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Was WR Nelson Agholor Misused in the Patriots Offense (how to fix), or just a Terrible Contract/Signing from the Start?

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DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
So that’s a great point and something you should really think about.
NOT whining incessantly does not mean you are fine with everything.
Giving perspective and showing what realistic expectations are is not being fine with everything

You literally do not need to get up every morning and plan how many times you have to ***** in a football board to prove you didn’t like everything the team did.

You are pretty much wasting your life away crying for absolutely no reason.

No I'm just glad you think the offense is amazing. Thank you for your perspective.
 

Family

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Welker, Troy Brown, Branch, Edelman were never considered true #1 guys. Pats have always been about passing to the open guy. Pats have 6 good pass catchers already on the roster.

Right. That's why I refer to the needed receiver as a binkie and not #1.

The Patriots have good WRs, but not one of them combines quickness, ability to get open, and sure hands of the group you mention.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
You literally did say the offense was bad.



And you didn’t say they threw the ball less than average, you said


When they passed about 3 fewer times per game than the average.
So you're attacking over slight hyperbole? The offense was bad for stretches, they were great for stretches... that they were inconsistent (or exactly what I said in my initial post) has been my entire message all along in 2021. Don't drag arguments from other threads into new ones, outside observers just will assume you're not very likable.
 
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Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
No one in that group has the tools to be a reliable consistent third down binkie for Mac. (edit: except maybe Adam Humphries. whatever happened to his career)

That's what's missing.
I think Meyers or Bourne is a decent option in the slot right now, Wilkerson or Gunner could probably play there admirably. In the meantime the Pats offense had the 10th best third down conversion rate in the league.... not terrible. The offense would have looked a lot more impressive if they turned it over less, didn't commit penalties at the worst time, fumble or drop passes.

Too often people think weapons is some cure all for what is wrong, very often it's execution. Mac seems to be getting judged like a multiyear vet, he's not and the offense around him didn't help with a lot of vets making mistakes. As I said above, I like Wilkerson's potential in the slot especially, should they decide to move on from Meyers or not.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Supporter
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2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
So you're attacking over slight hyperbole? The offense was bad for stretches, they were great for stretches... that they were inconsistent (or exactly what I said in my initial post) has been my entire message all along in 2021. Don't drag arguments from other threads into new ones, outside observers just will assume you're not very likable.
Attacking? I am disagreeing with things you said that are wrong.
Not dragging anything in, literally responding to the words in your post.
 

Sam Bam Cunningham

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
It takes 2 to tango. After Brady left and the terrible 2020 year, elite UFA WR's were not chomping at the bit to sign with Pats. Agholor was likely the best one they could convince to sign.

Want a true # 1 FA WRs? draft them or get an elite QB to make it attractive for them to come.
 
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Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Attacking? I am disagreeing with things you said that are wrong.
Not dragging anything in, literally responding to the words in your post.
And you got it wrong. I didn't say the offense was outright bad, I said they weren't consistent. Which was accurate.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Whether we're talking about Agholor, who started the year off strong, or Jonnu who flashed at times towards the middle and end, we have to admit to ourselves that the offense barely passed at all and just wasn't that good... at least not consistently good. They struggled to utilize their weapons to the fullest when they weren't struggling to execute properly. Just adding weapons, the NFL equivalent of throwing money at a problem, is not always the solution... sometimes they just have to play better.
What was actually said...

Ring 6 tilting at windmills.
 

Ring 6

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2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
What was actually said...

Ring 6 tilting at windmills.
“Just wasn’t that good”. That’s what you said.
About the offense that scored the 6th most points and score on the 2nd highest percentage of possessions.
If you want to walk back your comments, that’s fine but it’s not my fault I accepted your actual words to be what you said.
 

Family

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I think Meyers or Bourne is a decent option in the slot right now, Wilkerson or Gunner could probably play there admirably. In the meantime the Pats offense had the 10th best third down conversion rate in the league.... not terrible. The offense would have looked a lot more impressive if they turned it over less, didn't commit penalties at the worst time, fumble or drop passes.

Too often people think weapons is some cure all for what is wrong, very often it's execution. Mac seems to be getting judged like a multiyear vet, he's not and the offense around him didn't help with a lot of vets making mistakes. As I said above, I like Wilkerson's potential in the slot especially, should they decide to move on from Meyers or not.

We can operate from hope things change, but what is needed is a receiver to consistently get open short, while almost never dropping the ball.

Bourne
2018 - caught 42 passes dropped 5
2019 - caught 30 dropped 3
2020 - caught 49 dropped 6

Wilkerson could not make the team strictly because of drops. Even in his career game he dropped a TD pass.

Meyers, maybe hope, but doesn't get open enough and still runs the wrong routes. There's a reason it took longer for him to get a receiving TD than anyone.

Gunner might be the best shot, but it's still only a hope.

This isn't about misjudging Mac. Everyone in the group (except maybe Gunner) is an NFL receiver, but none display the qualities of former Patriot players in this role.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
We can operate from hope things change, but what is needed is a receiver to consistently get open short, while almost never dropping the ball.

