Vince Wilfork...on WEEI...

[Leave No Doubt]

Re: Vince Wilfork....on WEEI...

I've agreed with nearly every move BB has made with regards to letting high priced free agents go, whether it be trading them, cutting them, or letting them walk. I supported the Seymour and Branch trades, thought Ty Law wanted too many years, thought Milloy was over the hill, and thought Asante wasn't worth what the Eagles gave him. But letting Vince walk I cannot accept.
Co-sign. It's real hard to embrace the business side of football when it comes to certain players and Vince is one of those players. His attitude last season was fantastic; he put the contract talk behind him because he looked ahead to the season and he wanted to play football. For the Patriots.

We don't have enough of those guys left as it is.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I'm just asking you why you're a crappy poster. You obviously don't have to answer that question if you don't feel comfortable doing so.

And why would I put you on ignore? Nothing you say bothers me. I thought maybe you could benefit from some free advice about your posting style. You definitely don't have to take it.

I'm not a crappy poster......just read your own posts, and this will become obvious to you

nothing you say bothers me either.........you even sound like a somewhat pleasant chap if it weren't for your whining

I appreciate your advice.........I really do.......but I recommend you read your own posts before you give up your day job.......just because you agree with Rob, does not make me wrong.......all of your posts are as baseless as mine.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Vince Wilfork....on WEEI...

I've agreed with nearly every move BB has made with regards to letting high priced free agents go, whether it be trading them, cutting them, or letting them walk. I supported the Seymour and Branch trades, thought Ty Law wanted too many years, thought Milloy was over the hill, and thought Asante wasn't worth what the Eagles gave him. But letting Vince walk I cannot accept.

Co-sign. It's real hard to embrace the business side of football when it comes to certain players and Vince is one of those players. His attitude last season was fantastic; he put the contract talk behind him because he looked ahead to the season and he wanted to play football. For the Patriots.

We don't have enough of those guys left as it is.

I don't even think its necessary to keep wilfork......the only thing that bothers me is that certain players deserve to be treated in an upstanding way.....wilfork is one of those....a year ago he said he can't stand the business end of the game

there's a better way to make this go down without compromising the goals of the team overall.........too bad the pats don't' see it this way

 

[tobias funke]

Maybe you should read my posts, because it's pretty clear that you're not actually doing so.

I don't agree with Robo any more than I agree with anyone in particular here. Whether or not I agree with him is in fact besides the point.

The only difference to me between both of your posts in this thread is that it seems like he's at least trying to avoid constantly insulting you, and relying less on conjecture and emotion than you seem to be.

That's really all I'm speaking towards. I couldn't care less which one of you is 'right' about a situation none of us have any control over and aren't close enough to really know anything about beyond what is filtered down through the news and radio.

I have a feeling you'll take my advice to heart though, even if you don't want to admit so publicly.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Maybe you should read my posts, because it's pretty clear that you're not actually doing so.

I don't agree with Robo any more than I agree with anyone in particular here. Whether or not I agree with him is in fact besides the point.

The only difference to me between both of your posts in this thread is that it seems like he's at least trying to avoid constantly insulting you, and relying less on conjecture and emotion than you seem to be.

That's really all I'm speaking towards. I couldn't care less which one of you is 'right' about a situation none of us have any control over and aren't close enough to really know anything about beyond what is filtered down through the news and radio.

I have a feeling you'll take my advice to heart though, even if you don't want to admit so publicly.

I think its just you..........I have no more or less conjecture than anyone.....even you in your most recent post........

I do appreciate your apparent concern........it warms me to the ****les to know that someone cares so much........but the true value of what you propose is compromised by your own obvious lack of posting ability

 

[tobias funke]

The classic I Know You Are But What Am I defense.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

The classic I Know You Are But What Am I defense.

nothing for nothing, you know.........almost as overused as the 'please post better' schtick you're pulling

at least Rob talks football

carry on

 

[tobias funke]

This isn't shtick dude I really care about your ability to contribute positively to this forum.

