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Was The Draft Average After The First Round?

2021 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Bills
Pick Results: NE: 85.7% at BUF: 14.3%

Mon
Dec 6th

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Ice_Ice_Brady

Antonio Brown’s New Live-In Chef
PatsFans.com Supporter
I don't post my big board online for all to see. I said just prior to pick 15 they should take Mac Jones, and if not they should take Barmore.

I said after day one finished they should trade up in the second round and take Barmore, that it would be my dream scenario... it's all timestamped in posts... it happened.

Do you think all this ^ was me giving BB my stamp of approval after having looked into the future?

I said his 3rd and 7th picks sucked and that his 5th and 6th picks left me flat, 5/6 may pan out or might become special teams players at best... is that me rubber stamping his every move because I'm a BB honk?

This has been how I've graded Patriot draft classes going back almost two decades to the old Boston.com forums. Grades based on who I like before the draft, not after the team picks them. The draft is a crapshoot, great prospects could bust, average prospects could thrive... this is all an inexact science. I said I disliked the Easley and Duke Dawson picks in real time... this is what objective posting looks like.

There is no cult of BB, it doesn't exist... Brady fanboys created this invisible enemy to attack anyone who doesn't ascribe magical powers to their scared cow.

What does "Brady fanboys" have to do with your post being totally dishonest in claiming your grades were pre-draft when tthey were post-draft? I see nothing mentioned at all about Brady, other than you citing it as an excuse.

Why don't you post your big board online for all to see? Give a reason...I really want to hear it. You comment about the draft and you just posted these grades, so what is one actual legitimate reason why you wouldn't post it, especially when you've just agreed with BGC that people should post their pre-draft rankings?

You do realize how foolish this all sounds, right? Why can't you be honest for once? Post it and let's see your pre-draft rankings to see if they align with your post-draft cheerleading and implied claims that you were pushing for these picks before they made them. You should be able to post all the years.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
This ^

If one truly follows and enjoys the draft, they would have grades on these players prior to the draft. What happens after the draft and before football begins is a lot of hot air. I don't even care where these guys were drafted as long as I had high grades on them or they were on my big board at all.

Copy/paste of my draft grades...

Mac Jones - Not much more to add here, we've dissected these QB's to death. This was a great pick at 15, he got pushed down the board because teams were turned off by his doughy physique and not so fleet of foot athleticism... that sound like anyone else we know coming out? But he's a winner, he put up the single most accurate season of any passer in college history, his 203.1 QB Rating and 77.4% Completion Percentage is the best of all time, his pass yards per attempt 5th all time. After watching Cam run but not pass for a season to ruinous results, give me the passer every time. UP

Christian Barmore
- I jokingly suggested they trade up in the second before the day began to take Barmore, this after saying the day prior they should consider him at 15 if they didn't take Mac Jones or Kwity Paye... I didn't really think they would. This kid improved as the regular college season moved on and by season's end this sophomore beast won the co-MVP in the national championship game. It also doesn't hurt that he was a Patriot fan to begin with and we have strong leadership on this team, including an Alabama legend in Hightower. This pick is like any other draft pick, it's a dice roll, but this kid's ceiling is through the roof. And despite some supposed "motivation" concerns anyone who saw him run at the pro day with his shirt off knows this guy is not a fat slob, he is in shape. In a disciplined environment like New England he should thrive. We could possibly have hit on a Seymour/Suh/Haynesworth type talent in the second round, in which case the trade compensation was entirely reasonable. I doubt Saban would steer Bill in the wrong direction on either of the first two players. UP

Ronnie Perkins
- My first head scratching moment of the draft. Too small and weak to play defensive end full-time and not athletic enough to play OLB. He has decent strength but not James Harrison strength and he's not mobile at all. Perhaps he has that internal football genre that allows his to find the right spot, use leverage and just be a player... but I have doubts. Could have had a much better prospect here IMO. DOWN

Rhamondre Stevenson
- Good solid pick here, good measurables and production for a big back. Is reportedly good at pass blocking and has hands to catch swing passes, which for a big guy that's impressive. Reminds me of Jeremy Hill in his prime, hopefully he stays healthier than Hill did and we get the prerequisite four years out of him. UP

Cameron McGrone
- I gave a McGrone when this pick was made... a weak side linebacker who didn't have the college run stats of an Elandon Roberts or Kamu Grugier-Hill, but who also had some of the worst pass defense in college according to statisticians... so what purpose does he serve? He didn't work out due to a bad wheel so he was hard to evaluate, I would have given him an incomplete grade but his stats dictate otherwise. DOWN/(potentially) INCOMPLETE

