Ups and Downs for Game 3

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Ups and Downs for Game 3

Tom Brady denies NFL Network report on WRs - ESPN Boston

If Tom Brady had real pull with the Patriots organization, and used it, Wes Welker would still be a member of the team.

That is if you think it was up to the Patriots, I think Welker's agent had a lot to do with his exit.

Also what makes you so sure Brady thought so highly of keeping Welker? Brady never won a super bowl with Welker maybe he thought it was time for something different or maybe he wanted to get through the rebuilding of the receivers now instead of in his final 2-3 NFL seasons.

 

[Fencer]

The personnel people's views are heavily affected by the coaches'.
The coaches' views are heavily affected by Brady's.

That's Brady's power and influence over receiver personnel -- it comes through the ordinary processes of practice, game planning and play. There's no need for him to be directly involved in the personnel decision processes as well, and there are plenty of reasons to insulate him from them.

 

[Deus Irae]

That is if you think it was up to the Patriots, I think Welker's agent had a lot to do with his exit.

Also what makes you so sure Brady thought so highly of keeping Welker? Brady never won a super bowl with Welker maybe he thought it was time for something different or maybe he wanted to get through the rebuilding of the receivers now instead of in his final 2-3 NFL seasons.

Have you been drinking?

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Ups and Downs for Game 3

Have you been drinking?

Just a 12 pack :beer:

 

[Deus Irae]

That is if you think it was up to the Patriots, I think Welker's agent had a lot to do with his exit.

Of course it was up to the Patriots.

"Specifically, both sides are clear that the Patriots made one offer to Wes Welker since the prior negotiations ended in July 2012," the statement read. "Both sides also agree that this two-year offer came just hours before the start of free agency despite discussions that began at the NFL combine. Moreover, this lone offer was presented as a 'take it or leave it offer.' When we asked if there was room for structural changes, we were told no. We made a counter offer for the same term and same maximum dollar amount as their offer and it was rejected. We inquired if any of the offer's components were negotiable and were told no. This refusal to actually negotiate made it easy to reject the Patriots offer. Nevertheless, when we received the Denver Broncos' offer, Wes personally talked to Mr. Kraft to give the Patriots the opportunity to match it. The Patriots rejected this opportunity and Wes signed with the Denver Broncos."

Wes Welker's agency says New England Patriots made "take it or leave it" offer - ESPN Boston

"Wes Welker, just to be very clear, was our first choice to be with the team," he said in a question-and-answer session with reporters that became testy at one point. "When free agency came, and his agents kept on insisting on a very high number that was beyond our number, we had to go work alternatives. Our second alternative was Danny Amendola. He had offers from other teams. So we made a judgment that Wes unfortunately probably wouldn't be with us. We made this commitment to Amendola.

"Wednesday, I personally got a call from Wes and he told me about this offer from Denver. He called Bill [Belichick] as well. We met and we chatted. We have a lot of people, we've committed a lot of money to this inside position  you have Gronk [Rob Gronkowski], you have [Aaron] Hernandez, you have Danny [Amendola] now  it was just unfortunately a little bit too late.

New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft blames agents for Wes Welker's exit - ESPN Boston

Both sides agree that Welker gave the Patriots a chance to match the Broncos offer, and that the Patriots declined.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, these were your expectations, not those of Brady and Belichick. I disagreed with the optimistic assessments in May, in June and July. I disagreed with your approach toward veterans and your counting on kids then and now. I disagreed with your overly optimistic medical predictions then and now. You are certainly entitled to your view that everyone was counting on Gronkowski and Ballard for Game One and that there were no concerns about depth in May.

I recall Kraft saying (after the Welker debacle) that Brady does not run this organization. Kraft counts on a lot of folks for business advice, not Tom Brady. Brady (like Bledsoe before him) is like a son to Mr Kraft, not a business advisor. As far as the football decisions, Mr Kraft rarely gets involved; he leaves that to Belichick. Sometimes, Casserio or Jonathan need to get involved, but not Mr Kraft. There is no question the Brady well understands that he works for Josh, his OC and his quarterback coach. Brady is absoultely fine with that. Personally, I would like Tommy to have a but more say than he does in personnel matters. However, Kraft's system has worked well for 20 years.

Let us agree to disagree.

You don’t think Tom Brady has influence in the Patriots organization? I disagree, I would say outside of Belichick and even that is close Tom Brady has more clout with the Kraft’s than anyone.

As far as personnel decisions I am sure that the decision was made to either rebuild the receiving core now with Brady at age 36 or wait 2-3 more years when Welker and Lloyd were retired and do it with a 38-39 year old Tom Brady, logic says it makes sense to do it now and allow the later years to be easier.

In addition to that Brady much like Belichick and the rest of us likely assumed he’d be entering week 1 with:

X WR – Aaron Dobson a 6’3 210 Lbs. receiver who runs a 4.40 40 yard dash.
Z WR – Danny Amendola a younger more athletic slot receiver than Wes Welker.
Y TE – Rob Gronkowski the best tight end in the world.
Flex TE – Aaron Hernandez a top 5 tight end in the NFL capable of playing inside and outside.

On the bench

WR – Donald Jones a 25 year old solid NFL receiver capable of playing all 3 receiver positions.
WR – Josh Boyce a rookie with 4.30 speed and game-breaker potential.
WR – Julian Edelman a solid receiver capable of making plays in space playing out of the slot.
TE – Jake Ballard an up and coming tight end before his injury in the SB.

Add that to the stable of running backs that include Ridley, Vereen, Blount and Bolden and I don’t think anyone including Brady was overwhelmingly concerned with the personnel at the start of OTA’s in May.

Brady is the face of this franchise, your mentality is here is simplified beyond the reality of how modern day sports are run. The thought that he is just another player or slightly more than just another player is obscene and that’s putting it lightly, he is as influential to this franchise as anyone who has ever walked through the doors of Gillette stadium.

 

[Fencer]

Both sides agree that Welker gave the Patriots a chance to match the Broncos offer, and that the Patriots declined.

Right. But what the Patriots did not have was a chance to pay Welker at Bronco rates WITHOUT also signing Amendola.

Ironically -- if they knew they weren't going to have Hernandez, they might have found paying both Welker and Amendola to be more appealing.

 

[supafly]

New England Patriots: Picked-up pieces from 2nd-half review - ESPN Boston

Reiss also thinks Wilfork played well. Perhaps I was overreacting to a couple of plays early.

I think several factors may have contributed to this misconception, which include the following:

--starting the season against 2 QB's who had the ability to move around quite a lot and posed some unknown challenges

--kicking off the season with 2 games in a 100 hour period, which may have been enough to make the big man quite tired

--strong play from the NYJ offensive line on TNF

There was definitely some "off" play from Wilfork at times, however I believe that it was somewhat exaggerated due to these reasons. We'll have to keep an eye on it moving forward, but I think he'd have been limited down the stretch in the 4th quarter yesterday, along with some limited practice sessions if he had been injured to any real degree.

 

[Oswlek]

Ironically -- if they knew they weren't going to have Hernandez, they might have found paying both Welker and Amendola to be more appealing.

I don't think it is ironic at all, just something you could take to the bank. If Hernandez had the courtesy to whack someone a few months earlier, Wes would still be a Patriot.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Yeah -- that's the Alanis definition of irony, not the actual definition.