Warren to IR, Burgess reinstated

[Patspsycho]

The question I want to ask here is who do we have that can conceivably split time with Wright at RDE? Not what we ideally want at the spot, but he is good for a few reps there.

 

[Deus Irae]

Talent at the top has thinned some but we still have five guys that I feel comfortable with in varying roles some more than others.

Wilfork, G. Warren, Wright, Lewis, and Pryor.

5 guys for 3 spots seems to still be decent depth. 3 guys with a lot of NFL starting experience and 2 guys with defined roles.

That doesn't even factor in guys like Brace, Deadrick, Love, Weston and/or Richard who may or may not make the team and who we have no idea or a bad idea about their skills.

Wilfork, Wright, and Pryor are DT's and don't really work as 3-4 DE's. On that list, Warren and Lewis are the only two who could be considered 3-4 DE's. Brace is also a guy who would work better as a DT, though he did get some reps early on in mini-camp as a DE when Warren went down. We'd have to hope for him to come in and play that position well (which would probably require him to drop some weight and fast), Deaderick to mature very quickly, Lewis to morph into a starting DE, or for the team to get on the phone with another team and acquire a starting quality DE.

Also, G. Warren washed out of a previous 2-gap system because he couldn't hold up against the run, and Lewis has never played in one.

 

[Kontradiction]

Also, G. Warren washed out of a previous 2-gap system because he couldn't hold up against the run, and Lewis has never played in one.

As of right now, we're looking at throwing something against a wall and hoping it sticks.

 

[RayClay]

Out of the grab bag of new DL maybe Richard could show something. Very book smart and character is a plus, we paid him regular wages for the practice squad, to have him turn down Cleveland. Seems like the type to use his practice squad time wisely, reportedly stronger, and he's 6'4".

 

[Gwedd]

Well you're a Welshman so I'm not going to take your word for it.

Bwahahahahahahaha! Stop it, Seamus... yer killin' me...

:eat3:

 

[Ring 6]

Wilfork, Wright, and Pryor are DT's and don't really work as 3-4 DE's. On that list, Warren and Lewis are the only two who could be considered 3-4 DE's. Brace is also a guy who would work better as a DT, though he did get some reps early on in mini-camp as a DE when Warren went down. We'd have to hope for him to come in and play that position well (which would probably require him to drop some weight and fast), Deaderick to mature very quickly, Lewis to morph into a starting DE, or for the team to get on the phone with another team and acquire a starting quality DE.

Mike Wright is a 34 DE. He played there more than anyone on our team last year.

 

[BlueThunder]

I trust BB knows what he needs at that position and will address it shortly.


In BB WE TRUST

 

[Rob0729]

This is exactly why i hate posts talking about why players wouldn't play well with the Pats, because they run a different type of 3-4

Marcus Spears sucked in Parcells system just as much as Wades. He was never good. You are making things up.

Spears never lived up to his draft status, but that is far different than sucking. I look it as how many people here judge Maroney, most of these people who think Maroney sucks is because he was a first round pick and hasn't lived up to his draft selection but if he was a seventh round pick, he would be a great player.

Spears played far better in Parcells system. He played well in the system. He wasn't a star or anywhere near his mid-first round status, but he was an above average starter at the position. If he was a third round pick, no one would have said he sucked.

His strengths are his ability to tie up blockers and read and react which is far more attuned to the Pats system than the Cowboys' current system.

Here is Scout Inc. take for an outsider's fairly unbiased view (they give him a 70 grade that puts him at the low end of being a good starter):

Spears has good size and strength. He reacts quickly and does a good job of establishing early leverage off the ball. He uses good pad level and hand use to stack blocks quickly at the point of attack. He is strong enough to squeeze down gaps, once engaged. He gains good extension with his hands and he can shed with good timing. He plays with good vision into the backfield showing a quick, short burst. He has enough quickness to run in front of reach blocks, while keeping his feet in a lateral flow. He has adequate acceleration in the open, but doesn't have top-notch speed or range. Occasionally, he has trouble with double teams. He can be sealed quick or driven back when he is late to recognize and sink his weight. As a pass rusher, he does a good job containing the pocket and using strength to apply pressure. He is more effective using power than speed. He shows only average speed upfield. He can be inconsistent with his hand use and will stall when offensive tackles lock on quick sets. He doesn't change directions quickly. He is physical with his rip move attempts, but doesn't have the quick acceleration to clear past the block with much frequency.

Marcus Spears Scouting - Dallas Cowboys - ESPN

And by the way, if you don't understand there is a completely different skill set for a DE in an one gap vs. a two gap, you might not want to be criticizing my assessment. A DE who struggles in a Wade Phillips one gap system can certainly do well in the Pats' two gap, 3-4.

People need to stop judging players' play on the field based on their draft status on a sliding scale. Just because a player was a first round pick, he doesn't lose extra points because he is a good, not a great player.

 

[spacecrime]

Wait a moment -- if a guy is IRed in TC, doesn't he have to pass through waivers?

I mean, isn't that what the Pats just proved with that Denver safety whose name I'm not retaining?

