Was The Draft Average After The First Round?

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Some of your threads bro ...

If you didn't have prospects graded before the draft what type of opinion can you really have after it?

I had a 2nd on Mac, Barmore and Perkins. 4th on Stevenson and 5th or 6th on Sherman. 3rd on Mcgrone.

Idk value lines up to me

 

[Clonamery]

Thank god Ziegler was there to rebut the horrendous advice Wolf was giving Belichick, Ziegler saved their off-season, Wolf could have destroyed it.

So Ziegler is like Little Red Riding Hood? And BB is like Grandma? And the Wolf is the Wolf.

 

[scott99]

I actually liked every pick, which is rare for me. Were there other guys I would’ve liked after round 4, sure, there were some guys I would’ve liked that they had taken a chance on. That being said, I see promise with every pick. The most important pick, which I felt the Pats desperately needed to make, was they needed their future QB, their franchise QB. I was hoping they wouldn’t wait until the later rounds like in the past. I felt that the top 5 QBs in this draft are better than the top QB in the 2022 draft. So happy they didn’t screw it up.

After Jones in the 1st round, they did the opposite of what they usually do, they actually got guys that were rated higher than where we selected them. Just great value picks. Barmore and Jenkins were GREAT picks, most had Barmore going in the 1st round, and I saw Jenkins rated as an early 2nd round pick by some. I was happy there were no silly reaches. I was, on a whole, very happy with this draft. There was talk of a change in draft ideas as opposed to the way they drafted in the past. I really saw some differences, I liked what I saw. Hopefully they take the same approach going forward.

 

[Ivan]

It's awesome how worked up you are over this. I'm so glad we stopped sucking at drafting with Wolf, Groh, and Patricia running the show for BB.

So glad Ziegler got that promotion, think I will say it in every post for the next 3 years.

 

[Ivan]

So Ziegler is like Little Red Riding Hood? And BB is like Grandma? And the Wolf is the Wolf.

Kinda

 

[Ivan]

Really radical idea: reserve judgment until we see how the players turn out

This is bullish.t, we already know they will suck so let’s just get it out now.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

So glad Ziegler got that promotion, think I will say it in every post for the next 3 years.

Well at least you finally learned something on PatsFans. Good to see you picked that up - it was about time for you to start paying attention. Ziegler was key. What else was important? What else did you learn?

 

[IllegalContact]

 

[50-yard-line]

Day 1: Above average (we had the 15th overall pick, after all)

Day 2: Average (gave up way, Way, WAY too much for somebody with that high a bust potential, who doesn't fill a position of great need, and who might very well have been available at #46 anyway)

Day 3: Very, VERY below average (nothing wrong with Stevenson the player, but we needed a WR there, NOT another RB)...The rest of the picks were worthless, UDFA-caliber Crap.

No chance in hell that Barmore was there at 46. The next DT went a couple of picks after him - and no one in this class was nearly as highly rated as Barmore

 

[Brick27]

B*tchers will be b*tchers. That’s the way this forum works for the perennial ones who scare away insightful posters and kill the collective IQ here. Yet somehow.. none of them in this thread have offered pick by pick insight on what supposed can’t miss guys they “should” have drafted instead during the middle and later rounds.

 

[Toofy]

I think this draft went as per expectations. Drafting the best available players till round 3 and then picking up players with potential. The OT alone sherman is a mixed bag else all others are interesting especially Stevenson , nixon and mcgrone.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

“I just wish they’d picked Dez Bryant over Devin McCourty and Sergio Kindle over Rob Gronkowski, so I’ll give them a C-minus” - Consensus opinion in May 2010

I remember seeing some clips of GRONK at Arizona, and deliberately leaving him off my draft contest entry for fear of jinxing things.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

@mgteich , you absolutely need to subscribe to "The Athletic"....Jeff Howe might be blowing smoke up my arse, but his draft pick articles have me convinced that this was an ABOVE AVERAGE draft AT MINIMUM.....

