Was WR Nelson Agholor Misused in the Patriots Offense (how to fix), or just a Terrible Contract/Signing from the Start?

[Wozzy]

I would like to see more of Wilkerson. Granted it was against the Jags but it looked like there is at least something to work with there. As for Tre Nixon they kept him on the practice squad all year so they may see something in him worth developing. I agree on Meyers where I hope he is back as long as it is relatively cheap but certainly wouldn't be opposed to an upgrade if there is one out there. Getting Harry out of the way should help clear up a receiver spot for one of the young guys to get more looks so I am hoping we see him gone sooner rather than later.

Wilkerson has always shown the ability to get open, at the end of preseason he came down with a case of the dropsies and ended up on the practice squad. If his hands are improved and reliable, he could be an interesting slot option. He can shake a defender out of his shoes like Allen Iverson.

Nixon was totally lost in camp and preseason, he was a small school prospect who needed time to develop. Who knows in year two if he will be at the point of contributing, but after Agholor he's the only fast WR in the room. He is a very good athlete and it's a tough system for a vet to grasp, never mind a rookie.

N'Keal is dead weight, if he has any trade value at all get something for him. He doesn't play up to his athleticism, he is soft, football dumb and makes bad choices. If you can't get a 7th, cut him and move on. Don't make a mistake worse by being belligerent about it.

 

[Wozzy]

?? What's your take on TE's Dalton Keene and Devin Asiasi you think they could add something going forward?

We have an interesting situation upcoming with Jakob Johnson being a free agent. FB's don't usually garner a lot of money on the open market so we could probably get him back here cheaply. That being said, they have all three TE's returning and Dalton Keene coming off the injury (Foxboro flu) list.

When the Pats had Aaron Hernandez they weren't rostering a traditional FB, Hernandez doubled as the FB. IMO Jonnu should take over that role as his build is made for it, he is dangerous as a runner and could be really difficult to defend out of the backfield. Asiasi also has that lower center of gravity at 6'3" and could also double as a FB. In short... they could carry 4 TE's instead of 3 TE's and a FB. They could probably also afford to bring all five guys back and see who emerges from preseason healthy.

 

[Wozzy]

Please rank our WR talent against that of the other AFC playoff teams.

I agree that the passing game will likely be better, presuming that our OL play doesn't decline. Our 2022 lineup is currently
Wynn, Onwenu, Andrews, Mason, Herron

Even if we re-sign Karras AND Brown, we are using Herron as the backup LT. Given Wynn's injury problems, we need a serious improvement.

One obvious solution is to re-sign Karras and sign a veteran swing OT, and a backup C/G.

This would also help the running game which is down to Harris and Stevenson.

Rank our WR talent based upon what, how they performed in 2021?

In 2020 Agholor was the second best deep threat in the NFL in yards per reception. Hunter Henry has always been one of the best TE's in the league when healthy. Jonnu Smith is a very athletic TE/FB hybrid who was explosive for the Titans, Tannehill certainly missed him and Adam Humphries (or any slot WR) in the playoffs.

Bourne and Meyers are good physical possession guys, comparable to a young Sanu or Lafell. Gunner doesn't play offense but has potential and Amendola-like athleticism. Nixon is very fast and a good athlete with decent size, Wilkerson has better mobility/agility than the majority of guys his size, comparable to the most elite athletes in the NFL with decent (4.5) speed.

There's good talent and potential at WR, whether they add here will depend on what they do with Meyers and Gunner as RFA's. If Mac improves the offense will improve by default, if the offense comes back more efficient they will have improved, if both happen they'll be much better next season with the same or similar weapons.

If they re-sign Karras and Brown they are once again, health provided, one of the best O-Line's in the NFL. Improving depth is always a priority but Herron played well late in the season, Cajuste has size and strength, this kid they just signed to a futures contract, Arlington Hambright, is a good guard prospect. Onwenu is still a stud.

 

[SVN]

Another veiled NEM style thread about the OC ...sigh

 

[Ring 6]

They were ranked 26th in passing attempts, there are only 32 teams.

They ranked 17th in turnovers, 23rd in fumbles... there are 32 teams, which makes anything below 16 below average.

The Patriots defense also ranked 3rd in the NFL in forced turnovers, they got the offense the ball back at a high rate.
I'm not saying the offense was bad.They were manned by a rookie QB, the blocking early in the season was atrocious, they were prone to penalties at inopportune times, weapons fumbled or dropped passes at the worst times. They never fired on all cylinders consistently, except in spurts. They could have been, and likely will be better as Mac and the unit as a whole improves... the passing game specifically.[/B]

You literally did say the offense was bad.

we have to admit to ourselves that the offense barely passed at all and just wasn't that good

And you didn’t say they threw the ball less than average, you said

the offense barely passed at all

When they passed about 3 fewer times per game than the average.

