Waters' Locker Cleaned Out (Update: Reports Nameplate Taken Down)

[ATippett56]

I was just asking if you understood my post?

If Bill Belichick feels that Brian Waters is the best right guard for the New England Patriots, Brian Waters absence weakens the New England Patriots offensive line.

The condition of Vollmer's back may or may not be an issue this year. Marcus Cannon may or may not play a major role this season which most likely depends on the health of Vollmer. I seriously doubt an offensive tackle currently unemployed would be an upgrade to Cannon at this stage of the season.

 

[SyN65]

If Bill Belichick feels that Brian Waters is the best right guard for the New England Patriots, Brian Waters absence weakens the New England Patriots offensive line.

The condition of Vollmer's back may or may not be an issue this year. Marcus Cannon may or may not play a major role this season which most likely depends on the health of Vollmer. I seriously doubt an offensive tackle currently unemployed would be an upgrade to Cannon at this stage of the season.

The thing is Waters played very well last season, arguably just as well as Mankins. The Pats O-line is NOT looking good, and the addition of Waters - even with an expected downgrade in play - would vastly improve the Pats O-line and help keep Brady upright.

 

[BBass]

If Bill Belichick feels that Brian Waters is the best right guard for the New England Patriots, Brian Waters absence weakens the New England Patriots offensive line.

The condition of Vollmer's back may or may not be an issue this year. Marcus Cannon may or may not play a major role this season which most likely depends on the health of Vollmer. I seriously doubt an offensive tackle currently unemployed would be an upgrade to Cannon at this stage of the season.

I agree with what you're saying. I would like to see Waters back too.

My only thought is that this is obviously something BB was aware of since the superbowl. I would like to believe he is comfortable with what he has in house otherwise he could of made a play for a number for FA guards or used a draft pick on someone.

I cannot sit here and say that Brian Waters is the key to are offensive line. I think he would be an asset to have on the team but not to the level at which people are suggesting.

The reaction is obviously based on the poor play during preseason but in my opinion it was more of us not using are normal schemes and not a question of poor talent.

 

[BTTA]

The number redistribution does sound significant. I'd guess that he's decided that his order of priority is

1. Get a raise and play for Dallas
2. Play for Dallas at the same salary
3. Get a raise and play for Houston
4. Play for Houston for the same salary
5. Retire

And in that regard, is having his agent try to get the Pats to trade him to one of those two teams, and that conversations along those lines have already begun, and that neither of those teams wants to guarantee a salary and are perfectly happy to wait until after week 1 to take him on, because of his age.

If he caught the Pats by surprise with this, then I can see them being as p1ssed off as some of the posters here, and playing hardball with him.

 

[ATippett56]

The thing is Waters played very well last season, arguably just as well as Mankins. The Pats O-line is NOT looking good, and the addition of Waters - even with an expected downgrade in play - would vastly improve the Pats O-line and help keep Brady upright.

Less than a week to go until the regular season starts, I seriously doubt the New England Patriots will find an upgrade at the offensive right guard position. I guess, it is what it is.

 

[BBass]

The thing is Waters played very well last season, arguably just as well as Mankins. The Pats O-line is NOT looking good, and the addition of Waters - even with an expected downgrade in play - would vastly improve the Pats O-line and help keep Brady upright.

My question is from a skill and talent perspective who do you think has more at this point in their career?

LT - Light or Solder?
Swing T or Cannon or Gallery?
C - Koppen or Tenant/Wendell?
RG - Waters or Connolly/Thomas?

If you believe that we downgraded in talent then we should be concerned. If you think that the talent is better or at least equal then why not have the confidence in Dante and BB to workout the communication and scheme issues?

 

[ATippett56]

The number redistribution does sound significant. I'd guess that he's decided that his order of priority is

1. Get a raise and play for Dallas
2. Play for Dallas at the same salary
3. Get a raise and play for Houston
4. Play for Houston for the same salary
5. Retire

And in that regard, is having his agent try to get the Pats to trade him to one of those two teams, and that conversations along those lines have already begun, and that neither of those teams wants to guarantee a salary and are perfectly happy to wait until after week 1 to take him on, because of his age.

If he caught the Pats by surprise with this, then I can see them being as p1ssed off as some of the posters here, and playing hardball with him.

