Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[Wozzy]

It's amazing people still question how the Pats were in such bad cap situation by 2020 given they had hardly any big contracts and that's because they filled their roster with so many damn mid tier veteran players as a result of so many bad drafts.

You think a championship contender pushing to win a ring every year for five years employed proven vets by accident?

Good grief you BB haters are ridiculous.

 

[XLIX]

You think a championship contender pushing to win a ring every year for five years employed proven vets by accident?

When you draft so poorly, you really have no choice but to go after vets, don't you?

 

[Wozzy]

When you draft so poorly, you really have no choice but to go after vets, don't you?

No, when you contend for championships with a 41 year old QB you go after established vets. That's why they didn't draft anyone at all in 2017 and only started using their hoard of draft picks when they were running out of money and cap space.

One bad draft class in 2019 isn't why Tom left, he told Howard Stern he knew he was gone before that season started.

Veterans know how to win, they don't have to be taught.

 

[RIpats88]

No, when you contend for championships with a 41 year old QB you go after established vets. That's why they didn't draft anyone at all in 2017 and only started using their hoard of draft picks when they were running out of money and cap space.

One bad draft class in 2019 isn't why Tom left, he told Howard Stern he knew he was gone before that season started.

Veterans know how to win, they don't have to be taught.

huh? so hightower, mccourty, Gronk, edelman, jones, wilfork were all vets they went after to contend for championships? they built those contenders through good drafts.

its abit of revisionist history to act like they built their contenders through overpaying vets. You overpay vets when you have several poor drafts because you don't listen to your scouts or draft special teamers ranked for the 7th round in the 2nd round who end up as busts.

its why bill overpaid vets again in 2021. you need to fill the holes some way.

 

[Wozzy]

huh? so hightower, mccourty, Gronk, edelman, jones, wilfork were all vets they went after to contend for championships? they built those contenders through good drafts.

its abit of revisionist history to act like they built their contenders through overpaying vets. You overpay vets when you have several poor drafts because you don't listen to your scouts or draft special teamers ranked for the 7th round in the 2nd round who end up as busts.

its why bill overpaid vets again in 2021. you need to fill the holes some way.

We’re not talking about the entire history of the Patriots under BB, we’re talking about the team from 2014-2019 when they “went all in” at the end of Tom’s run, deviating from their typical method of operation and why that run ended.

 

[State]

It’s hard to argue with taking defensive players in the first three rounds of the draft. Belichick is a defensive genius.

But remember we had the second oldest offense last year and mightily struggled in red zone opportunities and in third down. The statistics show that.

Juju and Gesicki will help. Maybe a lot. Will it be enough?

Having a good to great defense, vastly improved special teams, and a mediocre to good offense will make us competitive. But in a loaded AFC East it may not be enough.

 

[XLIX]

No, when you contend for championships with a 41 year old QB you go after established vets.

Newsflash: You can still contend for championships by drafting well.

Veterans know how to win, they don't have to be taught.

This statement is borderline too ridiculous to dignify with a response. Having low priced talent (by drafting well) is a huge advantage to winning.

But no, really... I am glad we drafted N'Keal Harry instead of Deebo Samuel. That gave us a chance to trade him to Chicago and replace him with a veteran who knows how to win.

 

[Wozzy]

Newsflash: You can still contend for championships by drafting well.

Agreed, it’s usually a mix of vets and a few young players mixed in. Also the majority of rookies struggle then develop into great players, it’s few and far between those that can step in and dominate on day one.

This statement is too ridiculous to dignify with a response.

It’s based on factual evidence.

 

[XLIX]

It’s based on factual evidence.

Then please provide your factual evidence.

 

[patfanken]

I can't believe this is a topic that was worth 3 pages let alone 38. Take a deep breath and think about the basic premise of Curran's take. A SIX time superbowl winning coach was on the "hotseat" LESS than a year after winning ANOTHER superbowl. How ridiculous a notion can that be......and WHY are we still talking about it. Move on. Everything that needed to be said was already said THIRTY-FIVE pages ago.