I think you have a lot of untapped potential that you're not using because you're so focused on being a dip****.

 

[mgcolby]

The classic I Know You Are But What Am I defense.

You can't debate with someone who's position is completely based upon an opinion, that is derived of generalizations, assumptions and a clouded point of view.

But it is entertaining to read.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

This isn't shtick dude I really care about your ability to contribute positively to this forum.

I think you have a lot of untapped potential that you're not using because you're so focused on being a dip****.

why would I use you as any kind of data point? I've seen your posts in other threads........you don't really ever say anything that can't be typed by just randomly pounding the keys like a monkey

you should maybe take a evening course or buy a training CD to learn what it is you are trying to do.......you sound kind of lost and overwhelmed right now.....I can sense it in the tension of your posts

 

[tanked_as_usual]

You can't debate with someone who's position is completely based upon an opinion, that is derived of generalizations, assumptions and a clouded point of view.

But it is entertaining to read.

let me know when you produce a fact........buddy boy

 

[duce110]

Maybe they dont want to resign him, that can be the possibility... Regardless of how much everyone argues about Vince, its up to the Pats... Are you going to be a fan if they dont resign him or franchise him for the year and let him walk... Let the Pats do what they do... At the end of the day, we are still gonna be Pats fans so let it go...

 

[Wolfpack]

the real irony is that seymour threw a hissy fit......he got rewarded

branch threw a hissy fit.......he got rewarded

wilfork went by principle and played out his contract ... and he gets this

I do find it utterly stupid that the pats pick wilfork to make some kind of statement or change in policy.

This is hardly a "change in policy." Ty Law threw a major hissy fit and didn't get rewarded at all. Lawyer Milloy threw a hissy fit and got cut.

he knows the market AND what he means to the pats.....and while his leverage is limited, he could easily shoot his way out of town by making his relationship with BB an unworkable one.....there are alot of things you can do without getting slapped with the 'conduct detrimental' when you aren't even under contract

Ty Law said the exact same thing 6 years ago.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Maybe they dont want to resign him, that can be the possibility... Regardless of how much everyone argues about Vince, its up to the Pats... Are you going to be a fan if they dont resign him or franchise him for the year and let him walk... Let the Pats do what they do... At the end of the day, we are still gonna be Pats fans so let it go...

I brought that up in a separate thread......maybe the plan is to just tag and trade him

but my contention is not what they do but rather how they do it indiscriminately

 

[Wolfpack]

The issue isn't whether or not BB will act like a petulant child, although that's how you're painting him.

He will act the way history has demonstrated he will act. If you consider that acting like a "petulant child" then that's your interpretation.

If Wilfork stays away until the last possible moment in late November, then he will not see any serious playing time for the remainder of the season, and he will not have the market value of a player coming off a dominating season. It is foolish for anyone to think otherwise.

The issue is what the impact will be upon Wilfork. And, as I noted, players that get injured during a franchise year lose millions of dollars on the next contract, and they'll never get that back.

Well, there are insurance policies to counter that risk.

As for returning to form, veterans in their prime tend to return mostly to form quite quickly, as long as they weren't lazy in the offseason. That's part of why they hate training camp, since it becomes a grind rather than something needed to get back into shape.

Oh yeah? When? When has a superstar veteran held out for 10 weeks and then just showed up and returned to dominating form?

 

[Wolfpack]

wilfork isn't negotiating anything in public.....there have been no negotiations in case you didn't know....if he was greedy and only cared about money, then he would have made this stink a year ago.

Wilfork took his case and his grievances to the WEEI airwaves yesterday in a very pronounced, public manner. If that ain't trying to "negotiate in public" then I don't know what is. But like many athletes, he doesn't know how to do it intelligently. He was stupid to call $7 million a slap in the face. You lose sympathy with the public by saying those sorts of things.

the funny lesson that is going to be learned by players is to not wait until your contract is up.......you have much more leverage while you have a year left on your deal.