Best case scenario is to trade him out of the conference to the Dallas Cowboys. Let the Cowboys, Eagles, Giants maul each other during the regular season.

 

[BBass]

The number redistribution does sound significant. I'd guess that he's decided that his order of priority is

1. Get a raise and play for Dallas
2. Play for Dallas at the same salary
3. Get a raise and play for Houston
4. Play for Houston for the same salary
5. Retire

And in that regard, is having his agent try to get the Pats to trade him to one of those two teams, and that conversations along those lines have already begun, and that neither of those teams wants to guarantee a salary and are perfectly happy to wait until after week 1 to take him on, because of his age.

If he caught the Pats by surprise with this, then I can see them being as p1ssed off as some of the posters here, and playing hardball with him.

Do you think that the Patriots forced Brian Waters to take a 2 yr contract last season? He was 34 and had just been released by the Chiefs. I have to believe that Waters agent was the one asking for 2yrs over 1yr? Why take that deal if he was not planning on either playing in New England or retiring after 2011/2012?

Also Brian Waters has to be playing still for a ring. Dallas and Houston are playoff contenders but not close to the level of the Patriots. I don't buy this playing close to home theory.

New England is the furthest team from Texas in all of the NFL and it was his choice last season now all of a sudden he 11 months later he needs to be in his home state?

 

[Danger Zone]

Its hard to be away from home can also translate into, will be back after labor day weekend.

 

[ATippett56]

The New England Patriots offensive line may catch a break against the Tennessee Titans:

Titans looking at defensive linemen on Tuesday | ProFootballTalk

 

[zoostation]

So why is Waters being silent? How does that serve him or the Patriots.. at all?

Are there other examples of this kind of behavior from coach and player almost into week one?

I still say there is an "after labor day" agreement going on.

In my opinion he's being quiet because.... if his desire is to play, but play closer to home (Houston or Dallas), the Patriots have all the leverage. It doesn't benefit him to talk.....and the Patriots never talk.

 

[BTTA]

Do you think that the Patriots forced Brian Waters to take a 2 yr contract last season? He was 34 and had just been released by the Chiefs. I have to believe that Waters agent was the one asking for 2yrs over 1yr? Why take that deal if he was not planning on either playing in New England or retiring after 2011/2012?

Also Brian Waters has to be playing still for a ring. Dallas and Houston are playoff contenders but not close to the level of the Patriots. I don't buy this playing close to home theory.

New England is the furthest team from Texas in all of the NFL and it was his choice last season now all of a sudden he 11 months later he needs to be in his home state?

I hope you are right.

 

[SyN65]

My question is from a skill and talent perspective who do you think has more at this point in their career?

LT - Light or Solder?
Swing T or Cannon or Gallery?
C - Koppen or Tenant/Wendell?
RG - Waters or Connolly/Thomas?

If you believe that we downgraded in talent then we should be concerned. If you think that the talent is better or at least equal then why not have the confidence in Dante and BB to workout the communication and scheme issues?

I don't think anyone can argue that the addition of Waters makes the Pats worse. I wouldn't be as concerned about the talent on the Pats if there weren't so many question marks on the Pats O-line as there is now.

Solder - Didn't have the best preseason, I think he can improve
Mankins - Coming back from injury, hopefully he's 100%
Volmer - Solid when healthy, but again, back problems have me worried. Some players (Gronk) move on from them but back issues are notorious for coming back.
Cannon - Basically his rookie year, hasn't looked that great in preseason.

The thing is if everyone was healthy I wouldn't be as concerned, but health (as well as experience) is a huge issue with the Pats O-line. To make things worse, the Pats live and die by how well the O-line plays.

Examples:

Baltimore playoff loss
Jets playoff loss
Both SB's

In all of those games pressure was put on Brady and the offense suffered. If preseason is any indication of how well the O-line is going to play then we should be very concerned.

But then again, coaches know more than anyone else so if they were concerned I think they would have done something about it, so who knows...

 

[mgteich]

We are clearly worse off without 3/5 of the OL that started in 2011.

I don't think anyone can argue that the addition of Waters makes the Pats worse. I wouldn't be as concerned about the talent on the Pats if there weren't so many question marks on the Pats O-line as there is now.