 

[TheRainMaker]

FIFY

Rookies RARELY contribute to championships. Michel was an outlier in that regard. You look at the rosters of SB-winning teams 9or even the losers) and you'll rarely see more than a couple of rookies.

Add to that the fact that draft capital is greatly reduced on a long deep-run stretch of playoff years, add to that the literal THEFT of several high draft picks, add to that the sheer toll playing into late January/early February takes each year, and the Patriots last dynasty run becomes even more amazing.

No, it was correct the first time.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Then please provide your factual evidence.

It’s confidential

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is not that hard to figure out.

In 2020, the Patriots had a few years left with Brady as well as other aging vets (McCourty, Gilmore, Gronkowski, Edelman.)

In 2020 they had tight cap space. In 2021 they had an enormous amount of cap space.

They could have easily done what other teams like the Saints and Rams have done fir years, which is kick cap hits down the road while you have a championship roster.

Brady 2 yr extension with most of cash paid in 2021. Gronkowski market value with most cash deferred to 2021. Sign McCourty, Gilmore, etc., most cash paid in 2021 Trade high picks for proven veterans for 1-2 years or late season rentals.

OR

Do a real rebuild. Trade players for picks. Get younger.

BUT

They basically did the worst of both worlds. Re-sign vets, go into win now mode with thin roster and subpar QBs. Cap space in 2021 instead used for insanely jacked up mid-tier FAs, Jets style. Or in the case of Jonnu Smith, simply burn money.

What is so hard to figure out here? The org continues to overvalue their coaching abilities and the Pats are stuck and on the verge of creating another 3-4 similar years with a league leading amount of cap space next offseason and a possible extension for Andy Dalton’s nephew.

 

[Wozzy]

Then please provide your factual evidence.

That rookies generally don’t start or even if they do need time to eventually develop into great players?

What’s next, I have to provide evidence that water is wet and the sky is blue?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

This is not that hard to figure out.

In 2020, the Patriots had a few years left with Brady as well as other aging vets (McCourty, Gilmore, Gronkowski, Edelman.)

In 2020 they had tight cap space. In 2021 they had an enormous amount of cap space.

They could have easily done what other teams like the Saints and Rams have done fir years, which is kick cap hits down the road while you have a championship roster.

Brady 2 yr extension with most of cash paid in 2021. Gronkowski market value with most cash deferred to 2021. Sign McCourty, Gilmore, etc., most cash paid in 2021 Trade high picks for proven veterans for 1-2 years or late season rentals.

OR

Do a real rebuild. Trade players for picks. Get younger.

BUT

They basically did the worst of both worlds. Re-sign vets, go into win now mode with thin roster and subpar QBs. Cap space in 2021 instead used for insanely jacked up mid-tier FAs, Jets style. Or in the case of Jonnu Smith, simply burn money.

What is so hard to figure out here? The org continues to overvalue their coaching abilities and the Pats are stuck and on the verge of creating another 3-4 similar years with a league leading amount of cap space next offseason and a possible extension for Andy Dalton’s nephew.

So would they have won one more Super Bowl? Maybe but it would have been a Longshot and they would be in much worse shape now and probably for a while longer.

 

[Wozzy]

This is not that hard to figure out.

In 2020, the Patriots had a few years left with Brady as well as other aging vets (McCourty, Gilmore, Gronkowski, Edelman.)

In 2020 they had tight cap space. In 2021 they had an enormous amount of cap space.

They could have easily done what other teams like the Saints and Rams have done fir years, which is kick cap hits down the road while you have a championship roster.

Brady 2 yr extension with most of cash paid in 2021. Gronkowski market value with most cash deferred to 2021. Sign McCourty, Gilmore, etc., most cash paid in 2021 Trade high picks for proven veterans for 1-2 years or late season rentals.

OR

Do a real rebuild. Trade players for picks. Get younger.

BUT

They basically did the worst of both worlds. Re-sign vets, go into win now mode with thin roster and subpar QBs. Cap space in 2021 instead used for insanely jacked up mid-tier FAs, Jets style. Or in the case of Jonnu Smith, simply burn money.

