Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Hindsight is glorious.


I wanted them to keep Brady for reasons other than any chance at a SB, but the idea that he would keep playing at such a high level for several more years surprised most people. And NO WAY the Pats could have put as good a team as Tampa was around him. They had gobs of blue-collar draft picks, two of the best WRs in the league, two good TEs and enough money (considering that they were willing to mortgage their future as they did) to bring in several more pieces.


Had the Patriots tried to do that, they almost certainly wouldn't have gotten a Superbowl anyway -too many holes to fill - and where would they be now?

Then why sign veteran, aging players? It isn’t hindsight as most of us were adamant at the time about it. It’s basic risk reward stuff. If you extend him and he’s still great, you have football’s most valuable player for a few more years. If he isn’t, well, it’s not like you had Trevor Lawrence or Andrew Luck in your hands.

 

[50-yard-line]

Then why sign veteran, aging players? It isn’t hindsight as most of us were adamant at the time about it. It’s basic risk reward stuff. If you extend him and he’s still great, you have football’s most valuable player for a few more years. If he isn’t, well, it’s not like you had Trevor Lawrence or Andrew Luck in your hands.

If they didn't go after proven vets, there was NO WAY they were going back to the SB, while carrying 50m+ for Brady over those three years.

It was pretty clear in 2019 that Brady wanted nothing to do with rookie skill players. After the AB debacle, he was miserable and he didn't hide it.

 

[Chevy]

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

There were rumblings/leaks that Brady was no longer connecting with younger players, had lost his “Patriotness” and was bordering on a locker room problem.

Who won the Super Bowl in 2020?

Then the Patriots leak in 2021 they don’t want Stafford for similar reasons. Not coachable, a problem for Fat Matt, etc. I think they made a low ball offer for him but made it clear he wasn’t up to par when it comes to lofty Patriots intangibles.

Who won the Super Bowl in 2021?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If they didn't go after proven vets, there was NO WAY they were going back to the SB, while carrying 50m+ for Brady over those three years.

It hurts my brain to read this. Must. Use. Circular. Logic. To. Defend. Bill. I. Am. A. Good. Fan.

 

[50-yard-line]

It hurts my brain to read this. Must. Use. Circular. Logic. To. Defend. Bill. I. Am. A. Good. Fan.

I am not defending the Patriots for letting Brady go. I stated several times that I wanted them to keep him if possible. I think it was a grand mistake to let him break records and retire elsewhere ( I stil haven't gotten over Bobby Orr in a Black Hawks' jersey!).

I am thrilled that Brady got another ring, for Brady. Proved a lot about his place in history. I hope Bill gets one, too, but it's a harder climb for him with rebuilding a broken team, to prove his place in history, too.

Greatest player, greatest coach, and we got to watch them on our team for more than 20 years together.

You're the one stuck in binary thinking.

 

[borg]

There were rumblings/leaks that Brady was no longer connecting with younger players,

Rumblings including Brady icing out "playmakers" who did not sign on to a TB12 Sports Clinic yearly subscription.
Note: Antonio Brown was charged $100k while in Tampa.

 

[Ring 6]

Nope - the voiding was not optional. It was literally written into the contract. It was purely a cap management device. You see it everywhere now.

Had they not included the voidable years- the 13MM cap hit would have happened in 2019 and not 2020. You are literally making stuff up because what actually happened does not fit your dream.

Including the void years was absolutely opitional. They could have added non voidable years for the exact same cap effect. They had to be voidable because Brady demanded them to be, obviously because it 100% is to his advantage and 0% to the teams.

 

[XLIX]

Bill Belichick has consistently applied the logic that it is better to get rid of a guy a couple years too early rather than a couple years too late. And, because he is Bill Belichick, he won't make any special exceptions - not even when he had the greatest player of all time playing the most important position in sports.

Of course, if you apply Bill Belichick's logic to Bill Belichick..... well, let's just say Belichick the GM would fire Belichick the HC.

 

[Ring 6]

You treat people like that when you do not care about whether you want them around or not which just reinforces my point.

Nobody goes to their starting QB and says take this way below market 1 year deal and if not happy don't let the door hit you on the way out. That btw is exactly what the Pats did and the results were predictably what they wanted. Brady out and fans who will eat up anything the PR team feeds them thinking it was Brady's desire.

Treat people like what? You make assumptions and then act as if they are fact.

There is zero evidence that the patriots did that. Brady wanted to leave. I hate to break it to you but he never loved you.

 

[Ring 6]

The Team Bill narrative might have minimal plausibility except they simultaneously claim the Patriots knew they couldn’t win and needed to rebuild, and yet used the Brady savings to sign McCourty, Thuney (franchise, one year rental), Slater, and sCam. A bunch of win now veterans. Turned down trade offers for Gilmore. They thought they were hot **** in 2020 and thought they could still get 85% of TB12’s production with someone else because of the system and coaching. The rest of this is all revisionism.

In 2020 they thought they were still fringe championship contenders with a top 15 QB (hoping sCam was that) and they’d bring it all over the top with the 2021 massive free agency splash. They massively underestimated Brady, overestimated the impact of coaching, and are simply stupid for believing huge cap space should be used on free agency (even with the cap ceiling situation) rather than on backloading TB12s extension.

