Upgrading the Defense

[Ring 6]

Andre Carter, Shaun Ellis, Gerard Warren, Albert Haynesworth. How about targeting unrestricted free agents under the age of 30? As for a better defense, the New England Patriots have four picks in the top 63 of the 2012 NFL Draft.

As I said the only player than contributed that could be considered old is Carter.
It a dishonest argument to say the defense is old because people who rarely play or were cut were old.

 

[Ring 6]

This is the major problem, needs at multiple positions on defense. The same problem the team has had for several years.

Your breakdown was accurate but 4 positions is a lot to upgrade in a single offseason. Most draft picks can't be relied upon and free agency is expensive.

I almost feel like saying "Screw it, go balls out on offense". Score 500 points and hope the defense can be average. It almost worked this year.

You don't need allpro players.
It isn't hard to upgrade Kyle Love, James Iheigbo, Kyle Arrington and nobody in one off season

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The defense did its job in the Superbowl. They were left out to dry in that 1st quarter and still played very tough.
The Patriots should have won if their defense held the Giants to 21.

 

[ATippett56]

dude, wtf are you talking about?

the post you wrote, which I quoted, said the following:

"Andre Carter, Shaun Ellis, Gerard Warren, Albert Haynesworth. How about targeting unrestricted free agents under the age of 30?"

Andy Johnson stated the only defensive player on the New England Patriots roster over the age of 30 was Andre Carter. I pointed out three other defensive players who were on the New England Patriots roster this season over the age of thirty.

I'm quite sure the patriots will draft players the same as every year --- I don't know what that has to do with your request that they target unrestricted free agents under the age of 30.

Shaun Ellis, Gerard Warren, Albert Haynesworth were not difference makers for the New England Patriots defense. Instead of ancient dinosaurs like Shaun Ellis and Gerard Warren, how about targeting someone younger?

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is the major problem, needs at multiple positions on defense. The same problem the team has had for several years.

Your breakdown was accurate but 4 positions is a lot to upgrade in a single offseason. Most draft picks can't be relied upon and free agency is expensive.

It is possible. The 2002 defense was in need in multiple areas and they landed Ty Poole, Geno Wilson, Ted Washington, Ty Warren, Asante, Rosie Colvin and Rodney Harrison.

I don't think we'll see that kind of haul in one offseason ever again but based on Andy's recommendations, which I agree 100% with, grabbing a 3-4 DE, OLB and a couple athletic cover-guys and a veteran SS is very possible.

I almost feel like saying "Screw it, go balls out on offense". Score 500 points and hope the defense can be average. It almost worked this year.

Exactly. I think it is very possible that the offense will be more explosive next year.

Resigning Branch, WW, a field stretching WR, Ridley and Vereen making plays and Waters and Vollmer playing well is all this team needs.

My fear is that the franchise tag $$ WW gets might impede the teams ability to land some top-level talent on defense. We'll see.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy Johnson stated the only defensive player on the New England Patriots roster over the age of 30 was Andre Carter. I pointed out three other defensive players who were on the New England Patriots roster this season over the age of thirty.

No I did not.
I stated the only SIGNIFICANT player on the defense that could be considered old was Carter.
That is a fact. None of those guys were close to significant, all being on the being forYOUNGER players playing ahead of them.

 

[Ring 6]

The defense did its job in the Superbowl. They were left out to dry in that 1st quarter and still played very tough.
The Patriots should have won if their defense held the Giants to 21.

So when the other team has the ball down 3 on the 12 yard line for their final drive of the game it isnt the defenses job to stop them?

So your argument is that its the offenses job to ensure we don't need to have a defense?

And those 21 points also include long time consuming drives that limited the offenses opportunities to score. That is as much a factor in what the offense can do as your belief that the offense is required to put the game away so the defense never has to stop anyone.

 

[ATippett56]

As I said the only player than contributed that could be considered old is Carter.
It a dishonest argument to say the defense is old because people who rarely play or were cut were old.