Just this morning, he had a great Tre Nixon write up...the kid ran a 4.43/40 at his pro day and a laser timed 4.38 in high school....and he has been doing 16 hour days at Gillette..... I now think Ernie got us a MAJOR steal in round 7 there....

He could turn into Edelman 2.0 . . . or Berrios 2.0 . . . or anywhere in between.

In any case, he's a Patriot now, so I'll be rooting for him.

 

[Ivan]

Well at least you finally learned something on PatsFans. Good to see you picked that up - it was about time for you to start paying attention. Ziegler was key. What else was important? What else did you learn?

That was it, nothing else.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Generally, normally people will say, "wait three years" ... I can tell you as someone who is obsessed with this, I'm constantly looking at old classes to see how I did or who's doing well, who's not. Maybe there's a few guys I know can play and just stuck in bad situations.

Like who's the best WR from 2014? A few years ago it's Beckham pretty easy. Mike Evans has been on a borderline HOF pace. Davante Adams has deserves mention. What about Allen Robinson?

Unless you're a draft geek I wouldn't get too worked up this soon.

 

[masterbouncer]

Generally, normally people will say, "wait three years" ... I can tell you as someone who is obsessed with this, I'm constantly looking at old classes to see how I did or who's doing well, who's not. Maybe there's a few guys I know can play and just stuck in bad situations.

Like who's the best WR from 2014? A few years ago it's Beckham pretty easy. Mike Evans has been on a borderline HOF pace. Davante Adams has deserves mention. What about Allen Robinson?

Unless you're a draft geek I wouldn't get too worked up this soon.

hmm sorry thats to logical for this board, you have to allow the patsfans member to pretend to be smart and knowing whos the best available player in the draft for the pats

general rule is, every other player not selected by the Pats will be a HoF regardless of the round selected (especially WRs), all Pats drafted players just plain suck if they are not All-Pros within the first 2 years after being drafted

 

[doesntmatter1]

I suspect this might be our best draft in a long time because we mailed it in. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't scout at all last year. We went to our safety valve in Alabama and Oklahoma for our top prospects and didn't get cute for once. In a normal year we trade down 11 times out of the first and draft a qb from division 3. We accepted we can't draft reliable receivers/te and didn't really try to this year. We didn't need a running back but he may be our best pick in the coming years.

 

[Wozzy]

Some of your threads bro ...

If you didn't have prospects graded before the draft what type of opinion can you really have after it?

I had a 2nd on Mac, Barmore and Perkins. 4th on Stevenson and 5th or 6th on Sherman. 3rd on Mcgrone.

Idk value lines up to me

This ^

If one truly follows and enjoys the draft, they would have grades on these players prior to the draft. What happens after the draft and before football begins is a lot of hot air. I don't even care where these guys were drafted as long as I had high grades on them or they were on my big board at all.

Copy/paste of my draft grades...

Mac Jones - Not much more to add here, we've dissected these QB's to death. This was a great pick at 15, he got pushed down the board because teams were turned off by his doughy physique and not so fleet of foot athleticism... that sound like anyone else we know coming out? But he's a winner, he put up the single most accurate season of any passer in college history, his 203.1 QB Rating and 77.4% Completion Percentage is the best of all time, his pass yards per attempt 5th all time. After watching Cam run but not pass for a season to ruinous results, give me the passer every time. UP

Christian Barmore - I jokingly suggested they trade up in the second before the day began to take Barmore, this after saying the day prior they should consider him at 15 if they didn't take Mac Jones or Kwity Paye... I didn't really think they would. This kid improved as the regular college season moved on and by season's end this sophomore beast won the co-MVP in the national championship game. It also doesn't hurt that he was a Patriot fan to begin with and we have strong leadership on this team, including an Alabama legend in Hightower. This pick is like any other draft pick, it's a dice roll, but this kid's ceiling is through the roof. And despite some supposed "motivation" concerns anyone who saw him run at the pro day with his shirt off knows this guy is not a fat slob, he is in shape. In a disciplined environment like New England he should thrive. We could possibly have hit on a Seymour/Suh/Haynesworth type talent in the second round, in which case the trade compensation was entirely reasonable. I doubt Saban would steer Bill in the wrong direction on either of the first two players. UP