Joshuah Bledsoe
- It wouldn't be a draft if BB didn't take a safety. Bledsoe didn't work out after sustaining a wrist injury in the senior bowl which makes me wonder why he couldn't run at least, but whatever. He supposedly is a free safety with good athleticism according to his coach, he's adept at covering TE's and breaking up passes downfield as well as special teams. I can't give him a definitive yes or no at this point but wished they got at least one good young corner. INCOMPLETE

William Sherman
- Bad athlete, not strong, can't play in the NFL unless he possesses some amazing football gene. Pretty much balled this pick up and threw it in the trash. DOWN

Tre Nixon
- Good pick late, reminds me of Malcolm Mitchell as an athlete. 6'1" but lithe, has good 4.4 speed and agility. Not going to beat you by muscling you out but if he becomes a great route runner could pan out. Will probably start his career with a redshirt season as there's plenty of depth in front of him. He's another example why there's no need to spend an early pick on WR'S, there are talented guys everywhere in the draft. UP

What's changed since this was written a day after the draft... nothing. Though there is a big contingent of negative nancy's that will rush to extoll the virtues of any player then knock said player once they become a Patriot. Been this way in Boston sports since the invention of the inter webs.

Could not disagree more on Perkins, I think he’s Tre Flowers off the edge. He’s going to beat out Wynovich and get more snaps than Uche. They could not stop backs from bouncing outside last season’s n, and Perkins will help them hold the edge against the run.
 

Wozzy

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
What does "Brady fanboys" have to do with your post being totally dishonest in claiming your grades were pre-draft when tthey were post-draft? I see nothing mentioned at all about Brady, other than you citing it as an excuse.

Why don't you post your big board online for all to see? Give a reason...I really want to hear it. You comment about the draft and you just posted these grades, so what is one actual legitimate reason why you wouldn't post it, especially when you've just agreed with BGC that people should post their pre-draft rankings?

You do realize how foolish this all sounds, right? Why can't you be honest for once? Post it and let's see your pre-draft rankings to see if they align with your post-draft cheerleading and implied claims that you were pushing for these picks before they made them. You should be able to post all the years.
I live rent free in your head at this point don’t I?

It’s not my job to do your fantasy football homework for you. That’s why I no longer post my big board of players.

How’s about you don’t say player x, be it Mac Jones or Barmore as the best player available or the best DT on everyone’s board, then turn around to tell us all BB reached in the second round to climb and get him. He’s either the best DT or he’s not.

Brady fanboys blame BB for being the lone gunman on the grassy knoll, the high price of gas and anything and everything... the rest of us can measure each draft pick and decision on its own merit.

Again... all the picks I panned, why didn’t I just rubber stamp BB decisions like you suggest? Strange isn’t it... how nothing you say is honest but you’re quick to accuse others of dishonesty if we don’t share in your opinion that BB sucks at his job.
 

Wozzy

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Could not disagree more on Perkins, I think he’s Tre Flowers off the edge. He’s going to beat out Wynovich and get more snaps than Uche. They could not stop backs from bouncing outside last season’s n, and Perkins will help them hold the edge against the run.
Matt Judon is the new Trey Flowers for the Pats. Perkins isn’t big or strong enough to play DE, he’s not mobile or athletic enough to play OLB.

Maybe I’m wrong and he’s just a great football player but I doubt it.

Ice Ice can’t address above how I think he’s a bad pick, since I just approve of every BB move, but here we are...
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Antonio Brown’s New Live-In Chef
PatsFans.com Supporter
It’s not my job to do your fantasy football homework for you. That’s why I no longer post my big board of players.

How’s about you don’t say player x, be it Mac Jones or Barmore as the best player available or the best DT on everyone’s board, then turn around to tell us all BB reached in the second round to climb and get him. He’s either the best DT or he’s not.

Brady fanboys blame BB for being the lone gunman on the grassy knoll, the high price of gas and anything and everything... the rest of us can measure each draft pick and decision on its own merit.

Again... all the picks I panned, why didn’t I just rubber stamp BB decisions like you suggest? Strange isn’t it... how nothing you say is honest but you’re quick to accuse others of dishonesty if we don’t share in your opinion that BB sucks at his job.

So you won’t post the big board you claim you made pre-draft then. Why not just post it to show your post-draft sentiment matches your pre-draft sentiment? That would be so quick and easy, and you’d make me look foolish. So why not? I didn’t get an answer in there, other than the obvious, which is that you’re trying to cover up your lies.

Blah, blah, blah, Brady fanboys. Again, zero relevance to the discussion.

You said you don’t post your big board online for all to see. So where can I see it? Do I have to subscribe? Can I drive to see it? Surely you have it available, since you claim it exists despite acting in the most shady way imaginable in trying to rationalize why you won’t just post it.
 
