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Vick accepts plea deal [merged]

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by Chris, Aug 20, 2007.

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  1. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: Vick accepts plea deal

    I don't know Mo--this really leaves a lot of wiggle room regarding gambling:

     
  2. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Vick accepts plea deal

    It doesn't matter. Got to the statement of facts where he stipulates that he did engage in gambling in violation of law and that would be proved in court if they went to trial. He doesn't have to offer details, as did the others, since his statement of fact isn't being used against anyone but himself...just agreeing to stipulate to the allegations being fact is the important thing. Vick's toadies will latch on to "but he didn't say...", but it doesn't matter because neither did he deny what was said by others. His statement therefore basically comes down to "yup...yup...um...yup..."
     
  3. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Vick accepts plea deal

    Mo -
    While the prosecutor has accepted the plea deal, the judge has not. And its the judge who has the final say.

    Part of me honestly hopes that the judge rejects the plea deal or adds stipulations during court that forces Vick to have to make another decision on the spot. I think that if Vick only gets 3 years and $250K, he's getting off lightly.

    But I also believe he will be anathema in the NFL. I don't think a single team would touch him. Regardless of him only being 29 or 30 when he gets out of prison.
     
  4. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Re: Vick admits to gambling!!!

    Hmmm....I will check the last thing I heard was that gambling and dog murder were not part of it.
     
  5. Richter

    Richter In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: Vick admits to gambling!!!

    That's not what I'm hearing. I'm hearing he admits as part of the conspiracy charge that the dogfighting operation engaged in gambling, but that he himself did not engage in any betting or killing of dogs.

    EDIT: And now, the actual pleas are available on ESPN as PDFs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2007
  6. Va_Pats_Fan

    Va_Pats_Fan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Re: Vick admits to gambling!!!

    MODS:
    merge please...I totally missed the other thread...my bad.
     
  7. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Vick accepts plea deal

    He'll accept it, and if it miffs him a bit to do so knowing Vick's camp will try as hard as they can to spin it as a non admission of certain facts he in fact does stipulate to in a rather glossed over general sort of way for future spin purposes...he'll sentence him accordingly. :D

    In the end he'll get his 12-18+ months, plus probation I gather, and the Commish and Arthur and even Poindexter will have all they will ever need to do whatever they decide to do going forward.
     
  8. letekro

    letekro Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    He pled to the conspiracy charge. He CONSPIRED to break certain gambling laws. He did not actually gamble. This language would have been insisted on by his lawyers so as to avoid a potential lifetime ban from Goodell.
     
  9. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Pro Bowl Player

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  10. ursa99

    ursa99 On the Roster

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    Vicks lawyers got him the best deal they could. By not admitting gambling he keeps an option open to someday return to the NFL. Admitting gambling could mean a lifetime ban. (Pete Rose).

    As of now Vick has signed a piece of paper that will go in front of a Federal Judge who is bound by nothing in terms of accepting it or sentencing. Vick knows this but like I said it is the best deal he could get.
     
  11. Va_Pats_Fan

    Va_Pats_Fan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Re: Vick accepts plea deal

    The state may also file charges...animal cruelty, etc.
     
  12. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Praying for SammyBlue Cat PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here's the plea agreement:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0824/vicksummary.pdf

    I'm in federal court every week, so this is what is going to happen:

    It is called a Rule 11 hearing and the purpose is to convince the judge that
    a.) the defendent has plead guilty on his own accord without any coersion, and without any other promises than the ones written into the agreement.
    b.) tha the defendent knows that the judge is not bound by the sugguested sentence, and that the judge can go up or down on the length of the sentence, and THE DEFENDENT DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPEAL OR WITHDRAW HIS GUILTY PLEA IF HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE SENTECE (he can appeal the sentence).
    c.) the government will offer up a single witness (usually the case agent) and he will summerize the evidence that the government has, and what they could prove if the case were to go to trail.
    d.) the defendent will then be asked by the judge to say aloud what he did, and to admit to the crimes, then the defendent will be asked by the judge if he is pleading guilty "because you are in fact, guilty"

    If the Judge is satisfied, then he will accept the plea and task US probation with compiling what they call a "pre-sentence report" which will recommend the amount of time that Vick will serve according to the US sentencing commissions guidelines, Judges usually do not go outside the "guidelines"

    So Vick will still have to testify in this hearing and he will be asked very direct questions by the Judge. According to the plea agreement, Vick put up the money for the fight "purse" and shared in the profit if his dog won.