Bourne
2018 - caught 42 passes dropped 5
2019 - caught 30 dropped 3
2020 - caught 49 dropped 6

Wilkerson could not make the team strictly because of drops. Even in his career game he dropped a TD pass.

Meyers, maybe hope, but doesn't get open enough and still runs the wrong routes. There's a reason it took longer for him to get a receiving TD than anyone.

Gunner might be the best shot, but it's still only a hope.

This isn't about misjudging Mac. Everyone in the group (except maybe Gunner) is an NFL receiver, but none display the qualities of former Patriot players in this role.
FYI Bourne only had 2 drops last year with basically the same # of targets in 2000

He may still not be the greatest in terms of getting open immediately but he hands have improved.

Also might be attributed to Mac throwing a more catchable ball than Jimmy and Mullins
 

Family

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
FYI Bourne only had 2 drops last year with basically the same # of targets in 2000

He may still not be the greatest in terms of getting open immediately but he hands have improved.

Also might be attributed to Mac throwing a more catchable ball than Jimmy and Mullins

2 drops plus 1 fumble on 55 receptions. Trending in the right direction.

Brown/Welker/Edelman - getting open and being sure handed were always each best skill set as young players.

I see Bourne as a different player, but ok add him to the hope category.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
People that cherry pick stats to backup their argument while ignoring what the product on the field looks like aren't worth arguing with. I don't care what rank the offense finished with. Watching them play against good teams or try to score points when they needed to showed me all I needed to see. The Jets games and the Jags game are going to skew the final standings as well. Congrats. We can score a bunch of points on the two worst teams in the league. That doesn't really make me feel better. The offense was average to below average at times and I am not sounding the alarms with a rookie QB and all the new faces in the mix. If the offense still looks like this by the end of the next it will be a problem.
 

Family

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
People that cherry pick stats to backup their argument while ignoring what the product on the field looks like aren't worth arguing with. I don't care what rank the offense finished with. Watching them play against good teams or try to score points when they needed to showed me all I needed to see. The Jets games and the Jags game are going to skew the final standings as well. Congrats. We can score a bunch of points on the two worst teams in the league. That doesn't really make me feel better. The offense was average to below average at times and I am not sounding the alarms with a rookie QB and all the new faces in the mix. If the offense still looks like this by the end of the next it will be a problem.

Another way of looking at it is steps with a rookie QB.

Yes they don't have the weapons to go against the best teams yet, but except for the last game the offense always kept coming and never quit.

The Jets and Jag games show how well our rookie QB executes when he has the better pieces.

Yes if the offense still looks like this year 3 of Mac there is a problem.

But in year one of Mac, it is you cherry picking the negative.
 

amfootball

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
None of our skill guys reached close to their potential because Mac was a rookie and he was being managed the entire season. IMO, it was a fantastic job by McD to groom Mac in his first year with one of the best statistical seasons ever by a rookie, on top of him staying healthy for 18 games with a playoff berth. Going forward, if there is not a sea change in philosophy to build this team to be faster and more dynamic on both sides of the ball, we wont' be contenders with the top teams in the AFC.
 

yukon cornelius

In the Starting Line-Up
the offense was built to go with a rookie QB, to limit risk, to play ball control and be efficient with its chances.......it put this team at this stage of the rebuild in its best position to win IF the defense did its job

the defense did not

the 2021 offense was not built, either in personnel, philosophy, or play call, to compete in track meets with the league's best offenses......

will this offense evolve as Mac's development progresses? One would expect so......they will look to be more balances in their attack, more explosive, take more chances......this should be reflected in personnel, playcall, and overall philosophy if everyone is doing their hobs and on the same page
 

amfootball

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
the offense was built to go with a rookie QB, to limit risk, to play ball control and be efficient with its chances.......it put this team at this stage of the rebuild in its best position to win IF the defense did its job

the defense did not

the 2021 offense was not built, either in personnel, philosophy, or play call, to compete in track meets with the league's best offenses......

will this offense evolve as Mac's development progresses? One would expect so......they will look to be more balances in their attack, more explosive, take more chances......this should be reflected in personnel, playcall, and overall philosophy if everyone is doing their hobs and on the same page
Spot on. The defense is what let this team down.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Another way of looking at it is steps with a rookie QB.

Yes they don't have the weapons to go against the best teams yet, but except for the last game the offense always kept coming and never quit.

The Jets and Jag games show how well our rookie QB executes when he has the better pieces.

Yes if the offense still looks like this year 3 of Mac there is a problem.

But in year one of Mac, it is you cherry picking the negative.
Okay the offense was great. You win.
 

TheRainMaker

Voted most handsome by my mother
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Going forward, if there is not a sea change in philosophy to build this team to be faster and more dynamic on both sides of the ball, we wont' be contenders with the top teams in the AFC.
The one thing that stands out in these playoffs is how fast teams are on both sides of the ball.
 
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