Quite frankly, a defensive house cleaning is in order. As of today, the only players I would retain for the 2012 New England Patriots defense are as follows:

3-4 DE - Deaderick, Pryor
3-4 NT - Wilfork, Love, Brace
3-4 DE - 2012 First Round Draft Pick

3-4 OLB - 2012 First Round Draft Pick, Ninkovich, Cunningham?, Markell Carter?
3-4 ILB - Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, Tarpinian

CB - Arrington, Dowling, McCourty, Moore
SS - Chung, [Barrett? or Lockett? or Ihedigbo (the last resort)]
FS - a complete abomination

The New England Patriots need to expend a second round draft pick on a free safety or cornerback to free safety conversion (refer to Eugene Wilson, circa 2003).

 

[eom]

you guys talk about multiple positions like every team in the league isn't trying to improve their teams at multiple positions.

we just lost a close superbowl with the youngsters we have now, have double the normal picks in the first 2 rounds, and plenty more cap space than many other teams.

what's the problem?

 

[Ring 6]

Quite frankly, a defensive house cleaning is in order. As of today, the only players I would retain for the 2012 New England Patriots defense are as follows:

3-4 DE - Deaderick, Pryor
3-4 NT - Wilfork, Love, Brace
3-4 DE - 2012 First Round Draft Pick

3-4 OLB - 2012 First Round Draft Pick, Ninkovich, Cunningham?, Markell Carter?
3-4 ILB - Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, Tarpinian

CB - Arrington, Dowling, McCourty, Moore
SS - Chung, [Barrett? or Lockett? or Ihedigbo (the last resort)]
FS - a complete abomination

The New England Patriots need to expend a second round draft pick on a free safety or cornerback to free safety conversion (refer to Eugene Wilson, circa 2003).

You are talking about adding 3 significant players. I dont think thats a housecleaning.
In fact, I would add a 4th at corner to compete among McCourty and Dowling as LCB, RCB and nickel.

 

[ATippett56]

You are talking about adding 3 significant players. I dont think thats a housecleaning.
In fact, I would add a 4th at corner to compete among McCourty and Dowling as LCB, RCB and nickel.

The defensive purge is somewhat significant:

Andre Carter
Mark Anderson
Alex Silvestro
Shaun Ellis
Gerard Warren
Gary Guyton
Niko Koutivides
Nate Jones
Antwaun Molden

The question then becomes how many players on the 53 man roster do you allot strictly for special teams?

Matt Slater
Sergio Brown
Tracy White
Malcolm Williams

 

[Ring 6]

The defensive purge is somewhat significant:

Andre Carter MAY STAY
Mark Anderson MAY STAY
Alex Silvestro NOT ON THE DEFENSE
Shaun Ellis BARELY PLAYED
Gerard Warren BARELY PLAYED
Gary Guyton INACTIVE EVERY GAME
Niko Koutivides S/T ONLY
Nate Jones S/T ONLY
Antwaun Molden RARELY PLAYED

Not really. See my comments next to each. Backups who rarely played are routine turnover

The question then becomes how many players on the 53 man roster do you allot strictly for special teams?

Matt Slater
Sergio Brown
Tracy White
Malcolm Williams

In terms of building a team to go to camp, as many as you can get your hands on, then it shakes out from there.

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

Could have signed Jason Babin with the money they gave away to Shaun Ellis and Ochocinco.

Andre Carter+Jason Babin+Mark Anderson? Boy does that sound good.

 

[Ring 6]

Could have signed Jason Babin with the money they gave away to Shaun Ellis and Ochocinco.

Andre Carter+Jason Babin+Mark Anderson? Boy does that sound good.

Kind of hard to not sign 2 players you expect to be very helpful in order to get 3 at a position you can only play 1 in the base and 2 in the sub.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that it is NOT unusual to expect to pick up contributers in free agency, especially on defense (and at receiver).