    Plenty of ammo in this agreement for the Comish to ban him.

    BTW, one of the fights alledged in the agreement, appears to have happened DURING THE FOOTBALL season, imagine if your QB is travellin around the country fighting dogs, instead of watching film. At least if TB isn't watching film, he is with a Supermodel, and who can blame him for that?
     
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For those who agonize over the various spins, let Florio wade through the crap for you and deliver you to the bottom line. And he's right about ESPN - they just got spun like the media often does by agents in contract deals...

    VICK ADMITS EVERYTHING

    We've reviewed in detail the plea agreement signed by Michael Vick on Thursday, along with the statement of facts.

    Notwithstanding the anonymous source who told the anonymous reporter at ESPN that Vick would not admit to killing dogs or to gambling, Vick admits to everything.

    In paragraph 1, Vick pleads guilty to conspiracy to establish, maintain, etc. an interstate gambling enterprise and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting.

    In paragraph 2, Vick admits that the Surry County property to which he initially said he never goes was the main staging area for housing and training pit bulls for fighting.

    In paragraph 3, Vick admits to being involved in dog fights at the Surry County property, and to participating in dog fights in other states.

    In paragraph 4, Vick admits that the enterprise involved gambling activities in violation of Virginia law. Vick denies that he placed side bets on any fights, or that he received process from the purses. (However, he admits that he was the primary source of funds for the operation. If the winnings went only to his co-defendants, then that's less money Vick had to give them to get them to continue to tend to the operation while he was "at work" for the Atlanta Falcons.)

    In paragraph 9, Vick admits that he began acquiring dogs for the operation in "2001-2002," and that the "Bad Newz Kennels" were established in 2002.

    In paragraph 12, Vick admits that he knew the other defendants "killed a number of dogs" that did not perform well in testing sessions in 2002. Vick denies killing any dogs at that time.

    In paragraph 32, Vick admits that in April 2007 -- the same month in which he say face-to-face with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and denied that dog fighting was occurring on his land -- he agreed with Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips to kill six-to-eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions. Here's the key passage:

    "[A]ll of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. VICK agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK."

    Case closed. He admits to gambling, and he admits to killing dogs.

    Someone at ESPN has some serious explaining to do.

    http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
     
  14. letekro

    letekro Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Re: Vick accepts plea deal



    No admission of gambling. Vick was not charged with federal gambling charges (e.g., under the RICO statutes), although they certainly would've been included in the threatened superseding indictment. This was the main inducement to plea out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2007
  15. PatsFan-NH

    PatsFan-NH Practice Squad Player

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    Re: Vick accepts plea deal

    Duh, he is scum of course he lied. Ron Mexico...herpes; drug carrying water bottle; history of his posse behaving badly in public at NFL events; flipping the fans off. Gee, how could anyone ever doubt he would tell the truth.

    Only a fool would have believed him. Or someone looking for cover. Again, whether he talked to the commissioner, Mother Teresa or God, is not germane to the fact that he was in trouble with the law. That sort of behavior is shameful, and is usually the result of illegal activity. It isn't even a case that he was associating in the wrong place or with the wrong people (mafia types) or he said/she said situation. It was his property that was involved.

    They are not an adjunct of any legal system. It is not their place to investigate anything. It is their place to turn over any information about wrongdoing to the proper authorities and let the police do their job. Notice how there has been a deafening silence from the NFL about Vick naming other current or former athletes who also have fighting dogs or are fight aficionados ? Even the prosecutors have not mentioned it, I am sure after NFL schmoozing.

    The fact is, the NFL had taken no action against Vick, though he was involved in a criminal investigation taking place on his premises. The fact is that they said 'lets wait and see', when that escalated to Federal Indictments. Their 'investigation' is only for 2 purposes: to look like they are taking action, while allowing them to stall and do nothing, and to cover their bacon in case there are other athletes involved in this activity. You can bet the purpose of the NFL investigation is to cover up, and destroy any evidence, and to make sure no one else will talk.

    But that is not what they said. They said they were attempting to determine the truth of the facts. And so what if they are looking for others, that has no bearing on their action (non-action) on Vick.