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Wozzy

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
So you won’t post the big board you claim you made pre-draft then. Why not just post it to show your post-draft sentiment matches your pre-draft sentiment? That would be so quick and easy, and you’d make me look foolish. So why not? I didn’t get an answer in there, other than the obvious, which is that you’re trying to cover up your lies.

Blah, blah, blah, Brady fanboys. Again, zero relevance to the discussion.

You said you don’t post your big board online for all to see. So where can I see it? Do I have to subscribe? Can I drive to see it? Surely you have it available, since you claim it exists despite acting in the most shady way imaginable in trying to rationalize why you won’t just post it.
I posted my thoughts on Mac and Barmore prior to the draft.

Besides that I knock 2 of the remaining picks as outright bad, and two more as incomplete with just okay college production... is that me rubber stamping every BB pick? Is that me saying BB is omniscient despite saying I dislike these picks.. please explain this paradox?

Oh yeah you can’t, so instead you’ll ignore this contradiction and a year from now when I repeat I thought Perkins was a bad pick, you’ll call me a BB honk despite numerous examples to the contrary.
 
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One-If-By-Sea

In the Starting Line-Up
Matt Judon is the new Trey Flowers for the Pats. Perkins isn’t big or strong enough to play DE, he’s not mobile or athletic enough to play OLB.

Maybe I’m wrong and he’s just a great football player but I doubt it.

Ice Ice can’t address above how I think he’s a bad pick, since I just approve of every BB move, but here we are...

I agree that Perkins is a bit of an enigma with great college results but questionable size and quickness. He does seem to use his hands exceptionally well, and seems to have a nose for where the play is going which are hard qualities to quantify - hence the enigma label. He is both exciting and potentially a bust which is probably why he dropped.

Perkins is quite strong and seems to have a knack of staying low to improve leverage. His strengths are less obvious but at the same time seem very natural and instinctive so I think he will be a great player to follow.
 

Wozzy

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
I agree that Perkins is a bit of an enigma with great college results but questionable size and quickness. He does seem to use his hands exceptionally well, and seems to have a nose for where the play is going which are hard qualities to quantify - hence the enigma label. He is both exciting and potentially a bust which is probably why he dropped.

Perkins is quite strong and seems to have a knack of staying low to improve leverage. His strengths are less obvious but at the same time seem very natural and instinctive so I think he will be a great player to follow.
He seems to have okay strength and good college production. Unfortunately many players have good college production and can’t play at the next level. I could be wrong, a few players also have average athleticism and are simply good smart football players... they’re just few and far between. I tend to lean towards not good enough until they prove me wrong.
 
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FredFromDartmouth

In the Starting Line-Up
Personally, after the first pick, I don't expect a lot of help from the draftees this year. Some one or two MIGHT step up.
I think just the opposite. I think it was an exceptional draft class, top to bottom. I expect that some of these guys will contribute right out of the gate. Mac Jone will probably not start on day one, but will probably be the starter by the end of the season.
 

FredFromDartmouth

In the Starting Line-Up
I had a 2nd on Mac, Barmore and Perkins. 4th on Stevenson and 5th or 6th on Sherman. 3rd on Mcgrone.

I had Mac graded one or two in the whole draft! [I should note that this is based on my 3 minutes of watching highlights, ha!] Of course, we cannot tell at this point. Time will tell if he is the greatest steal of the 2021 draft, or a middling mid-rounder. If the former, woe to the San Francisco brain-trust.....they will be sweating blood during training camp and the pre-season. I think that they over-thought their pick..
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Antonio Brown’s New Live-In Chef
PatsFans.com Supporter
I posted my thoughts on Mac and Barmore prior to the draft.

Besides that I knock 2 of the remaining picks as outright bad, and two more as incomplete with just okay college production... is that me rubber stamping every BB pick? Is that me saying BB is omniscient despite saying I dislike these picks.. please explain this paradox?

Oh yeah you can’t, so instead you’ll ignore this contradiction and a year from now when I repeat I thought Perkins was a bad pick, you’ll call me a BB honk despite numerous examples to the contrary.

I don’t care if you’re right or wrong about Perkins. People are influenced retroactively by their belief or lack of belief in the Patriots. That was the entire point. You yourself:

1622730510381.png

Then you post grades which are post-draft and scream at me for pointing this out.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Matt Judon is the new Trey Flowers for the Pats. Perkins isn’t big or strong enough to play DE, he’s not mobile or athletic enough to play OLB.

Maybe I’m wrong and he’s just a great football player but I doubt it.

Ice Ice can’t address above how I think he’s a bad pick, since I just approve of every BB move, but here we are...

Im not saying he will play Flowers role, I am saying I consider him to be a Tre aFlowers like steal, as both were taken in mid rounds, and I expect Perkins to become a very good player for them. You don’t think that will happen, so we disagree on him, time will. tell who got it right. Judon and Perkins are almost identical in size.
 

