Ups and Downs for Game 3

[Oswlek]

Its pretty great against a top back.
3.6 against your schedule puts you near the top of the league and 4.0 is average.
This was against a top flight RB. I think holding an allpro back on a team that wants to emphasize the run to 58 yards and 3.6 until garbage time qualifies as great.

Damn skippy. The run D was very good until garbage time.

I know he caught 2 touchdowns and I don’t want to discount that but I am not nearly as up on Thompkins after today as I am for Dobson. Thompkins caught just 3 of his 7 targets which means on the season he has been targeted 28 times and has 9 receptions, that is a 32.14% target to reception rate, in comparison Dobson was targeted 10 times for 7 receptions and despite his struggles in week 2 (his first game) has at least a 50% target to reception rate. Personally I think Thompkins is a nice story and a lot of us want to see him succeed, those who hold him in higher regard as a player and in terms of importance than Aaron Dobson are way off base in my opinion.

Down:

• Sudfeld – He was over hyped in the preseason, he has been downright awful since week 2 of the preseason, he can't block, he can’t get open and he can’t even knock down a ball to prevent an interception, honestly I have been holding back saying this for a while but I think he should be cut and signed to the practice squad.

• Josh McDaniel’s – this guys play calling has been suspect all season, he puts the team in 3rd down situations far often, and is trying to work players that do not fit into this offense into it.

Can't agree with these.

KT is the top threat and was covered regularly by Revis, at least on the snaps I saw. It also should be noted that, since the Buffalo game, he's missed on only one catchable ball. The comp% not only doesn't tell the whole story, it tells an erroneous one in this case.

Considering truly terrible people like Mulligan are what are out there at TE, who do you replace Sudfeld with? The guy is a rookie who demonstrated impressive skills in his first camp. Expectations were overblown, but his performance wasn't. He is precisely the type of developmental body you want on the roster.

This is also a very strange comment:

he can’t even knock down a ball to prevent an interception

He fell down on the same turf that had plenty of other Pats on roller skates and the interception yesterday wasn't his fault (I don't even think he was the real target, frankly. The pass had no chance of hitting him even if there were no defenders on the field.) What exactly are you saying here, other than hyperbole?

If you want to blame anyone for the offensive struggles, start with the OL and WRs against the Jets and Brady yesterday. What does McD having anything to do with it?

 

[Brady6]

I only noticed it once, but it looked like Revis was on Thompkins. Did anyone see if Revis was on him all game?

I saw Revis on Thompkins and Dobson yesterday, mostly Thompkins though. Who he was covering aside Revis did not look like the Jets Revis, he seemed disinterested and blah.

 

[Rob0729]

I saw Revis on Thompkins and Dobson yesterday, mostly Thompkins though. Who he was covering aside Revis did not look like the Jets Revis, he seemed disinterested and blah.

Revis was actually beaten by Bolden on the go route which Bolden for some unknown reason just gave up on the run. Revis doesn't seem right, but he clearly is not a fit for the zone defense the Bucs are running.

He didn't really follow anyone. He just played the man who lined up opposite him and just maintained his zone. A waste of his talent.

 

[Brady6]

Damn skippy. The run D was very good until garbage time.



Can't agree with these.

KT is the top threat and was covered regularly by Revis, at least on the snaps I saw. It also should be noted that, since the Buffalo game, he's missed on only one catchable ball. The comp% not only doesn't tell the whole story, it tells an erroneous one in this case.

Considering truly terrible people like Mulligan are what are out there at TE, who do you replace Sudfeld with? The guy is a rookie who demonstrated impressive skills in his first camp. Expectations were overblown, but his performance wasn't. He is precisely the type of developmental body you want on the roster.

This is also a very strange comment:



He fell down on the same turf that had plenty of other Pats on roller skates and the interception yesterday wasn't his fault (I don't even think he was the real target, frankly. The pass had no chance of hitting him even if there were no defenders on the field.) What exactly are you saying here, other than hyperbole?

If you want to blame anyone for the offensive struggles, start with the OL and WRs against the Jets and Brady yesterday. What does McD having anything to do with it?

McDaniel's is following up a first down incompletion with a second down run which consistently puts us in third and longer than 2 situations. That is not an ideal situation for a team relying on rookies and a seventh round converted QB as it's receivers. His obsession with playing from the I-formation and having players like Develin and Blount on the field over Ridley or Bolden is handcuffing the offense. Just my opinion but I haven't been impressed.