    No you if you are whimsical enough to own property in Afghanistan, I will let you keep it.

    You might want to take notice that the other defendants who pled guilty are still free, other than the dunce who violated his parole on another case.

    As I understand it, before they are sentenced there are all kinds of things that have to happen. Including an investigation to determine how to apply all the rules and guidelines when they sentence them. I think its called a probation report.

    After the date on Monday, the next date on the docket (for all defendants, I believe) is November 26th. So while he may not make it to November, it is unlikely he is in jail before the season starts; unless he gets bagged for perjury in the courtroom. Then again if the Judge throws the deal out he may have to go to trial in November, in which case he will be free and able to play, given the non-action by the NFL.

    Uh, Total Access on the NFLN, they repeat each one like 300 times.


    Explains how you ended up with property in Afghanistan doesn't it.

    The union hasn't said boo. They too got tens of thousands, or more emails about fan anger and outrage. Upshaw said so in the PC, and looked sick and scared to boot.

    And yes they are all dancing around the money and the shame of losing such a 'great talent', but it should be about what he did and their taking action to make it clear that it is not acceptable in the NFL.

    Have you seen all the talking heads and players/former players who are all giving the scenarios and timelines for his return, Not even a question of if. Its like all he has is an annoying parking ticket to take care of. That is a direct reflection of the fact that the NFL is not taking Vick’s actions seriously, only his impact on their image. Apparently the only person in the NFL who thought he shouldn't be allowed back, had to be quoted anonymously in one of Don Banks' articles on SI.COM about what coaches and GMs are saying regarding Vick's future in the NFL.

    They don't even have to ban him for life now. They could just ban him for the season, and that gives them time to see what will come out in terms of the gambling. But they won't even do that. Vick is a stupid scumbag responsible for his actions, but he has been enabled, and is still being coddled by people who do know better.
     
  16. MoLewisrocks

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    Mike is a lawyer, and he's also not dense. Do you grasp what a conspiracy charge is and what pleading guilty to it entails? Each member of the conspiracy who pleads guilty to one aspect of the crime is guilty of all aspects of the crime. Add to that Vick was the sole financial source for the venture. Bought the land, built the house, kept the property in his name, paid for the dogs, paid some to care for the dogs, put up the money the enterprise gambled on individual fights, absorbed the losses and put the winnings back into the business by letting the others retain them in part to cover operating expenses, admits he was there when the dogs were killed in April of this year and doesn't specifically deny his co-defendents claims that he participated in that killing - in fact he agrees to generally stipulate he was. He also stipulates that the enterprise was set up for the purpose of gambling in violation of Virginia law and that the prosecution could prove that at trial.

    ESPN did his agent a solid by floating a trial baloon in the form of an unattributed piece spinning the plea agreement as not admitting to gambling or killing dogs. He did admit to both, but now their are pre existing spin cycles in motion to argue over which deflects just a little bit if heat from Mike Vick's sorry ass on the day his plea becomes public.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2007
  17. MoLewisrocks

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    ESPN is slowly re-evaluating it's take on all this. By tomorrow they should have it right.

    This is all about Team Vick trying to spin the plea into something less than it is. Vick was never accused of placing side bets - so by denying something he wasn't accused of his lawyers hope it appears as if he is denying something else...spin, rinse, repeat.

    "Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said, echoing language in plea agreements by three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty.


    The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants -- Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

    "Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.

    GREAT. NOBODY EVER SAID HE DID...


    This is what the ESPN version is really all about:

    "Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge Hudson understand all the facts and Michael's role," Vick's lead defense attorney, Billy Martin, said in telephone interview. "Michael's role was different than others associated with this incident."

    LOL Get out...you mean Michael wasn't just one of the stiffs, like maybe he was the kingpin of the entire operation...:rofl:

    Martin said Vick will "speak to the public and explain his actions," but he declined to say whether that will occur in court or in a news conference after Monday's hearing.

    The U.S. attorney's office, which has declined to comment on the case, said it would issue a statement after the hearing.



    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2989824
     
  18. gomezcat

    gomezcat Grumpy Englishman. Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are there any criminal lawyers on here?
     