Ronnie Perkins - My first head scratching moment of the draft. Too small and weak to play defensive end full-time and not athletic enough to play OLB. He has decent strength but not James Harrison strength and he's not mobile at all. Perhaps he has that internal football genre that allows his to find the right spot, use leverage and just be a player... but I have doubts. Could have had a much better prospect here IMO. DOWN

Rhamondre Stevenson - Good solid pick here, good measurables and production for a big back. Is reportedly good at pass blocking and has hands to catch swing passes, which for a big guy that's impressive. Reminds me of Jeremy Hill in his prime, hopefully he stays healthier than Hill did and we get the prerequisite four years out of him. UP

Cameron McGrone - I gave a McGrone when this pick was made... a weak side linebacker who didn't have the college run stats of an Elandon Roberts or Kamu Grugier-Hill, but who also had some of the worst pass defense in college according to statisticians... so what purpose does he serve? He didn't work out due to a bad wheel so he was hard to evaluate, I would have given him an incomplete grade but his stats dictate otherwise. DOWN/(potentially) INCOMPLETE

Joshuah Bledsoe - It wouldn't be a draft if BB didn't take a safety. Bledsoe didn't work out after sustaining a wrist injury in the senior bowl which makes me wonder why he couldn't run at least, but whatever. He supposedly is a free safety with good athleticism according to his coach, he's adept at covering TE's and breaking up passes downfield as well as special teams. I can't give him a definitive yes or no at this point but wished they got at least one good young corner. INCOMPLETE

William Sherman - Bad athlete, not strong, can't play in the NFL unless he possesses some amazing football gene. Pretty much balled this pick up and threw it in the trash. DOWN

Tre Nixon - Good pick late, reminds me of Malcolm Mitchell as an athlete. 6'1" but lithe, has good 4.4 speed and agility. Not going to beat you by muscling you out but if he becomes a great route runner could pan out. Will probably start his career with a redshirt season as there's plenty of depth in front of him. He's another example why there's no need to spend an early pick on WR'S, there are talented guys everywhere in the draft. UP

What's changed since this was written a day after the draft... nothing. Though there is a big contingent of negative nancy's that will rush to extoll the virtues of any player then knock said player once they become a Patriot. Been this way in Boston sports since the invention of the inter webs.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This ^

If one truly follows and enjoys the draft, they would have grades on these players prior to the draft. What happens after the draft and before football begins is a lot of hot air. I don't even care where these guys were drafted as long as I had high grades on them or they were on my big board at all.

Copy/paste of my draft grades...

Mac Jones - Not much more to add here, we've dissected these QB's to death. This was a great pick at 15, he got pushed down the board because teams were turned off by his doughy physique and not so fleet of foot athleticism... that sound like anyone else we know coming out? But he's a winner, he put up the single most accurate season of any passer in college history, his 203.1 QB Rating and 77.4% Completion Percentage is the best of all time, his pass yards per attempt 5th all time. After watching Cam run but not pass for a season to ruinous results, give me the passer every time. UP

Christian Barmore - I jokingly suggested they trade up in the second before the day began to take Barmore, this after saying the day prior they should consider him at 15 if they didn't take Mac Jones or Kwity Paye... I didn't really think they would. This kid improved as the regular college season moved on and by season's end this sophomore beast won the co-MVP in the national championship game. It also doesn't hurt that he was a Patriot fan to begin with and we have strong leadership on this team, including an Alabama legend in Hightower. This pick is like any other draft pick, it's a dice roll, but this kid's ceiling is through the roof. And despite some supposed "motivation" concerns anyone who saw him run at the pro day with his shirt off knows this guy is not a fat slob, he is in shape. In a disciplined environment like New England he should thrive. We could possibly have hit on a Seymour/Suh/Haynesworth type talent in the second round, in which case the trade compensation was entirely reasonable. I doubt Saban would steer Bill in the wrong direction on either of the first two players. UP