 

[Brady6]

Revis was actually beaten by Bolden on the go route which Bolden for some unknown reason just gave up on the run. Revis doesn't seem right, but he clearly is not a fit for the zone defense the Bucs are running.

He didn't really follow anyone. He just played the man who lined up opposite him and just maintained his zone. A waste of his talent.

No he isn't a fit at all, neither is Gholston for that matter, which makes me curious to why Tampa would invest so heavily in 2 players who have played in man schemes throughout their careers.

 

[Oswlek]

McDaniel's is following up a first down incompletion with a second down run which consistently puts us in third and longer than 2 situations. That is not an ideal situation for a team relying on rookies and a seventh round converted QB as it's receivers. His obsession with playing from the I-formation and having players like Develin and Blount on the field over Ridley or Bolden is handcuffing the offense. Just my opinion but I haven't been impressed.

Every team in the NFL follows up first down incompletes with runs, usually with poor results. I agree that it is a questionable practice, but NE probably does it less than most other teams.

I also can't agree with your comment about his "obsession." McD is one of the more creative OCs in the league. At this point, there are so many new, moving parts to the offense that they don't know what they are good at yet. What you are seeing is them doing trial runs on different formations.

 

[State]

No he isn't a fit at all, neither is Gholston for that matter, which makes me curious to why Tampa would invest so heavily in 2 players who have played in man schemes throughout their careers.

Gholston was the 126th player taken in last year's draft, which is at the end of the fourth round.

Did anyone see our second rounder from a couple of years ago, Tavon Wilson, in anything other than ST? Nope.

 

[mgteich]

You guys just won't believe that NEM is back.

If Brady had executed better, the team would have won by a couple of more touchdowns. And no, I'm not questioning Brady. He did well enough, just not a good day.

Josh is handicapping the offense. ROLF (just my opinion)

McDaniel's is following up a first down incompletion with a second down run which consistently puts us in third and longer than 2 situations. That is not an ideal situation for a team relying on rookies and a seventh round converted QB as it's receivers. His obsession with playing from the I-formation and having players like Develin and Blount on the field over Ridley or Bolden is handcuffing the offense. Just my opinion but I haven't been impressed.

 

[mgteich]

Reiss' version: Ups and downs for the Patriots - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Mine:

Up
Dobson & Thompkins, obviously.

Gostowski -- kicked a perfect game.

Pass rush -- like last game, several sacks & pressures. I don't want to name one guy or two, as I think it's a whole-defense effort.

Bolden -- it wasn't perfect, but the guy produced, in a versatile way.

Talib -- another INT, and Jackson didn't produce too much in general before getting hurt.

Down
Wilfork -- presumably ailing. And in general the run defense was mediocre, even though it looked like the rest of the Front 7 played well.

Arrington -- looked bewildered in coverage of Williams.

I would add Hooman to the "ups". He is a blocking TE and did well.

Also, obviously Spikes was "up" compared to the first two games.

 

[condon84]

I thought the run D was great.
Martin is a good back and he was 16-58 before padding his stats in garbage time vs prevent.

What I've noticed with our run D more than usual is our DL penetrating instead of gap controlling. We seem to be a bit more susceptible to traps this year that what I recall in years past.

On the plus side, I think our defense has had more negative run plays than usual because of our DLs penetrating.

 

[mgteich]

This is a choice a defense makes.

What I've noticed with our run D more than usual is our DL penetrating instead of gap controlling. We seem to be a bit more susceptible to traps this year that what I recall in years past.

On the plus side, I think our defense has had more negative run plays than usual because of our DLs penetrating.

 

[Deus Irae]

After a slow start, I thought Josh Freeman played great for the Patriots.

 

[Oswlek]

After a slow start, I thought Josh Freeman played great for the Patriots.

He threw some nice balls in the first quarter, only to see the WRs drop two potential TDs, and was a mess from that point forward.

 

[BradyFTW!]

16-58 isn't terrible, but it also isn't great.

I don't recall a lot of short-yardage/goal-line/whatever plays of the sort that naturally depress YPC in many games.

15-68 is pretty good regardless, and against Doug Martin I'll definitely take it.

I agree that Wilfork seems off, though. He's not controlling the line of scrimmage like I'm used to; hopefully it's just some nagging injury that can be dealt with by giving him some time off in practice, and won't be a season-long concern.

 

[Deus Irae]

He threw some nice balls in the first quarter, only to see the WRs drop two potential TDs, and was a mess from that point forward.