  19. DaBruinz

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    Re: Vick accepts plea deal

    Only someone who has never been the boss of others would think like this. You also have never worked in a union setting. Gooddell, being the NEW BOSS, attempted to give Michael Vick the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately for you, it is very relevent that Vick talked to Gooddell because it destroys the premise for your rant that the NFL has handled this incorrectly. Had Gooddell entered that meeting without an open mind and punished Vick then and there, Vick would have ground for a lawsuit.

    And please, don't try to act all smart by pointing out facts that are well known in the situation. Especially when there are plenty of situations out there where a building owner isn't held responsible for the actions of his tenants. Particularly in apartment building in the city.

    As I said, its why Gooddell have the NFL investigation team start looking into things. Because Gooddell did NOT trust Vick. But until there was some REAL evidence, Gooddell's hands were tied. At least in the Pacman Jones issues, Jones was fool enough to admit to being their and to admit he did certain things. Vick didn't.

    These are the statements of someone who is ignorant about big business. Large corporations conduct their own investigations of their senior employees all the time if they are suspected of any wrong doing. Its done to ensure that its not just heresay and that there actually is something illegal being committed.

    Also, how the hell do you know that the NFL Investigators DIDN'T turn over any information they might have had. As for your other allegations, unless there is proof beyond Vick (who lost all his credibility for lying to the Commissioner), no one will believe him anyways. He made himself into the fall guy when he lied to Gooddell.

    The fact is that the NFL doesn't have to jump to the timeline of some ignorant fan who doesn't understand business and who doesn't understand the potential ramifications of punishing someone before they are convicted.

    The NFL already had their investigators working the case PRIOR to the charges being escalated to the Federal indictment level. Your assumption that they only did it to stall and really do nothing would mean that charges against them could be filed for obstruction of justice. Do you really think that they are that stupid?

    No, they were attempting to determine the truth of Michael Vick's statements to them. There is a difference. And yes, it does have a bearing on the NFL not taking action prior to when they did.

    You think that the other defendants are free? If you consider free being under 24 hour surveillance by the US Marshall service to be FREE, then you clearly don't understand the definition.

    Actually, if you had read FTW's post, its a Pre-sentencing report. And its read by the judge and its the guidelines that they recommend be followed for sentencing.

    Considering that Vick's plea has NOT been accepted yet then the NFL is correct for not having done anything. Because they needed to see the extent of what the charges were that Vick agreed to. After Monday, the NFL WILL do something because Vick will be ON RECORD as having pled guilty to the charges brought against him. Until that is official, the league can't do anything because of a potential backlash from the Union and lawsuits from such imbecilic associations like the ACLU and NAACP.

    Hmm... so, in other words, there is no way you could have possibly taken Schefter's words out of context? And, you want us to believe your take without offering up that piece by Schefter so we can make our own determination.. Got it. Sorry, but I'll pass. Your over-reaction to the NFL's actions to this point has taken away from your credibility.

    If you think that the league will do nothing. Great. Its your opinion. One that you have now gladly shared with everyone. Considering what Gooddell has doled out this year, you'd be stupid to bet that Gooddell does nothing.


    The union hasn't said BOO because the NFL is treating it the way they should. Letting the government handle the issue and not coming to a decision before Vick has been confirmed as guilty. Once Vick has officially pled guilty and its been entered into record, the League can come down on Vick without the Union really having much say.

    I haven't watched the talking heads nor do I put ANY weight in their opinions because they don't know how Gooddell will react. No one knows. My guess is that Vick, at the absolute minimum, will face a 3-5 year ban. And that ban COULD and SHOULD be a lifetime ban.

    There are the gambling charges that could still be filed AND there is the IRS who could bring Tax evasion charges against Vick. Those don't have to be filed with this case. Nor should they be.

    Oh, and right or wrong, people have coddled athletes for as long as I can remember. It has something to do with not being able to do what those athletes do and being in awe of those athletes when they are performing those feats. So, just by virtue of the fact you watch football, one could say that you enabled Vick indirectly through your support of the game.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2007
  20. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Pro Bowl Player

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    Re: Vick accepts plea deal


    Summary of the facts (p 15)
    Section 4- "Most of the " bad Newz Kennels" operations and gambling monies were provided by Vick."
    He didn't place side bets but he funded the dog fights and gambling part if I read it correctly. It is parsing words
    to say he was not involved in the gambling aspect of the dogfights.
     
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