 

[Ring 6]

Agree. It's not relevant. Bourne is an excellent add and great value. But AJ is bringing it in because his main thing is to defend every Patriot move.

To understand andyjohnson you have to take 4 shots and then imagine what would Forrest Gump think in this situation.

So you pull the cowardly reference me without quoting me so I don’t see it and you don’t get embarrassed again.

I’m not defending anything I am asking questions and explaining the situation.

But in any event, we have 2 outstanding discussions that you tucked your tale between your legs and scurried away from, so let’s get back to that.
1) You accused me of lying. I proved to you that what I says was 100% accurate and asked you to show any example of any post I ever made that was a lie. You ran away.
2) You said the patriot offense was mediocre so I asked you to show everyone your cast knowledge and identify 16 offenses that did better. You ran away.

I think you referenced Forest Gump because you expect to run for years.

 

[Ring 6]

The sad thing with Jonnu Smith and how he petered out in our Offense is not a good sign. Jets sweeps for a known pass catching TE! All of a sudden he cant catch passes in space that's a huge confidence Issue. Some players get out of it some players don't Patriots better hope its not the latter in this case.

He caught 0.1 fewer passes per game this year than he did in his career in Tennessee.
No doubt when they signed him they saw something that led them to believe he would break out, but he didn’t.

 

[Family]

Rank our WR talent based upon what, how they performed in 2021?

In 2020 Agholor was the second best deep threat in the NFL in yards per reception. Hunter Henry has always been one of the best TE's in the league when healthy. Jonnu Smith is a very athletic TE/FB hybrid who was explosive for the Titans, Tannehill certainly missed him and Adam Humphries (or any slot WR) in the playoffs.

Bourne and Meyers are good physical possession guys, comparable to a young Sanu or Lafell. Gunner doesn't play offense but has potential and Amendola-like athleticism. Nixon is very fast and a good athlete with decent size, Wilkerson has better mobility/agility than the majority of guys his size, comparable to the most elite athletes in the NFL with decent (4.5) speed.

There's good talent and potential at WR, whether they add here will depend on what they do with Meyers and Gunner as RFA's. If Mac improves the offense will improve by default, if the offense comes back more efficient they will have improved, if both happen they'll be much better next season with the same or similar weapons.

If they re-sign Karras and Brown they are once again, health provided, one of the best O-Line's in the NFL. Improving depth is always a priority but Herron played well late in the season, Cajuste has size and strength, this kid they just signed to a futures contract, Arlington Hambright, is a good guard prospect. Onwenu is still a stud.

No one in that group has the tools to be a reliable consistent third down binkie for Mac. (edit: except maybe Adam Humphries. whatever happened to his career)

That's what's missing.

 

[Kontradiction]

Golladay was waaay more expensive at 4/72 and had a similar season.

For most of the season Jones wasn’t even looking at that throw. I mean the difference is a play every 4 games or so, so it’s not like he should be open deep multiple times every game.
Bourne is relevant because he took a larger role while agholor took a smaller one.

Not sure if you’re aware of this or not, but you’re basically conceding my point. If the team either can’t get him the ball, or won’t get him the ball, it’s a bad signing in either event. And Jones was definitely looking for that throw once the OL stabilizer. Agholor’s production didn’t go up on the deep ball, though, because he often wasn’t open on those routes.

 

[Gumby]

Exactly. And I'm staunchly against adding any more toys on offense. Why the talk of adding a slot WR when the middle of the field is already clogged up with 4 players on the roster who use the middle of the field. Why talk of adding a speedster when Agholor is already an underused speedster. And first fix other under-used players like Onwenu on the bench and Jonnu. The offense has an OL problem not a player talent problem.

There. FIFY.

 

[Gumby]

Equating Smith losing snaps because he's a poor blocker is the height of idiocy. Or, par for the course for construction guy IQ's.

Smith came in as a known poor blocker and excellent YAC guy. Unless the claim is the team actually thought Jonnu was a better blocker than Henry coming in which would be more moronic evals from this mediocre offensive staff.