Maybe, maybe not. I am not sure there is much leverage when you are under contract, cannot talk with any other team, and can get fined for missing practices.

 

[Deus Irae]

He will act the way history has demonstrated he will act. If you consider that acting like a "petulant child" then that's your interpretation.

Refusing to play an elite player because he exercised his rights under the CBA after you were sticking the franchise tag on him under the CBA would be acting like a petulant child. I'm not sure how you'd pretend it was anything but that.

If Wilfork stays away until the last possible moment in late November, then he will not see any serious playing time for the remainder of the season, and he will not have the market value of a player coming off a dominating season. It is foolish for anyone to think otherwise.

But it's not though. What's foolish is thinking that it would unfold in the manner you describe.

Well, there are insurance policies to counter that risk.

Yes, and that solves everything, which is why all players love getting franchised. Oh, wait....

Oh yeah? When? When has a superstar veteran held out for 10 weeks and then just showed up and returned to dominating form?

If you're going to tie to specific terms, perhaps you could list the hundreds of times when a superstar veteran held out for 10 weeks and the player did not "just showed up and returned to dominating form"....

My invoking training camp should have made it pretty clear that I wasn't being specific and pointing to a 10 week holdout.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

This is hardly a "change in policy." Ty Law threw a major hissy fit and didn't get rewarded at all. Lawyer Milloy threw a hissy fit and got cut.
Ty Law said the exact same thing 6 years ago.

nothing like ty law.......ty law was cut.....lawyer milloy was cut

I am sure wilfork will not have a problem if the pats don't tag him

 

[Wolfpack]

Refusing to play an elite player because he exercised his rights under the CBA after you were sticking the franchise tag on him under the CBA would be acting like a petulant child. I'm not sure how you'd pretend it was anything but that.

Bullcrap. You can't just show up at Thanksgiving and pretend to be even remotely up to speed with all the rest of the league. Belichick would be stupid to just throw him in like nothing happened. It would be bad for the team and bad for the locker room. He would have very limited duty for the remainder of the season.

Apparently you consider a coach acting in his team's best interest as being a "petulant child." But in your world, I guess it isn't acting like a "petulant child" by holding out for the absolute maximum amount of time allowed by the CBA.

But it's not though. What's foolish is thinking that it would unfold in the manner you describe.

You must be very new to following football.

If you're going to tie to specific terms, perhaps you could list the hundreds of times when a superstar veteran held out for 10 weeks and the player did not "just showed up and returned to dominating form"....

You're the one who thinks Wilfork can just show up in late November and have a dominating 6 weeks. It falls on you to support that statement, which you obviously cannot do because you are trying to turn it around and have me prove a negative (which cannot be done).

My invoking training camp should have made it pretty clear that I wasn't being specific and pointing to a 10 week holdout.

Gee, silly me. You said (direct quote, your words, post #199) "If Vince comes in for 6 weeks and is his old, dominant self by the end of the year, the offers will still be there." Now you're desperately trying to backtrack away from that quote, trying to say you "made it pretty clear" you were not being specific.

Do you even, like, actually understand your own posts?

 

[Wolfpack]

nothing like ty law.......ty law was cut.....lawyer milloy was cut

I am sure wilfork will not have a problem if the pats don't tag him

Actually, the Ty Law situation is very similar. Ty Law was not cut the season he threw his temper tantrum, and that was why he was so upset. He wanted to be cut following Super Bowl 38 because he had a career year and wanted to go out and get that big contract. His salary for the next year was pretty high (like a franchise number) but he wanted a brand new deal on the open market. What angered Law so much was the Patriots actually didn't cut him during that offseason. So he tried to "shoot his way out of town" and his plan failed.

Then when push came to shove, he reported to the team with his tail tucked safely between his legs - just like Wilfork (Mr. Integrity in your eyes) will if he is franchised.