No, vested veterans do not have to pass through waivers.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I don't think it's the end of the world that warren is on IR. It'll be interesting.

I had an idea of kind of a "big 4-2-5" with 4 DL/DE types, instead of the lighter DEs like burgess.

If it's Warren's hip though, his career may be over. I wonder what happens then. Do they just cut him? Do they owe him anything for this year?

As for Burgess, I think he's kind of a bum. Why wasn't he here? Didn't he just sign a contract? So the only reason he's here is so that he doesn't have to pay back his bonus, is my guess. I bet he stinks up the place to get himself cut and that way he can keep his bonus. They should fine him for missed practicies at least.

 

[Ring 6]

I think :

Ty Warren is better 2gap run defender than anyone we have to step into his spot.
Ty Warren used to be one of the best of the group we have as a sub package inside rusher, but due to injuries hasnt even been used in that role for over a year.
This injury happened in a spot where we have a number of capable players.
Every team loses players. When you have good depth behind the ones you do lose that is fortunate.
Not having Warren is not smething that cannot be overcome.
Not having Mankins and'or Kaczur is not something that cannot be overcome.
When too many of those happen, though, together they cannot be overcome.
This is certainly a serious blow to the team.
I am more disappointed in losing the improvement of a healthy Warren than having a decline at the position from the bangedup, less effective Warren of last year.
The impact of this injury will be limited to the half of the downs we play base D, and I feel we have capable guys to step in.
I would feel better about no Warren if I felt better about our OLB run defense.

In response to comments Ive seen.

4-3? This changes nothing because we would have 3 34 DL and one 34 OLB as our front 4 in a 43.
We don't go more than 4 deep on the DL often, so barrin further injuires, this just increases the reps of Wilfork,Wright, Warren and Lewis. It doesnt really open up significant playing time beyond that.
For th Pryor fans, it only gets him on the field more if he surpasses Lewis.

 

[spacecrime]

I'm not really sure how this would help with losing Ty Warren; Brace is a backup NT, and that's about it.

Kindly keep your priorities straight. It doesn't have to make sense. The important thing is to panick. Basically, you must say that every player who gets hurt or traded or cut or holds out or for any reason isn't here is the one player whom the Pats cannot afford to lose and now we are doomed.

 

[mgteich]

Did you mean Lewis?

Seriously, I don't see how Brace is relevant.

We have Warren, Wilfork, Wright, Lewis and Pryor. Five defensive linemen get all the reps. In a sense, we have G. Warren and Lewis instead of Ty Warren and Green.

Time for Brace to step into the void. Get himself over that hamstring or whatever it is that's holding him out...I'll bet that's what it is. He pulled his hammy running the conditioning test and hasn't been able to re-take it yet.

 

[eom]

And by the way, if you don't understand there is a completely different skill set for a DE in an one gap vs. a two gap, you might not want to be criticizing my assessment.

is that a threat?

 

[Rob0729]

is that a threat?

It was more of an observation, but I have been known to be an internet tough guy. So take it any way you want.

 

[Metaphors]

1) 4-3 vs. 3-4 isn't the question. The real issue is whether or not to change the base alignment of the inside guys (NT and ILB) and the 2-gap scheme. I doubt that either of these things will change.

2) Let's just sign Schoebel. I'm sure he will love the flights from Boston to Houston. And money shouldn't be an issue. Schoebel should be cheap and its not like the Pats have any other contract situations to deal with. Actually, while we are in fantasyland where all transactions happen by magic, can we trade Sanders for Ware too?

3) In drafting Brace, Pryor, Richard, Deaderick and Weston, you would think Belichick might have considered that they might actually have to play at some point.

4) Lewis and GWarren seemed to be redundant. Not so much anymore.

Losing Warren isn't a good thing, but it just provides an opportunity for someone to step up. There are plenty of candidates.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I say don't sign anyone. Let the youngsters prove themselves, play with what we have.

Who's the most promising young DE we got, Deaderick?

 

[shmessy]

From the looks of Wilfork last night, he'd need to drop a few lbs.

Lord, he did look like he was having quintuplets. Usually, he only looks like he's have quads.

 

[102 Pat]

I just got home from work and turned the TV to Total Access where I learned of Warren on IR and sure enough, Pats hater extraordinaire Marshall Faulk was projecting gloom and doom saying "Bill Belichick must be scratching his head right now", sure Faulk...

 

[mgteich]

I agree that we don't need to sign a DL, other than perhaps someone to compete for the OLB/DE position (the position Burgess held last year).

We have Warren, Wilfork, Wright, Lewis and Pryor as locks at this point. Five defensive linemen get almost all the reps (not counting the Burgess position).

The question is who best fills the last DL spot. The choices are Brace, Weston, Deaderick, Richard and Love. Let the competition begin. The winner makes the 53, some make the Practice Squad, one or more could make the IR, some could get cut.
========

I say don't sign anyone. Let the youngsters prove themselves, play with what we have.

Who's the most promising young DE we got, Deaderick?