Mankins
--Connelly
--Wendell
--Thomas
--McDonald

The talent issue is a consideration in the Brian Waters debate for some posters on the PatsFans message board.

 

[supafly]

The New England Patriots currently have five defensive tackles and six defensive ends on the 53 man roster.

The talent issue is a consideration in the Brian Waters debate for some posters on the PatsFans message board.

Right, so add DL to the list also then. It would go DL, TE, OG/C, and CB.

I'm not debating the talent level, I am saying that the position is fine depth wise.

I understand the worry, and share in it myself, just not as much.

 

[prentice mccray]

No problem.

My take is that they've been exceptionally accommodating to a player who has shown no inclination to return and has cold feet about leaving home. The reasons for his not wanting to leave have been quietly alluded to and I think it's wise to tread lightly on questioning his commitment to football too strongly because of that. Nobody's indicated if it's a family illness or some other dynamic but a wide berth has been given.

But the fact he's past the point where he was expected to come in - clearly - means they're at peace with moving on.

I've gotten indications from multiple people that the notion of a "pay cut" are too simple. And that's not hammering Jeff Howe. He's reporting what he's been told. Unfortunately, the backstory is too vague from both sides to figure out if either one is the bad guy in this or if there even is one.

Thank you for taking time for a response.

It is pretty much what I thought. I certainly did not remember an 'excused' clarification from Belichick himself.

I also figured that the team certainly reserves the right to withdraw the fines, if they so choose to do. Almost always, that would mean a resolution to the dispute in a postive way; in this case, that would likely symbolize Waters' return.

 

[ATippett56]

I understand the worry, and share in it myself, just not as much.

The proficiency of the 2012-13 New England Patriots offense may boil down to the health of Mankins and Vollmer, especially after all the wide receiver and tight end transactions since the official start of the off-season back in March.

At least the "Trade Welker" and 'Cut Edelman" threads have ceased.

 

[supafly]

The proficiency of the 2012-13 New England Patriots offense may boil down to the health of Mankins and Vollmer, especially after all the wide receiver and tight end transactions since the official start of the off-season back in March.

At least the "Trade Welker" and 'Cut Edelman" threads have ceased.

There was a "Trade Brady for a 1st rd pick/Matt Barkley" thread the other day.

 

[supafly]

I've gotten indications from multiple people that the notion of a "pay cut" are too simple.

I just wanted to bold this for those who still do not understand and are somehow finding their way to blame the team.

I wouldn't understand why it would make sense for Bill Belichick all of a sudden to go out and just demand a pay cut/choose to weaken the team from a guy who performed at a high level and made the probowl, but if that is what some want to think--to each his own. Common sense seems to sway in the other direction though.

I certainly agree that there is just not enough information to make any assumptions either way as to who may be more to blame, and there is much more to the story.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I just wanted to bold this for those who still do not understand and are somehow finding their way to blame the team.

I wouldn't understand why it would make sense for Bill Belichick all of a sudden to go out and just demand a pay cut/choose to weaken the team from a guy who performed at a high level and made the probowl, but if that is what some want to think--to each his own. Common sense seems to sway in the other direction though.

I certainly agree that there is just not enough information to make any assumptions either way as to who may be more to blame, and there is much more to the story.

Also for those who want to blame Brian Waters, we dont know what we dont know, only time will tell.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No problem.

My take is that they've been exceptionally accommodating to a player who has shown no inclination to return and has cold feet about leaving home. The reasons for his not wanting to leave have been quietly alluded to and I think it's wise to tread lightly on questioning his commitment to football too strongly because of that. Nobody's indicated if it's a family illness or some other dynamic but a wide berth has been given.

But the fact he's past the point where he was expected to come in - clearly - means they're at peace with moving on.

I've gotten indications from multiple people that the notion of a "pay cut" are too simple. And that's not hammering Jeff Howe. He's reporting what he's been told. Unfortunately, the backstory is too vague from both sides to figure out if either one is the bad guy in this or if there even is one.

There are lots of contradictions out there. In the Bedard/SMY summary they contradict themselves claiming there was an understanding between he and Bill about not reporting for camp back when he signed the deal and yet somehow the fines are automatic...
Like you and Jeff it all depends on the sources. Like that one you had on Brady's ACL that time...vs. that time they were screwing with his signing bonus.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I just wanted to bold this for those who still do not understand and are somehow finding their way to blame the team.

I wouldn't understand why it would make sense for Bill Belichick all of a sudden to go out and just demand a pay cut/choose to weaken the team from a guy who performed at a high level and made the probowl, but if that is what some want to think--to each his own. Common sense seems to sway in the other direction though.

I certainly agree that there is just not enough information to make any assumptions either way as to who may be more to blame, and there is much more to the story.

Too simple isn't a denial that a pay cut wasn't asked for. This team has always had it's own way of spinning contractual terms. Just ask Wes. His two year $16M offer was really a 3 year $18.5M offer... You could ask Logan too. Or lots of guys for that matter. They offered to make Adam the highest paid kicker in the league on a year to year basis, only if he slipped on the soap the next day getting out of the shower they were on the hook for nothing. That is why he landed in Indy where they guaranteed him $7.5M on a 5 year deal.

I wasn't kidding last week when I said Brady better watch his back. Mallet may not be nearly as good, but he's younger and cheaper.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There was a "Trade Brady for a 1st rd pick/Matt Barkley" thread the other day.

Ever wonder how those things get started? LOL

 

[Joker]

I wasn't kidding last week when I said Brady better watch his back. Mallet may not be nearly as good, but he's younger and cheaper.

wait a minute..is THIS supposed to be serious?????????????????????

that is exactly the sort of a comment a JET FAN would make.

 

[prentice mccray]

Awww, mo...you're like a terrier with a chew toy on that. Someday we'll hash it out and you'll say..."Realllly..."

There are lots of contradictions out there. In the Bedard/SMY summary they contradict themselves claiming there was an understanding between he and Bill about not reporting for camp back when he signed the deal and yet somehow the fines are automatic...
Like you and Jeff it all depends on the sources. Like that one you had on Brady's ACL that time...vs. that time they were screwing with his signing bonus.

 

[ATippett56]

that is exactly the sort of a comment a JET FAN would make.

Never!

RamRodRay: Mark "unlimited ceiling" Sanchez

McGinley: Sanchize the Franchise

Carlton: It's all Schotty's fault!

Hugh Douglas: Sanchez NFL MVP!

 

[Joker]

where's my twenty bucks, Curran...

oh yeah..by the way...I read your tweets....I rarely bother with the rest of the gaggling geese but you are required reading as far as I'm concerned. Just wondering though, is there any way you could give Ordway a slap on the back of his fat head...?