When they made those decisions they didn’t know numerous players would opt out.
The Patriots didn’t let Brady go, Brady left. They didn’t choose to keep those players instead of Brady they kept those players to be as competitive as possible, and then had numerous Covid opt outs.

The fact that they couldn’t have won if Brady stayed because they would have had to further degrade the roster isn’t a strategy , it’s a fact. The strategy after that happened was to retain the best players they could, why else would it be. Those are not at all inconsistent with each other.

 

[TommyD4207]

Having said that, I have no idea if Brady wanted to stay, nor does anyone else.

We actually do. Miami was stripped of a first-round pick, for tampering prior to the 2019 season.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I wonder how many more draft picks we could have gotten if we traded Gilmore (& others if possible) at the 2020 deadline instead of watching Little Billy Notgoat cling to Scam Newton & the Delusion of making the POs that year...?

The insider stories (I think Rapaport?) describe a delusional organization. Refusing to trade him in late 2020 for a high pick. Refusing to trade him in 2021 offseason for a second round pick knowing they couldn’t meet his terms. Ended up getting peanuts for him and then other GMs told this reporter they had no idea he was suddenly available and would have offered much more.

Worst handled trade besides Jimmy G where they could have had at least a one high first but instead traded him for a second rounder after ensuring everyone knew they wouldn’t entertain an offer so there was no bidding market. Then there’s Jacoby Brissett (a fringe NFL starter or at least one of the backups) for a #4 WR.

A second round pick for future Hall of Famer Chandler Jones.

They’re too smart to make the obvious (beneficial) trade.

 

[Grogan14]

If BB applies the “better to fire a guy a year too early than a year too late”

He would have fired himself as GM in 2019

 

[captain stone]

Bill Belichick has consistently applied the logic that it is better to get rid of a guy a couple years too early rather than a couple years too late. And, because he is Bill Belichick, he won't make any special exceptions - not even when he had the greatest player of all time playing the most important position in sports.

Of course, if you apply Bill Belichick's logic to Bill Belichick..... well, let's just say Belichick the GM would fire Belichick the HC.

Yep; or better still, vice-versa...

If BB applies the “better to fire a guy a year too early than a year too late”

He would have fired himself as GM in 2019.

Bingo... Kraft himself should've demanded it after the useless 2020 season.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It's amazing people still question how the Pats were in such bad cap situation by 2020 given they had hardly any big contracts and that's because they filled their roster with so many damn mid tier veteran players as a result of so many bad drafts.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The insider stories (I think Rapaport?) describe a delusional organization. Refusing to trade him in late 2020 for a high pick. Refusing to trade him in 2021 offseason for a second round pick knowing they couldn’t meet his terms. Ended up getting peanuts for him and then other GMs told this reporter they had no idea he was suddenly available and would have offered much more.

Horrible use of resources by Bill. Since he knew he wasn't going to keep Gilmore, he had the perfect opportunity to trade him during the 2020 season which many on this board were advocating.

Worst handled trade besides Jimmy G where they could have had at least a one high first but instead traded him for a second rounder after ensuring everyone knew they wouldn’t entertain an offer so there was no bidding market. Then there’s Jacoby Brissett (a fringe NFL starter or at least one of the backups) for a #4 WR.

John Lynch mentioned he was prepared to pay more for Jimmy. For only playing 1.5 quarters, he sure had a lot of hype.

A second round pick for future Hall of Famer Chandler Jones.

This was the first amateur hour trade.

 

[203Pat]

It hurts my brain to read this. Must. Use. Circular. Logic. To. Defend. Bill. I. Am. A. Good. Fan.

It is just painful to read at this point.

 

[50-yard-line]

It's amazing people still question how the Pats were in such bad cap situation by 2020 given they had hardly any big contracts and that's because they filled their roster with so many damn mid tier veteran players TO KEEP THE DYNASTY RUNNING TO THE VERY END.

FIFY

Rookies RARELY contribute to championships. Michel was an outlier in that regard. You look at the rosters of SB-winning teams 9or even the losers) and you'll rarely see more than a couple of rookies.

Add to that the fact that draft capital is greatly reduced on a long deep-run stretch of playoff years, add to that the literal THEFT of several high draft picks, add to that the sheer toll playing into late January/early February takes each year, and the Patriots last dynasty run becomes even more amazing.

 

[Wozzy]

The insider stories (I think Rapaport?) describe a delusional organization. Refusing to trade him in late 2020 for a high pick. Refusing to trade him in 2021 offseason for a second round pick knowing they couldn’t meet his terms. Ended up getting peanuts for him and then other GMs told this reporter they had no idea he was suddenly available and would have offered much more.

Worst handled trade besides Jimmy G where they could have had at least a one high first but instead traded him for a second rounder after ensuring everyone knew they wouldn’t entertain an offer so there was no bidding market. Then there’s Jacoby Brissett (a fringe NFL starter or at least one of the backups) for a #4 WR.

A second round pick for future Hall of Famer Chandler Jones.

They’re too smart to make the obvious (beneficial) trade.

The market determines trade compensation, not fan desire or hopes, not what a coach or GM thinks the player is worth… don’t be silly.