Ronnie Perkins - My first head scratching moment of the draft. Too small and weak to play defensive end full-time and not athletic enough to play OLB. He has decent strength but not James Harrison strength and he's not mobile at all. Perhaps he has that internal football genre that allows his to find the right spot, use leverage and just be a player... but I have doubts. Could have had a much better prospect here IMO. DOWN

Rhamondre Stevenson - Good solid pick here, good measurables and production for a big back. Is reportedly good at pass blocking and has hands to catch swing passes, which for a big guy that's impressive. Reminds me of Jeremy Hill in his prime, hopefully he stays healthier than Hill did and we get the prerequisite four years out of him. UP

Cameron McGrone - I gave a McGrone when this pick was made... a weak side linebacker who didn't have the college run stats of an Elandon Roberts or Kamu Grugier-Hill, but who also had some of the worst pass defense in college according to statisticians... so what purpose does he serve? He didn't work out due to a bad wheel so he was hard to evaluate, I would have given him an incomplete grade but his stats dictate otherwise. DOWN/(potentially) INCOMPLETE

Joshuah Bledsoe - It wouldn't be a draft if BB didn't take a safety. Bledsoe didn't work out after sustaining a wrist injury in the senior bowl which makes me wonder why he couldn't run at least, but whatever. He supposedly is a free safety with good athleticism according to his coach, he's adept at covering TE's and breaking up passes downfield as well as special teams. I can't give him a definitive yes or no at this point but wished they got at least one good young corner. INCOMPLETE

William Sherman - Bad athlete, not strong, can't play in the NFL unless he possesses some amazing football gene. Pretty much balled this pick up and threw it in the trash. DOWN

Tre Nixon - Good pick late, reminds me of Malcolm Mitchell as an athlete. 6'1" but lithe, has good 4.4 speed and agility. Not going to beat you by muscling you out but if he becomes a great route runner could pan out. Will probably start his career with a redshirt season as there's plenty of depth in front of him. He's another example why there's no need to spend an early pick on WR'S, there are talented guys everywhere in the draft. UP

What's changed since this was written a day after the draft... nothing. Though there is a big contingent of negative nancy's that will rush to extoll the virtues of any player then knock said player once they become a Patriot. Been this way in Boston sports since the invention of the inter webs.

But where are your draft grades prior to looking at the players through the Belichick lens? Do you not see the inherent conflict with claiming to be objective but then waiting to see who Belichick picks and giving a draft grade after that?

What about this statement is unclear? Before the draft. Not after the draft.



So, where are your actual pre-draft grades?

 

[Wozzy]

But where are your draft grades prior to looking at the players through the Belichick lens? Do you not see the inherent conflict with claiming to be objective but then waiting to see who Belichick picks and giving a draft grade after that?

What about this statement is unclear? Before the draft. Not after the draft.

View attachment 33228

So, where are your actual pre-draft grades?

I don't post my big board online for all to see. I said just prior to pick 15 they should take Mac Jones, and if not they should take Barmore.

I said after day one finished they should trade up in the second round and take Barmore, that it would be my dream scenario... it's all timestamped in posts... it happened.

Do you think all this ^ was me giving BB my stamp of approval after having looked into the future?

I said his 3rd and 7th picks sucked and that his 5th and 6th picks left me flat, 5/6 may pan out or might become special teams players at best... is that me rubber stamping his every move because I'm a BB honk?

This has been how I've graded Patriot draft classes going back almost two decades to the old Boston.com forums. Grades based on who I like before the draft, not after the team picks them. The draft is a crapshoot, great prospects could bust, average prospects could thrive... this is all an inexact science. I said I disliked the Easley and Duke Dawson picks in real time... this is what objective posting looks like.

There is no cult of BB, it doesn't exist... Brady fanboys created this invisible enemy to attack anyone who doesn't ascribe magical powers to their scared cow.