Wozzy

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
I don’t care if you’re right or wrong about Perkins. People are influenced retroactively by their belief or lack of belief in the Patriots. That was the entire point. You yourself:

View attachment 33240

Then you post grades which are post-draft and scream at me for pointing this out.
Something is missing above... not quite sure what?

But I don't change my opinions on prospects retroactively... period. I also leave open the possibility that I am wrong at any given point, too many times I've called a prospect an "average athlete" to have them turn into a productive player.

Either way, you chase me around this site calling me a BB honk or a homer, then can't even address it when I call 50% of his draft picks questionable or outright poor. You should see my critiques of a really bad drafting team like the Raiders. You came here to call me a BB honk and now you look foolish, don't try so hard.
 

Wozzy

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Im not saying he will play Flowers role, I am saying I consider him to be a Tre aFlowers like steal, as both were taken in mid rounds, and I expect Perkins to become a very good player for them. You don’t think that will happen, so we disagree on him, time will. tell who got it right. Judon and Perkins are almost identical in size.
We can agree to disagree and see who's correct later. Judon exiting college was 22 pounds heavier than Perkins, was stronger and a better athlete... let's see. Once they become Patriots I root for them all.
 

Zuma

2035 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
PatsFans.com Supporter
It's my belief Bill wants to have the all time wins record...and if we never win another Super Bowl...I'll be happy with that achievement. IMO he should step down as GM and focus on coaching and less on other areas. He's burning candles at both ends...and if he isn't then he's not getting the job done. He's going to be Fukcing 70 soon. I'm posting this here because it's draft related....I want The Wolf to be given complete GM duties...with title (and Das Ziegler as Director of Player Personnel)....there I said it...FIGHT ME. I'm on Team Bill...I want him to be just as productive as ever as head coach and have the all time wins....and I think he needs to be more focused on coaching to do that. I'm drinking the cool-aid.
 
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Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
It's my belief Bill wants to have the all time wins record...and if we never win another Super Bowl...I'll be happy with that achievement. IMO he should step down as GM and focus on coaching and less on other areas. He's burning candles at both ends...and if he isn't then he's not getting the job done. He's going to be Fukcing 70 soon. I'm posting this here because it's draft related....I want The Wolf to be given complete GM duties...with title (and Das Ziegler as Director of Player Personnel)....there I said it...FIGHT ME. I'm on Team Bill...I want him to be just as productive as ever as head coach and have the all time wins....and I think he needs to be more focused on coaching to do that. I'm drinking the cool-aid.

Zeigler was already given Caserio position, and there is no way Belichick will demote him after talking him out of going to Denver. And no one on this board has any knowledge of what role and contribution guys like Wolf and Groh have made, the only people who know that are those working in Patriots management. I have asked repeatedly for those touting Wolf to provide us with factual information on what his role and contribution is and all that has been provided is that Ron Wolf is his daddy, and there are pictures of him in the same room as Belichick.
 

Zuma

2035 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
PatsFans.com Supporter
Zeigler was already given Caserio position, and there is no way Belichick will demote him after talking him out of going to Denver. And no one on this board has any knowledge of what role and contribution guys like Wolf and Groh have made, the only people who know that are those working in Patriots management. I have asked repeatedly for those touting Wolf to provide us with factual information on what his role and contribution is and all that has been provided is that Ron Wolf is his daddy, and there are pictures of him in the same room as Belichick.
Zeigler is not Director of Player Personnel...he does not have that title and I doubt you have inside information that he does. I'm more interested in GM duties slowly handed to someone else so Bill can focus more or coaching in these twilight years.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Zeigler is not Director of Player Personnel...he does not have that title and I doubt you have inside information that he does. I'm more interested in GM duties slowly handed to someone else so Bill can focus more or coaching in these twilight years.

Zeigler was assistant director of player personnel under Caserio and Belichick promoted him to keep him from going to Denver, As for “ inside information” I have absolutely none, and nor do you or anyone else on this board, which has been my point all along. It’s the people who have been screaming for Wolf who have been talking out of their asses and pretending to have information as to who counsels Belichick on what, and what that counsel has been. All we know is that when Caserio left Belichick promoted Zeigler replace him, which is why The Herald just ran an article discussing Zeigler taking over for Caserio, personally I could care less who Belichick promoted and who he doesn’t, because he’s the one who actually knows what these guys are saying and doing. Had he promoted Wolf or Groh I would have been fine with that as well, my only interest is in them getting back to consistent contender status.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Zeigler is not Director of Player Personnel...he does not have that title and I doubt you have inside information that he does. I'm more interested in GM duties slowly handed to someone else so Bill can focus more or coaching in these twilight years.

FYI there is an interesting article on this topic in the Providence Journal.
 
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