I thought he became a quality player for the Patriots once Williams went down, and having Jackson go down was icing on the cake*. From that point on, he might as well have gone golfing.


Side note: Watching Dennard and Talib on the outside really helps to highlight just how bad the Patriots' CB play has been since the Asante/EHIII duo was broken up. The improvement at the CB position really gives the defense a much stronger base for becoming more creative, and more aggressive in the front 7.

 

[Harrisoned!]

My Ups:

1) Brandon Bolden. Yes, he gave up on a route. He also had 10 touches for over 100 yards. That is a damn good day in your first day back

2) Alfonzo Dennard/Aqib Talib. It helped that Jackson had to sit most of the game, but these two smothered the Bucs' WRs. Even when Jackson was in there, Talib was all over him but VJax just made some great adjustments.

3) Josh McDaniels. Unlike the earlier poster, I actually thought this was a great game by McD. He found passes from the 2nd quarter onward that got the ball out of Brady's hand quickly and into short/intermediate areas where the young WRs could make plays. We ended up 36/33 pass/run, which is about as balanced as you can get. Yes it was skewed by late runs, but overall I felt they were fairly willing to run it when the Bucs weren't jamming the line.

Down:

1) Brady. Missed Dobson a couple times, missed an easy-breezy TD on play-action when he instead threw to a covered Sudfeld and then threw a pick in the red zone on third down. That said, it was solid improvement over the first two games. We'll need Vintage Brady to win any of the next five games (@ ATL, @ CIN, vs. NO, @ NYJ). No gimme's there.

2) Dan Connolly/Ryan Wendell. Spence and McCoy really took advantage of these two, and they also gave up a sack to Adrian Clayborn on a stunt. Most of the best running by the team came off-tackle rather than up the middle. We really need these two to hold up in protection - Brady is at his worst with pressure in his face.

3) Kyle Arrington. Have no idea why they tried him outside in the first half. Dennard just seems way more natural as an outside corner and Arrington is clearly better-suited for the nickel. Logan Ryan seemed to get a good bit of run in the second half as well.

 

[Brady6]

Every team in the NFL follows up first down incompletes with runs, usually with poor results. I agree that it is a questionable practice, but NE probably does it less than most other teams.

I also can't agree with your comment about his "obsession." McD is one of the more creative OCs in the league. At this point, there are so many new, moving parts to the offense that they don't know what they are good at yet. What you are seeing is them doing trial runs on different formations.

Honestly I lack the same admiration for Josh McDaniel’s as you do, I feel the offense runs best when Brady is making the calls at the line, I appreciate his desire to have a more balanced offense but putting players like Blount, Hooman, Mulligen, and worst of all Develin onto the field all at once is an absolute joke, and just like the first 2-3 game of last season we have struggled offensively as Brady and Belichick attempt to humor McDaniel’s as he attempts to implement some foolish game plans. By week 4 or 5 Brady will be sick of dealing with the nonsense and get back to doing what he wants and Belichick will support him.

 

[condon84]

This is a choice a defense makes.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer it. It helps our pass rush and plays to Kelly's strength.

 

[Oswlek]

Honestly I lack the same admiration for Josh McDaniel’s as you do, I feel the offense runs best when Brady is making the calls at the line, I appreciate his desire to have a more balanced offense but putting players like Blount, Hooman, Mulligen, and worst of all Develin onto the field all at once is an absolute joke, and just like the first 2-3 game of last season we have struggled offensively as Brady and Belichick attempt to humor McDaniel’s as he attempts to implement some foolish game plans. By week 4 or 5 Brady will be sick of dealing with the nonsense and get back to doing what he wants and Belichick will support him.

When Brady is making his calls at the line he is doing so under the guidance of the game plan that was constructed that week. McD is just as involved in those calls at the line as he is when he radios the plays in.

Not trying to be a jerk, but the bolded sentence is so far removed from reality I don't know how to even respond to it. You might want to read this thread put together by AWTE over on Patriots Planet.

Let's talk OC Bill O'Brien - Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards

 

[BradyFTW!]

16-58 isn't terrible, but it also isn't great.

I don't recall a lot of short-yardage/goal-line/whatever plays of the sort that naturally depress YPC in many games.

15-68 is pretty good regardless, and against Doug Martin I'll definitely take it.

I agree that Wilfork seems off, though. He's not controlling the line of scrimmage like I'm used to; hopefully it's just some nagging injury that can be dealt with by giving him some time off in practice, and won't be a season-long concern.