 

[Ring 6]

Not sure if you’re aware of this or not, but you’re basically conceding my point. If the team either can’t get him the ball, or won’t get him the ball, it’s a bad signing in either event. And Jones was definitely looking for that throw once the OL stabilizer. Agholor’s production didn’t go up on the deep ball, though, because he often wasn’t open on those routes.

Im not really debating points.
Im looking at the circumstances of the decision.
The price compared to what other starting receivers were going for wasn’t out of line.
Considering you have Meyers and Bourne (assuming Bourne was signed first or more or less together) Agholor seems to be a reasonable skill set complement to them.
When they signed him they definitely needed WRs and didn’t know who the QB would be, so his fit with Mac wasn’t a possible consideration.
I don’t think Jones really ever was comfortable (or coached, whichever it was) to throw 30-40+ yard passes. I rarely remember any of them, but I do agree he expanded his willingness to throw in the 12-30 yards areas but only in the last couple of games.

 

[Ring 6]

No one in that group has the tools to be a reliable consistent third down binkie for Mac. (edit: except maybe Adam Humphries. whatever happened to his career)

That's what's missing.

Which current NFL WRs would you consider a “reliable consistent third down binkie”

 

[Family]

Which current NFL WRs would you consider a “reliable consistent third down binkie”

That's a fair question considering the reliable consistent third down binkies across the league double as their team's elite WR. Without going though every team of course Hill/Kupp/Chase are both.

But this was always the Patriots way. They whiffed on picking elite wrs, but bailed out finding a fast reliable sure handed receiver for this role. That's been their offense and Mac Jones has shown the ability to run it.

It's not the common style of the league, so it must be easier to find someone, if your question infers there are few.

It seems to be a strategy BB will need to duplicate becasue I don't see him finding a true elite WR soon.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

That's a fair question considering the reliable consistent third down binkies across the league double as their team's elite WR. Without going though every team of course Hill/Kupp/Chase are both.

But this was always the Patriots way. They whiffed on picking elite wrs, but bailed out finding a fast reliable sure handed receiver for this role. That's been their offense and Mac Jones has shown the ability to run it.

It's not the common style of the league, so it must be easier to find someone, if your question infers there are few.

It seems to be a strategy BB will need to duplicate becasue I don't see him finding a true elite WR soon.

Welker, Troy Brown, Branch, Edelman were never considered true #1 guys. Pats have always been about passing to the open guy. Pats have 6 good pass catchers already on the roster.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

There. FIFY.

That works too. Thanks. Point is the offense actually has what they need if they fix the lazy play calling

 

[DropKickFlutie]

He caught 0.1 fewer passes per game this year than he did in his career in Tennessee.
No doubt when they signed him they saw something that led them to believe he would break out, but he didn’t.

=D

I just feel bad even responding to Forrest Gump.

Jonnu had 41 catches for 448 yards and 8 TDs by the brilliant Titans OC, and 28 catches for 294 yards on the Pats. So this equates to 0.1 fewer catches per game?

=D

 

[Ring 6]

=D

I just feel bad even responding to Forrest Gump.

Jonnu had 41 catches for 448 yards and 8 TDs by the brilliant Titans OC, and 28 catches for 294 yards on the Pats. So this equates to 0.1 fewer catches per game?

=D

Is the problem that you cannot read?

Ring 6 said:
He caught 0.1 fewer passes per game this year than he did in his career in Tennessee.
No doubt when they signed him they saw something that led them to believe he would break out, but he didn’t.

Funny that the guy who gets everything wrong calls names.
Well at least it proves your lack of character. So no Intellect , no personality and no character it’s no wonder you spend your life in moms basement crying about made up demons.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Is the problem that you cannot read?

Ring 6 said:
He caught 0.1 fewer passes per game this year than he did in his career in Tennessee.
No doubt when they signed him they saw something that led them to believe he would break out, but he didn’t.

Funny that the guy who gets everything wrong calls names.
Well at least it proves your lack of character. So no Intellect , no personality and no character it’s no wonder you spend your life in moms basement crying about made up demons.

Ah. I see. An esoteric point that means nothing.

Thanks for proving again you're fine with ANYTHING the Patriots do.

 

[Ring 6]

Ah. I see. An esoteric point that means nothing.

Thanks for proving again you're fine with ANYTHING the Patriots do.

So that’s a great point and something you should really think about.
NOT whining incessantly does not mean you are fine with everything.
Giving perspective and showing what realistic expectations are is not being fine with everything

You literally do not need to get up every morning and plan how many times you have to ***** in a football board to prove you didn’t like everything the team did.

You are pretty much wasting your life away crying for absolutely no reason.