Solder - Didn't have the best preseason, I think he can improve
Mankins - Coming back from injury, hopefully he's 100%
Volmer - Solid when healthy, but again, back problems have me worried. Some players (Gronk) move on from them but back issues are notorious for coming back.
Cannon - Basically his rookie year, hasn't looked that great in preseason.

The thing is if everyone was healthy I wouldn't be as concerned, but health (as well as experience) is a huge issue with the Pats O-line. To make things worse, the Pats live and die by how well the O-line plays.

Examples:

Baltimore playoff loss
Jets playoff loss
Both SB's

In all of those games pressure was put on Brady and the offense suffered. If preseason is any indication of how well the O-line is going to play then we should be very concerned.

But then again, coaches know more than anyone else so if they were concerned I think they would have done something about it, so who knows...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Do you think that the Patriots forced Brian Waters to take a 2 yr contract last season? He was 34 and had just been released by the Chiefs. I have to believe that Waters agent was the one asking for 2yrs over 1yr? Why take that deal if he was not planning on either playing in New England or retiring after 2011/2012?

Also Brian Waters has to be playing still for a ring. Dallas and Houston are playoff contenders but not close to the level of the Patriots. I don't buy this playing close to home theory.

New England is the furthest team from Texas in all of the NFL and it was his choice last season now all of a sudden he 11 months later he needs to be in his home state?

Put away the homer glasses for a second....Do you really think the Texans are not on the level of the Pats?....I think a healthy Schaub and the Texans are equal to if not better than the Pats ...at least going into the season.

The Texans have a great RB,a QB who fits well with that team and they are loaded on defense.....Our Pats have big questions in the secondary and offensive line.....let's not put the Pats high up on a pedestal over the whole league until we see what transpires in those mentioned areas first.

I would put the best teams in the AFC when healthy ...Pats 1A & Houston 1B

 

[DaBruinz]

The thing is Waters played very well last season, arguably just as well as Mankins. The Pats O-line is NOT looking good, and the addition of Waters - even with an expected downgrade in play - would vastly improve the Pats O-line and help keep Brady upright.

How can you judge the O-line when it's NOT played together all of pre-season? At all?

 

[BBass]

Put away the homer glasses for a second....Do you really think the Texans are not on the level of the Pats?....I think a healthy Schaub and the Texans are equal to if not better than the Pats ...at least going into the season.

The Texans have a great RB,a QB who fits well with that team and they are loaded on defense.....Our Pats have big questions in the secondary and offensive line.....let's not put the Pats high up on a pedestal over the whole league until we see what transpires in those mentioned areas first.

I would put the best teams in the AFC when healthy ...Pats 1A & Houston 1B

Homer glasses aside Houston is a good team but Schuab is not an elite QB and he has an injury history beyond just last season. They also lost a lot of good players in the off season. Their defense is good but I would not call it loaded, Watt and Joseph are studs and beyond that they have a lot of players who can go either way. I do not know if I would put them into a conversation for a super bowl contender. I can tell you if you are playing for a ring you want to go to a team with a elite QB because the last team to win a Super Bowl without one was the Ravens with Trent Dilfer.

 

[BBass]

We are clearly worse off without 3/5 of the OL that started in 2011.

Clearly not as of today. My point is that I believe the pieces are there to be as good if not better in the long run. The fact is Waters and Light are not here so we need to figure out the best solution to move forward.

I really like the Tennant pickup. I think he is going to be a real good player for us. He was not a good fit for the scheme NO uses but here in are zone scheme his athleticism and technique is going to be ideal.

 

[patchick]

How can you judge the O-line when it's NOT played together all of pre-season? At all?

That's a very fair point. The flip side, though, is "I'm worried about the O-line because it hasn't played together all of pre-season."

Individual talents aside, we know for certain that the starting line has had no stability and no chance to develop as a unit on the field.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's a very fair point. The flip side, though, is "I'm worried about the O-line because it hasn't played together all of pre-season."

Individual talents aside, we know for certain that the starting line has had no stability and no chance to develop as a unit on the field.

This is true.. But that wasn't what the poster who I replied to was saying.. He was saying they looked bad.. Kinda hard for the O-line to look bad when they haven't been on the field at the same time..

As for building stability and developing as a unit, they've had the past week and will have this week to do so before the Titans game. They will not be perfect, but they'll be better than anything we saw in pre-season, imho.