What is so hard to figure out here? The org continues to overvalue their coaching abilities and the Pats are stuck and on the verge of creating another 3-4 similar years with a league leading amount of cap space next offseason and a possible extension for Andy Dalton’s nephew.

This is just plain wrong.

Brady was a free agent, so was DMC, Thuney was as well… Gronk retired.

And they had been kicking the cap can down the road already, that’s how they ended up last in available cap space entering 2020 with 11 starters or major contributors that needed to be re-signed or replaced including Brady.

The only reason they had cap space in 2021 is because they took a down year in 2020 to reset their cap. That money didn’t just appear out of nowhere.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is just plain wrong.

Brady was a free agent, so was DMC, Thuney was as well… Gronk retired.

And they had been kicking the cap can down the road already, that’s how they ended up last in available cap space entering 2020 with 11 starters or major contributors that needed to be re-signed or replaced including Brady.

The only reason they had cap space in 2021 is because they took a down year in 2020 to reset their cap. That money didn’t just appear out of nowhere.

There is no such thing as "reset their cap.". It's a fake concept you've created.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

So would they have won one more Super Bowl? Maybe but it would have been a Longshot and they would be in much worse shape now and probably for a while longer.

Before the oddsmakers realized Brady was leaving, just after the 2019 season, they had the 3rd best 2020 SB future odds. How would they be in worse shape? They don't have anything close to a loaded roster or extra draft assets now.

 

[Grogan14]

This is not that hard to figure out.

In 2020, the Patriots had a few years left with Brady as well as other aging vets (McCourty, Gilmore, Gronkowski, Edelman.)

In 2020 they had tight cap space. In 2021 they had an enormous amount of cap space.

They could have easily done what other teams like the Saints and Rams have done fir years, which is kick cap hits down the road while you have a championship roster.

Brady 2 yr extension with most of cash paid in 2021. Gronkowski market value with most cash deferred to 2021. Sign McCourty, Gilmore, etc., most cash paid in 2021 Trade high picks for proven veterans for 1-2 years or late season rentals.

OR

Do a real rebuild. Trade players for picks. Get younger.

BUT

They basically did the worst of both worlds. Re-sign vets, go into win now mode with thin roster and subpar QBs. Cap space in 2021 instead used for insanely jacked up mid-tier FAs, Jets style. Or in the case of Jonnu Smith, simply burn money.

What is so hard to figure out here? The org continues to overvalue their coaching abilities and the Pats are stuck and on the verge of creating another 3-4 similar years with a league leading amount of cap space next offseason and a possible extension for Andy Dalton’s nephew.

You hit the nail right on the head. The planning since before Brady left has been atrocious. Totally reactive and not proactive. It has just been horrible management across the organization. Fail. No signs that things are heading in the right direction either.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is just plain wrong.

Brady was a free agent, so was DMC, Thuney was as well… Gronk retired.

And they had been kicking the cap can down the road already, that’s how they ended up last in available cap space entering 2020 with 11 starters or major contributors that needed to be re-signed or replaced including Brady.

The only reason they had cap space in 2021 is because they took a down year in 2020 to reset their cap. That money didn’t just appear out of nowhere.

Specifically which cap hits/contracts/trades for star players in win now mode cost them their space in 2020? Maybe Antonio Brown but the whole situation there was a disaster. They cheaped out and lost Blount and Amendola during their championship run in order to be fiscally responsible. They refused to pay Gronk market. The Gilmore deal was front loaded (which is why there was a dispute in 2021 when they'd already paid everything.). They traded Cooks back to recoup draft comp because they didn't want to pay him market. They nickled and dimed Jared Cook in 2019 and therefore lost him, then cried and blamed Gronk so the fans turned on him to cover for Bill.

I've asked you this before and we both know you're just smoke and mirrors.

They actually started the aggressive cap back loading in 2021, ironically, which is why they had little money this off-season despite major holes. They structured almost every deal (Judon, Henry, Smith, Agholor) that way.