Last year, Belichick added front-seven players Carter, Anderson, Ellis, Haynsworth, Warren, and White. I mention White because he played a lot (the whole first half of the SB). We got a lot reps and a lot of production from these players.

He also added Molden (when he beat out Butler in camp) and Ihedigbo, Obviously, we poster have been able to make little sense of cutting both Meriweather and Sanders in favor of the untested Brown and Barrett. Obviously, Belichick got this very wrong. However, it is the choice that was wrong, not the strategy of picking up players in free agency. Clearly, Belichick could ahve used some of the $6M cap excess on a safety to replace Sanders.

BOTTOM LINE
Belichick can indeed fill four positions between re-signs and free agency. Personally, I would like to pay the bucks and re-sign Anderson. I suspect that an old injured Carter may not appeal. I would also bring back Warren for the end of the bench. I would certainly bring back Ihedigbo and White.

This would still leave Belichick looking to free agency for DE's (to replace Carter and Ellis) and a defensive back or two.

BTW, I think that Moore was a great find.

This is the major problem, needs at multiple positions on defense. The same problem the team has had for several years.

Your breakdown was accurate but 4 positions is a lot to upgrade in a single offseason. Most draft picks can't be relied upon and free agency is expensive.

I almost feel like saying "Screw it, go balls out on offense". Score 500 points and hope the defense can be average. It almost worked this year.

 

[eom]

Obviously, we poster have been able to make little sense of cutting both Meriweather and Sanders in favor of the untested Brown and Barrett. Obviously, Belichick got this very wrong. .

obviously, what's obvious to you isn't obvious to the rest of the world.

 

[cstjohn17]

I agree that it is NOT unusual to expect to pick up contributers in free agency, especially on defense (and at receiver).

Contributors yes, finding starters is more expensive. It was suggested that they Patriots need to address:
34 DE
34 OLB
CB
S

This is before they replace their two top ends (Carter and Anderson).

It could happen but I think things will look pretty much the same.

 

[bucky]

The defensive purge is somewhat significant:

Andre Carter
Mark Anderson
Alex Silvestro
Shaun Ellis
Gerard Warren
Gary Guyton
Niko Koutivides
Nate Jones
Antwaun Molden

With exception of Mark Anderson, you're saying the same thing that the OP is saying. Except for some reason you're turning it into an argument.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The defensive purge is somewhat significant:

Andre Carter
Mark Anderson
Alex Silvestro
Shaun Ellis
Gerard Warren
Gary Guyton
Niko Koutivides
Nate Jones
Antwaun Molden

The question then becomes how many players on the 53 man roster do you allot strictly for special teams?

Matt Slater
Sergio Brown
Tracy White
Malcolm Williams

I would put Jones, Koutivades and Silvesto in the ST category.

I think we can bring back Anderson and Warren.

Which means replacing only Carter, Molden, Ellis and Guyton.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I would put Jones, Koutivades and Silvesto in the ST category.

I think we can bring back Anderson and Warren.

Which means replacing only Carter, Molden, Ellis and Guyton.

g. warren can probably be brought back for that vet minimum. Would like to bring Anderson back too. Don't see an option on the roster or free agency at olb unless it's Anderson. Don't want to count on a rookie. If we even draft one. Unless you think we'll get Mario Williams. Then I'd let him walk. Ellis didn't re-up with the Jets because they only offered vet minimum. He won't take that to stay. Andre Carter had a serious injury. I doubt he signs with anyone until July.

My idea would be to keep M. Anderson. Sign D. Goldson - S and K. Langford de. Is 4m each enough? That's 12m. Need rest for Welker, Love, Connolly and Slater. Draft in order de, olb, s with our top 3 picks. Fletcher Cox, olb(Vinny Curry, Chandler Jones
or Andre Branch prob after slight trade down) and Iloka from Boise St.